What the crap??? Please help!!!!! - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

67ChevyRedneck · 06-01-2007, 09:30 PM

Ok, so I was all geared up for getting a chunk of my Vintage Air install done this weekend.

A little background.

The motor is late 70's, early 80's vintage...somewhere around there.

The water pump is a long water pump, it has a 3 groove crank pulley and a 2 groove water pump pulley.

The alternator was on the passenger's side.

The plan:

Order vintage air's kit for a non air truck with air controller for a '72 pick-up.

I have a driver's side alternator mount off of a 72 truck.

I bought a short water pump today. I asked for one off of a '72 350.

I was going to swap the alternator and the water pump, and I had assumed I'd have a set-up very similar to a 1972 "air" truck.

The problem: As you can see in the pics below, the pulleys do not line up. The front pulley on the WP kinda lines up with the back pulley on the crank. Also, they basically touch each other! That can't be right.

The help part.... please help me figure out what the heck I need. It appears the water pump is also lower on the engine than the long pump was... is this right?

1st Q: Do I have the right water pump?

2nd Q: Do I have the right pulleys? It doesn't look right to me. If not, are they both incorrect or just one? By looking at it, it looks like I have the correct crank pulley and incorrect water pump pulley?
Edit: actually, looking again, maybe I have the wrong crank pulley????

If someone can give me some definite answer's on these things, I'll post a WTB in the proper forum.

Thank's so much all

Aarons72s · 06-01-2007, 09:36 PM

Yes right water pump. You will need shorter bolts to hold it in but I asome you are using the old long pump ones for mock up. Bottom pully is wrong but top one looks ok.I heard the bolt holes wont line up on the water pump if you use a long pump pully on a short pump and vise versa but it looks like the right one on the pump. Bottom pully is for a long pump. The stock short pump 3 groove crank pully goes as follows, 1st one is flush up against the balancer and used for alternator and water pump. Second groove is used for a/c and water pump, unused on non a/c and front groove is used for ps. So you need a stock 3 groove short water pump pully. You might see if someone has an extra one or you can get new chrome ones from summit, not sure on the diameter of the stock and summit ones. Oh as for your engine, what side is the dip stick on? dr side dipstick is 69-79 and passenger dipstick is 79-86. Hope this helps.

67ChevyRedneck · 06-01-2007, 09:42 PM

Sweet. Is it a little smaller too? Like I said the pulleys are literally almost touching! Is that normal/correct? I don't have any parts or junkyard trucks to look at. I tried to hit up local yards for parts a couple weeks ago and I can't find one nearby that has "older" stuff anymore. That and I can't ever seem to take time off from work

Thanks bud! I don't mean any offense, but can a couple more peeps verify this? My truck is "out of order" until I get this all sorted out and the Air kit installed (couple weeks??

)

I'll need to post a WTB for this stuff... factor in shipping time....

Oh well, I drove 'er around for about 2 hours today running errands/picking up new parts

Aarons72s · 06-01-2007, 09:47 PM

The crank pully should be about the diameter of the balancer.

67ChevyRedneck · 06-01-2007, 09:51 PM

Well, THAT part of it actually looks correct (it is about the same diameter.) So does that mean the wp pulley is wrong too? Or is it normal for them to be REAL close together (I mean like 3 sheets of paper close.)

I'll measure them tomorrow. I'm too pissed to pop the hood again

Aarons72s · 06-01-2007, 09:52 PM

Here are some pics of my 72 with a/c, the a/c pump was removed by po but all the other accesories are still there.

Aarons72s · 06-01-2007, 09:53 PM

Yah they are real close, about a belt width apart.

67ChevyRedneck · 06-01-2007, 09:55 PM

Awesome. I feel good enough about that to post a WTB. My waterpump looks to be correct.

If anyone else notices something's not right, don't be shy!

Aarons72s · 06-01-2007, 09:59 PM

Top pully on mine is about 6" diameter
Crank pully about 7" and I got an 8" balancer.
Went and tried to measure them as best I could in the dark.
There was about 3/4" space between upper and lower pullys.

67ChevyRedneck · 06-01-2007, 10:04 PM

Thanks so much. VERY nice of you!

I love this place

**70C10Toejam** · 06-01-2007, 10:43 PM

not to contradict prev. answers, but if you started with all pullys and brackets for a long waterpump, all you SHOULD need is the correct bracket for the A/C.

right now, you have a short waterpump with long waterpump pullys and prob. brackets (if they are different). It is much easier to find the long pump parts than the short pump parts. Chevy used the short ones from about '65 to '70 or '72 and long parts after that. MANY MORE PARTS AVAILABLE for the long pump. and easier to find. If you stay wiht the short pump, you will need to change the pullys, which is a (&*#&^$^$% and a half to do.

I would go back to the long waterpump, since you have the pullys. Prob. easier to fit the AC to it, check pick-n-pulls for brackets, than change everything else.

67ChevyRedneck · 06-01-2007, 10:54 PM

Problem is that my A/C from vintage air is already set up for the passenger side short water pump. I have the correct DS Alt. brackets. I THOUGHT I had the correct pulleys too

I now have everything I need but pulleys. I found them new on fleabay for $70, but I hope someone can get me some used ones much cheaper on the parts board. I kind of can't go back now, as the saying goes.

**70C10Toejam** · 06-01-2007, 10:57 PM

Gotcha. Did'nt catch the part of the Vintage air already for the short pump.

67ChevyRedneck · 06-01-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 70C10Toejam

Gotcha. Did'nt catch the part of the Vintage air already for the short pump.

That's Ok

Aarons72s · 06-01-2007, 11:04 PM

Summit has one 7.25" diameter in chrome steel part # SUM-G3972 and listed for 32.95 october 2006 catalog if you cant find one used.

Richard H. · 06-02-2007, 09:49 AM

I gave up trying to find the original bracket and went with this one from Bill's Hot Rods , Bought it bare and need to polish it and clear coat it. This one is a tall mount but they have others for sure and maybe less $$, or maybe a site vendor here. RH

shifty · 06-02-2007, 11:04 AM

i had the same problem on my inline 6, i just bought a diff't harmonic balancer and all was well.

06-01-2007, 09:30 PM	#1
67ChevyRedneck Hittin E-Z Street on Mud Tires Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 23,090	What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Ok, so I was all geared up for getting a chunk of my Vintage Air install done this weekend. A little background. The motor is late 70's, early 80's vintage...somewhere around there. The water pump is a long water pump, it has a 3 groove crank pulley and a 2 groove water pump pulley. The alternator was on the passenger's side. The plan: Order vintage air's kit for a non air truck with air controller for a '72 pick-up. I have a driver's side alternator mount off of a 72 truck. I bought a short water pump today. I asked for one off of a '72 350. I was going to swap the alternator and the water pump, and I had assumed I'd have a set-up very similar to a 1972 "air" truck. The problem: As you can see in the pics below, the pulleys do not line up. The front pulley on the WP kinda lines up with the back pulley on the crank. Also, they basically touch each other! That can't be right. The help part.... please help me figure out what the heck I need. It appears the water pump is also lower on the engine than the long pump was... is this right? 1st Q: Do I have the right water pump? 2nd Q: Do I have the right pulleys? It doesn't look right to me. If not, are they both incorrect or just one? By looking at it, it looks like I have the correct crank pulley and incorrect water pump pulley? Edit: actually, looking again, maybe I have the wrong crank pulley???? If someone can give me some definite answer's on these things, I'll post a WTB in the proper forum. Thank's so much all Attached Images __________________ Jesse James 1967 C10 SWB Stepside: 350/700R4/3.73 1965 Ford Mustang: 289/T5-5spd/3.25 Trac-Loc 1968 Pontiac Firebird: Project Fire Chicken! 2015 Silverado Double Cab 5.3L Z71 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L 5spd 2020 Chevrolet Equinox Premium 2.0L Turbo 2011 Mustang V6 ~ Wife's ride American Born, Country by the Grace of God 1967 CST Shop Truck Rebuild! My 1967 C-10 Build Thread My Vintage Air A/C Install Project "On a Dime" Trying my hand at Home Renovation! 1965 Mustang Modifications! Last edited by 67ChevyRedneck; 06-01-2007 at 09:33 PM.

06-01-2007, 09:36 PM	#2
Aarons72s Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: oklahoma Posts: 10,669	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Yes right water pump. You will need shorter bolts to hold it in but I asome you are using the old long pump ones for mock up. Bottom pully is wrong but top one looks ok.I heard the bolt holes wont line up on the water pump if you use a long pump pully on a short pump and vise versa but it looks like the right one on the pump. Bottom pully is for a long pump. The stock short pump 3 groove crank pully goes as follows, 1st one is flush up against the balancer and used for alternator and water pump. Second groove is used for a/c and water pump, unused on non a/c and front groove is used for ps. So you need a stock 3 groove short water pump pully. You might see if someone has an extra one or you can get new chrome ones from summit, not sure on the diameter of the stock and summit ones. Oh as for your engine, what side is the dip stick on? dr side dipstick is 69-79 and passenger dipstick is 79-86. Hope this helps. Last edited by Aarons72s; 06-01-2007 at 10:02 PM.

06-01-2007, 09:42 PM	#3
67ChevyRedneck Hittin E-Z Street on Mud Tires Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 23,090	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Sweet. Is it a little smaller too? Like I said the pulleys are literally almost touching! Is that normal/correct? I don't have any parts or junkyard trucks to look at. I tried to hit up local yards for parts a couple weeks ago and I can't find one nearby that has "older" stuff anymore. That and I can't ever seem to take time off from work Thanks bud! I don't mean any offense, but can a couple more peeps verify this? My truck is "out of order" until I get this all sorted out and the Air kit installed (couple weeks?? ) I'll need to post a WTB for this stuff... factor in shipping time.... Oh well, I drove 'er around for about 2 hours today running errands/picking up new parts __________________ Jesse James 1967 C10 SWB Stepside: 350/700R4/3.73 1965 Ford Mustang: 289/T5-5spd/3.25 Trac-Loc 1968 Pontiac Firebird: Project Fire Chicken! 2015 Silverado Double Cab 5.3L Z71 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L 5spd 2020 Chevrolet Equinox Premium 2.0L Turbo 2011 Mustang V6 ~ Wife's ride American Born, Country by the Grace of God 1967 CST Shop Truck Rebuild! My 1967 C-10 Build Thread My Vintage Air A/C Install Project "On a Dime" Trying my hand at Home Renovation! 1965 Mustang Modifications! Last edited by 67ChevyRedneck; 06-01-2007 at 09:46 PM.

06-01-2007, 09:47 PM	#4
Aarons72s Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: oklahoma Posts: 10,669	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! The crank pully should be about the diameter of the balancer.

06-01-2007, 09:51 PM	#5
67ChevyRedneck Hittin E-Z Street on Mud Tires Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 23,090	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Well, THAT part of it actually looks correct (it is about the same diameter.) So does that mean the wp pulley is wrong too? Or is it normal for them to be REAL close together (I mean like 3 sheets of paper close.) I'll measure them tomorrow. I'm too pissed to pop the hood again __________________ Jesse James 1967 C10 SWB Stepside: 350/700R4/3.73 1965 Ford Mustang: 289/T5-5spd/3.25 Trac-Loc 1968 Pontiac Firebird: Project Fire Chicken! 2015 Silverado Double Cab 5.3L Z71 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L 5spd 2020 Chevrolet Equinox Premium 2.0L Turbo 2011 Mustang V6 ~ Wife's ride American Born, Country by the Grace of God 1967 CST Shop Truck Rebuild! My 1967 C-10 Build Thread My Vintage Air A/C Install Project "On a Dime" Trying my hand at Home Renovation! 1965 Mustang Modifications! Last edited by 67ChevyRedneck; 06-01-2007 at 09:53 PM.

06-01-2007, 09:52 PM	#6
Aarons72s Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: oklahoma Posts: 10,669	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Here are some pics of my 72 with a/c, the a/c pump was removed by po but all the other accesories are still there. Last edited by Aarons72s; 12-02-2008 at 11:09 PM.

06-01-2007, 09:53 PM	#7
Aarons72s Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: oklahoma Posts: 10,669	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Yah they are real close, about a belt width apart.

06-01-2007, 09:55 PM	#8
67ChevyRedneck Hittin E-Z Street on Mud Tires Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 23,090	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Awesome. I feel good enough about that to post a WTB. My waterpump looks to be correct. If anyone else notices something's not right, don't be shy! __________________ Jesse James 1967 C10 SWB Stepside: 350/700R4/3.73 1965 Ford Mustang: 289/T5-5spd/3.25 Trac-Loc 1968 Pontiac Firebird: Project Fire Chicken! 2015 Silverado Double Cab 5.3L Z71 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L 5spd 2020 Chevrolet Equinox Premium 2.0L Turbo 2011 Mustang V6 ~ Wife's ride American Born, Country by the Grace of God 1967 CST Shop Truck Rebuild! My 1967 C-10 Build Thread My Vintage Air A/C Install Project "On a Dime" Trying my hand at Home Renovation! 1965 Mustang Modifications!

06-01-2007, 09:59 PM	#9
Aarons72s Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: oklahoma Posts: 10,669	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Top pully on mine is about 6" diameter Crank pully about 7" and I got an 8" balancer. Went and tried to measure them as best I could in the dark. There was about 3/4" space between upper and lower pullys.

06-01-2007, 10:04 PM	#10
67ChevyRedneck Hittin E-Z Street on Mud Tires Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 23,090	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Thanks so much. VERY nice of you! I love this place __________________ Jesse James 1967 C10 SWB Stepside: 350/700R4/3.73 1965 Ford Mustang: 289/T5-5spd/3.25 Trac-Loc 1968 Pontiac Firebird: Project Fire Chicken! 2015 Silverado Double Cab 5.3L Z71 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L 5spd 2020 Chevrolet Equinox Premium 2.0L Turbo 2011 Mustang V6 ~ Wife's ride American Born, Country by the Grace of God 1967 CST Shop Truck Rebuild! My 1967 C-10 Build Thread My Vintage Air A/C Install Project "On a Dime" Trying my hand at Home Renovation! 1965 Mustang Modifications!

06-01-2007, 10:43 PM	#11
70C10Toejam Hellasick Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Death Moans, IA Posts: 876	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! not to contradict prev. answers, but if you started with all pullys and brackets for a long waterpump, all you SHOULD need is the correct bracket for the A/C. right now, you have a short waterpump with long waterpump pullys and prob. brackets (if they are different). It is much easier to find the long pump parts than the short pump parts. Chevy used the short ones from about '65 to '70 or '72 and long parts after that. MANY MORE PARTS AVAILABLE for the long pump. and easier to find. If you stay wiht the short pump, you will need to change the pullys, which is a (&*#&^$^$% and a half to do. I would go back to the long waterpump, since you have the pullys. Prob. easier to fit the AC to it, check pick-n-pulls for brackets, than change everything else. __________________ I keep two MAGNUMS in my desk. One's a gun, and I keep it loaded. The other's a bottle and it keeps ME loaded. I'm Tracer Bullet. (Calvin and Hobbes) This life was a test. It was only a test. If this had been an actual life, you would have received instructions on where to go and what to do. RED meat is not bad for you...FUZZY BLUE/GREEN MEAT is bad for you!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUILT FORD TOUGH WITH CHEVY STUFF--sticker at Goodguys

06-01-2007, 10:54 PM	#12
67ChevyRedneck Hittin E-Z Street on Mud Tires Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 23,090	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Problem is that my A/C from vintage air is already set up for the passenger side short water pump. I have the correct DS Alt. brackets. I THOUGHT I had the correct pulleys too I now have everything I need but pulleys. I found them new on fleabay for $70, but I hope someone can get me some used ones much cheaper on the parts board. I kind of can't go back now, as the saying goes. __________________ Jesse James 1967 C10 SWB Stepside: 350/700R4/3.73 1965 Ford Mustang: 289/T5-5spd/3.25 Trac-Loc 1968 Pontiac Firebird: Project Fire Chicken! 2015 Silverado Double Cab 5.3L Z71 2001 Jeep Wrangler Sport 4.0L 5spd 2020 Chevrolet Equinox Premium 2.0L Turbo 2011 Mustang V6 ~ Wife's ride American Born, Country by the Grace of God 1967 CST Shop Truck Rebuild! My 1967 C-10 Build Thread My Vintage Air A/C Install Project "On a Dime" Trying my hand at Home Renovation! 1965 Mustang Modifications!

06-01-2007, 10:57 PM	#13
70C10Toejam Hellasick Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Death Moans, IA Posts: 876	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Gotcha. Did'nt catch the part of the Vintage air already for the short pump. __________________ I keep two MAGNUMS in my desk. One's a gun, and I keep it loaded. The other's a bottle and it keeps ME loaded. I'm Tracer Bullet. (Calvin and Hobbes) This life was a test. It was only a test. If this had been an actual life, you would have received instructions on where to go and what to do. RED meat is not bad for you...FUZZY BLUE/GREEN MEAT is bad for you!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUILT FORD TOUGH WITH CHEVY STUFF--sticker at Goodguys

06-01-2007, 11:04 PM	#15
Aarons72s Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: oklahoma Posts: 10,669	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! Summit has one 7.25" diameter in chrome steel part # SUM-G3972 and listed for 32.95 october 2006 catalog if you cant find one used.

06-02-2007, 09:49 AM	#16
Richard H. Spanked once Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Intheshop, Indiana Posts: 969	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! I gave up trying to find the original bracket and went with this one from Bill's Hot Rods , Bought it bare and need to polish it and clear coat it. This one is a tall mount but they have others for sure and maybe less $$, or maybe a site vendor here. RH Attached Images



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06-02-2007, 11:04 AM	#17
shifty Questionable Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 13,373	Re: What the crap??? Please help!!!!! i had the same problem on my inline 6, i just bought a diff't harmonic balancer and all was well. __________________ If I've got anything up for grabs, it'll be here: 7-hole gauge cluster for a 67-72 p/u FREE (link) I can't check the forum daily. If I don't reply to you within 24 hours, drop me a PM! I'm (hopefully) still alive and will reply faster to a PM.

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