Air Bag message boards???

[Shane]

anyone know of any message boards, like this one, that deals with Air Bags and/or Air Ride suspension??

I know Air Ride Technologies has one, but I have some questions about various set-ups, and every reply over there is kinda like a commercial for their products. Nothing against their stuff....but would like input from folks that have used OTHER brands of products.

thanks!

[jay-dawg]

have you checked out sportruck.com? There's alot of info there on their forum, but alot of childish stuff going on too. anyway, check them out.

jay

[Smooth68]

Shane - you can also check out Airlift/Easystreets web site. They have a small tech forum, but the guys that work there answer all the questions and usually fairly quickly. I've got 2 of their bags for the rear of the truck.

[Shane]

Thanks guys.....

ProSt68Trk- I just purchased all 4 of my bags, and am researching my options on the valves and compressors. These two items seem to be the most critical, as well as the most expensive, of the entire set-up. I wanted to get some input on the different valve manufacturers, as well as the distributors that sell them.

here's my main reason for asking such questions.....BUDGET!....

[Slammed67]

The Sport truck board is mainly S-10/Ram/Import guys, but the people at Air Ride and Easy Street often answer questions.

[Smooth68]

I haven't seen alot of bagged trucks but slammed67 ( ) seems to have a VERY nice setup on his - I was able to go by and meet him during a recent trip to Kansas City and check out his truck. He is able to raise to all the way up or down within a second or so. He has the type and speed of a system I'm looking to do on mine.

Shane - BUDGET is the keyword for me too. If you could share what you find out I'd be grateful!

[Shane]

No problem ProSt68Trk....the cheapest I have found 3/8" valves is $49.95...if anyone else knows of any suppliers, please let us know....thanks.

here's a link to the ones i found.....
http://www.airliftcompany.com/easyst...indexframe.htm

[Narkoleptik]

so far, as I've seen, NOBODY has airbag suspension in the rear with leaf springs... I'm assuming there is no such thing... If there is, anyone have some pics?

<--- BTW, BIG NOOB

[NSANE68!!!]

I did a 72 GMC with leafs.
It takes some doin, but it can be done.
Flip kit, notch, de-arch springs 5", and build a bridge across frame for upper mounts and use axle mounts for bottom

[Dropt72Shortbed]

$49?

i think that may be a bit high?

i think 3/8" 10mm SMCs can be had for around $35-40.

however im not sure but i know someone who sells them and is highly recommended on the sportruck.com site

Larry at innovative suspension in NV
http://www.innovativeairsuspension.com

[Shane]

Dropt72Shortbed - I checked out Larry's webpage...but couldn't find any valves other than the Air Ride Technologies "integrated" system.


Does he list any valves other than the Air Ride units???? I called my self looking under all his categories, but didn't see any others.

NSANE68 - I noticed you had the "Body Ported" style valves....do you carry the "other type" (for lack of knowing the correct name )?


Lets keep this thread going.....lots of good info here for us Budget Builders

Thanks Gang!

[Dropt72Shortbed]

Originally posted by Shane
Dropt72Shortbed - I checked out Larry's webpage...but couldn't find any valves other than the Air Ride Technologies "integrated" system.


Does he list any valves other than the Air Ride units???? I called my self looking under all his categories, but didn't see any others.

yea hes got the 3/8" 10mm SMCs. youll have to call or email him though cause he doesnt list them on his website.

[XXL]

Originally posted by Shane
NSANE68 - I noticed you had the "Body Ported" style valves....do you carry the "other type" (for lack of knowing the correct name )?

The "other type" would be a spool valve. They use a metal axle that has small vanes in it that essentially act like a water wheel on an old mill by the stream or a paddlewheel on a steamboat (but with air, of course). The main issue with this type of spool is of "quality." This design was originally intended for machine process control. They were made to be durable and inexpensive (which are both good), but they didn't have any concerns about air overhead. So the design doesn't care if they leak here and there. A factory would have huge compressors running to feed it. But on the truck, you're going to want them to hold all air until you say so... either that or they are going to leak down as you're driving down the road (slowly, but leak nonetheless). So, what you're looking for in products of this design are true aftermarket car-specific products that are designed to be more careful about leaks. The off-the-shelf industrial pieces that simply have a "Bubba's AirSuspensions" sticker on them aren't what you want-- budget or not.

I don't want to sound like a commercial for RideTech but their valves DO NOT leak... AT ALL. I have left my truck for months on end sitting in the garage and there has been zero leakdown. Their valves don't stick in cold weather (actually I had one do this, but it was their first generation design and it was promptly replaced by a new one via UPR Overnight).

Areas where I believe it's OK to shop elsewhere-- compressors and air tanks. As long as the tanks you're getting are ASME certified, they're as safe as compressed air can get. However, most tanks are NOT, including the ones I got from RideTech. But I don't see any quality issues with some of the other suppliers' tanks. Compressors-- contrary to RideTech's site info on this, it is my opinion that a Thompson 315 is a Thompson 315. That was also the opinion of the Thompson sales rep I spoke with about it. Yes, there are various sub-types of 315's but 1) they relate to mounting, voltage input level, etc., and 2) whichever configuration that RideTech is selling (the 315-123-whatever) is not some super-secret version built only for them. My first compressor came from RideTech. The two I'm using now are from somewhere else (who knows???) and they are absolutely identical except that I paid $85 each for them instead of $135 from RideTech.

I hope this helps,

Kenneth

[Shane]

XXL......looking at the Air Ride Tech. valves, they seem to be made the same as a "spool" or "pilot" type valve, only the ART guys have taken four solenoids and then made an aluminum manifold for all the four solenoids to be used as a single unit (intake & exhaust). Why are these any better (less leaks) than the "stand alone" type pilot valves???

Your more well-known manufacturers (Parker, SMC, MAC, etc....) guarantee a "leak free" and "bubble tight" valve.

Not debating, only curious as how the Air Ride Tech. valves are any less prone to leaking as opposed to other brands. Is it the manifold system? (less push-lock hose connections-hence, less places for leaks to form.)

Just curious????

Thanks for all the help......

[NSANE68!!!]

Yes I do carry the other's, but don't list them on the site. I personally don't care for them.
You need 2 at each wheel and extra fittings.
I just did a full AIR ROD system on a 95 civic with the gold valves.
We charged the spin tank to a full 175psi, and turned it off to do a leak down.
This guy works 10hr shifts and when he checked it after work it was still 125psi. NOT BAD!!
NO system will be leak proof 100%, unless you go crazy and run all copper line and crush fittings. JMO , and I've done quite a few air suspensions.

[jay-dawg]

shane...where did you get your bags and for how much?

jay

[Shane]

I bought them from a friend who decided not to use them.

[70 Jimmy]

The "other type" would be a spool valve. They use a metal axle that has small vanes in it that essentially act like a water wheel on an old mill by the stream or a paddlewheel on a steamboat (but with air, of course). The main issue with this type of spool is of "quality." This design was originally intended for machine process control. They were made to be durable and inexpensive (which are both good), but they didn't have any concerns about air overhead. So the design doesn't care if they leak here and there. A factory would have huge compressors running to feed it. But on the truck, you're going to want them to hold all air until you say so... either that or they are going to leak down as you're driving down the road (slowly, but leak nonetheless). So, what you're looking for in products of this design are true aftermarket car-specific products that are designed to be more careful about leaks. The off-the-shelf industrial pieces that simply have a "Bubba's AirSuspensions" sticker on them aren't what you want-- budget or not.

.

I respectfully and emphatically disagree with this. I work with the "industrial pieces" in machine process control every day at work. If one of my machines has a leaking valve, the process will be effected 9 times out of 10. Sometimes its just a minor leak that caused major problems. Rarely do SMC, Neumatics, Norgren, or even MAC valve leak. They normally fail to "spool" fast enough for the process (not enough to affect air bags), when they do fail. Most industrial valves have a million cycle warranty. These valves are so reliable and leak free, that most can be used in vacuum systems too. A pinhole leak in a vacuum system is death to most processes. Not trying to piss anyone off, maybe in the old days this was a problem, but not now.

How a spool valve works: Inside the valve there is a spool that has veins (or pathways). The spool is moved to side A or side B (2 position) by electromagnetic force. Energy is supplied to the A side, for example, and the spool moves that way. This aligns the the veins for the air to travel to the A side. Depending on the valve, it may also align the B side to exhaust, so make sure you know what you want to do. There are some valves out there that are "pilot assist". All this means is that you have a constant supply of air available which assist the movement of the the spool. I'm not sure if they are used in Air suspension or not.

I'll try to get some pics of a solenoid spoil valve (maybe I'll tear one apart ).

Hope this helps.

[XXL]

Originally posted by 70 Jimmy
I respectfully and emphatically disagree with this....

That works for me! Disagreeing is fun (religion or politics anyone?)

I believe the RideTech units are o-ring sealed poppet valves, but I'm not certain (and I'm not cracking one open to see how it works! My truck would look funny doing a 1-corner lean).

My experience with industrial control is fairly limited. Having owned a loudspeaker manufacturing company years ago, I used air to manipulate components during manufacturing. Then, it was standard fare for a valve to just sit and whistle between cycles. Valve designs almost certainly have improved, and may indeed be bubble tight now. So I acknowledge that some of the info in my previous post is at least outdated.

For me, when it came time to do an air system on the truck, I decided to go with an existing kit rather than build from scratch. Much like a comment made on another thread about buying bed bolts from LMC vs. buying hardware from the hardware store, I have found that kits often (though not always) end up being cheaper and less time consuming in the long run. In my current life, I'm a busy beaver, with little free time on my hands... so I went with a kit, and (again, without sounding like a sales pitch) I am THOROUGHLY satisfied with the one I got from RideTech. Having said all that, it may be better to piece something together these days, and the spool valves may be great. I just didn't take the time (or have the time ) to research that alternative.

Thanks 70 Jimmy for the additional perspective.

Kenneth

[Shev]

I sell SMC VXD valves (same ones Airlift calls their "Badboy" valves) I've got 50 some 10mm~3/8" port valves in stock ready to ship. I charge $35 a piece, (4) for $135 and (8) for $260, plus shipping. I also sell 15mm~1/2" port for $60. All valves include brackets (watch out, alot of guys sell them without them, and sometimes they can be harder to get than the valves) Email me at sshevnock@yahoo.com if you are interested or need some ?'s answered. I also recommend www.sportruck.com , yes there is alot of childish stuff there, but there is also alot of good info. As with any board, if you are looking for something in particular, do a search, you'd be amazed at what you can learn.

[Shane]

Thanks for the reply Shev.....so far, you are "da man" on the lowest price.....

[Shane]

*

[jay-dawg]

I'll keep you in mind shev when I am in that phase of the project.

jay

[Slammed67]

70 Jimmy:

The spool valves I am using are either "pilot assist" or they are just sticking. For example, if I have presure in all the bags (truck is raised) and the tank is empty, the valves will not function. Once I get some pressure in the tank, they start to work properly. I apparently have a slow leak in my system because the tanks loose all their pressure overnight. I haven't been able to track down the leak(s) yet, so this is an annoying problem.

[70 Jimmy]

Slammed67,

Arm yourself with a bottle of soapy water (minimize the foam when filling) then air up and start sqirting the air lines starting at the tank. The leaking offender will be foamy as the air excapes through the soap. The biggest culprit is the NPT threads like the one's that go to the tank and valves. Remember, teflon tape is used as a lubricant on the threads. IT IS NOT A SEALANT, though it does have some sealing properties. I can't tell you the number of times I've seen people throw teflon tape on fittings and not tighten them down because " The tape will seal it up".

The easiest way to tell if you have "pilot assist" is by the extra supply line to the valve. What brand and model number do you have and I may be able to look it up too.