Good News On Engine Oil

[1968SWBBigBlock]

I took my motor to a machine shop, Watson&Ruppel performance, and stumbled onto an oil that will work with our old flat tappet cams.
This is the old Kendall oil formula.
It all has zinc but they also carry a special break in oil.
My local supplier sells it for $2.46 per quart.
Not a bad price by any means!

http://www.bradpennracing.com/default.asp
Penn Grade 1® Racing Oils

The term “100% Pure Pennsylvania Grade Crude Oil” has long carried with it an industry connotation for being one of the best sources of high quality lubricant base stocks in the world. Our BRAD PENN® refinery, the oldest continuously operating lube oil refinery in the United States, still refines 100% Pennsylvania grade crude oil. PA grade crude oil is a very thermally stable paraffinic crude oil which contains no asphaltic constituents. This makes it an ideal choice from which to refine premium quality base oils. Because we use only one crude stock, our refined products are of consistently high quality and performance.

BRAD PENN® brand products are truly “MADE IN THE U.S.A.” American Refining Group’s Bradford, PA refinery is the home of “The Green Oil®” that racers, engine builders and enthusiasts alike have all come to know and love! The unique green color and outstanding performance of our Penn Grade 1 Racing oils set them apart from the competition.

BRAD PENN® Penn Grade 1® Racing Oils are formulated using a unique base oil cut from our tower, which gives our Penn Grade 1® racing oils exceptional film strength and unsurpassed metal ‘wetting’ abilities. This unique base oil causes our Penn Grade 1®racing oil to cling tenaciously to engine parts to minimize wear during high engine torque loading and/or periods of heavily stressed operation such as those experienced during competition. This same oil ‘cling’ helps prevent ‘dry-start’ conditions to minimize wear even after the engine has been sitting idle for extended periods.

BRAD PENN® Penn Grade 1® Racing Oils also contain highly effective detergent and dispersant additives to guarantee exceptional engine cleanliness as well as oxidation and foam inhibitors that offer protection against thermal degradation and air entrainment.

In addition to our unique base oil cut, increased concentration of “zinc” (zinc dialkyldithiophosphate a.k.a. ZDDP) provides outstanding anti-wear/anti-scuffing protection for engines employing either ‘flat tappet’ or roller cams. BRAD PENN® Penn Grade 1® Racing Oils have been evaluated by a number of premiere camshaft manufacturers with tremendous success. Many are now recommending our Penn Grade 1® racing oils to provide outstanding protection for their ‘flat tappet’ or roller cams.

The American Refining Group, Inc. offers a comprehensive line of BRAD PENN® lubricants such as gear oil, grease and other items to meet the majority of racing needs. We also offer a complete line of lubricants for today’s passenger car, fleet, commercial and industrial applications.

[piecesparts]

Go to your local Walmart and look at "Rotella T" oil. It had a big write up in the magazine publications on the zinc and protective qualities.

[ksjh1316]

I thought Rotella got rid of the Zinc as well???

[Longhorn Man]

Rotella has less Zink in it now than the 10/30 oils do. If you get it in 55 gallon drums it has some zink in it, but still hardly anything.

[Blue71LWB]

Here's a linky as to why Zinc is being cut back

http://www.theage.com.au/news/busine...012644899.html

[SactoJim]

Most "Racing" oils have enough zinc to provide flat tappet protection.

Valvoline in particular.

[kenm78]

but isn't most racing oils 20w50?? wouldn't that be hard on cold winter starts?

[jott_06]

Did you get to see Dave watson's camaro by any chance? Well he has two camaro's, but did you get to see the one he races. It's pretty sweet. I love going to watson ruppel performance.

[1968SWBBigBlock]

Yes - Dave has his 69 sitting in the shop right now.
15-1 compression in a 282 (yes 282)
small block. Crazy but it must work with 8 national NHRA records

[1968SWBBigBlock]

I need to copy the picture of the 67 chevy SWB truck they built for Dave Watsons Dad.
Enderle injection with a bug scoop sticking out of the hood, narrowed & tubbed nice looking ride

[Billla]

There was an updated diesel spec released, so Rotella now is not the magic bullet. At this point the only real option is racing oil - I'm using Valvoline VR1 these days but looking at Royal Purple too.

http://www.valvoline.com/pages/produ...asp?product=50

[chipflyer]

Not sure if you guys saw this, Castrol High zinc oil but I think it's going to be the answer for me. I run Mobile 1 now but plan to switch to this new Castrol if I can ever find it. The local parts stores still don't know much (or care) about the lack of zinc in modern oils and mine dont carry it yet.

Jeff

[Jim_PA]

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...t_Engines.aspx

I just put in the standard mobil1 10w 30, and will either move to the Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-30 (since it's available at local places), or find the amsoil with the highest zinc content.

[chipflyer]

I just read that piece on mobile 1's site and I wasn't to impressed with that answer, they didn't mention the Zinc issue and pretty much said to use the same oil in newer engines and flat tappet engines for the protection of the catalytic systems
Most of the older vehicles with flat tappet cams don't have catalytic systems and they are the ones rounding lobes.

At least the castrol people admit that there is a problem and have developed an oil for the older stuff which I am sure all the companies will eventually.

Jeff

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by chipflyer

I just read that piece on mobile 1's site and I wasn't to impressed with that answer, they didn't mention the Zinc issue and pretty much said to use the same oil in newer engines and flat tappet engines for the protection of the catalytic systems
Most of the older vehicles with flat tappet cams don't have catalytic systems and they are the ones rounding lobes.

At least the castrol people admit that there is a problem and have developed an oil for the older stuff which I am sure all the companies will eventually.

Jeff

Taken from a Hot Rod article:

"Typically the phosphate amounts are about 75 percent of the zincamounts. For example, if there was 0.100 percent zinc by weight in themotor oil, then the phosphate is about 0.075."

mobil1 doesn't address zinc, but apparently zinc and phosphate content are directly correlated.

[1968SWBBigBlock]

Jim - I am suprised - Penn Oil is in your back yard

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by 1968SWBBigBlock

Jim - I am suprised - Penn Oil is in your back yard

Maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to go to a roller cam

[kenm78]

I don't want to steel this persons thread but a quick question? About oil weights, I am thinking of switching to that VR1 racing oil. For a climate were I am in Oklahoma it can be 20 degrees one day with a few inches of snow and the next day 65-70 with nothing on the ground. 20w50 would be a little think wouldn't you think?

[Jim_PA]

Originally Posted by kenm78

I don't want to steel this persons thread but a quick question? About oil weights, I am thinking of switching to that VR1 racing oil. For a climate were I am in Oklahoma it can be 20 degrees one day with a few inches of snow and the next day 65-70 with nothing on the ground. 20w50 would be a little think wouldn't you think?

Sounds like it would put a little un-due strain on your oil pump, but that's just my un-edjumacated guess

[kenm78]

Any one every use the VR1 10w30?

[franks72]

I had a 71 nova streetcar with 454 and a crower rollercam .I had a lobe go bad on the cam. The machine shop is a crower dealer and never saw this so we called. The first thing they wanted to know is what oil I was using,I was using mobil 1 .On there web site they say they do not recomend this. They also have facts about oil.http://www.atis.net/oil_faq.html

[jeffspower]

In research, I'm finding zinc levels by weight in the range of zero to .20 %. Nowhere can I find a "minimum % by weight" recommendation. Most of the oil companies claiming their oil as good for flat- tappet motors don't offer specs on their site, they just state increased or higher levels of zinc. I did read somewhere that high levels of zinc don't offer better wear protection, just longer oil change intervals before it (I'm assuming here) wears out or burns off as vapor thru the PCV.

So has anyone found an actual % zinc by weight specified from a cam manufacturer?

I used to be big on Rotella, looks like I may be switching to Valvoline All- Fleet:

http://www.valvoline.com/products/afpud.pdf

[jeffspower]

Well, scratch the Valvoline All- Fleet. I found several articles stating that a high detergent oil will "cut" the zinc from the metal parts. So based on that, an oil with a fair amount of zinc & average detergent levels may be better than one with high zinc if it is high in detergent.

I've about had enough- what can you find at the store that is decent?

I did find one good source for info on oils. But most of the test aren't very recent.

http://www.lnengineering.com/oiltable.htm

[odog]

Originally Posted by kenm78

Any one every use the VR1 10w30?

Kenm78
This is probably a sin to talk about on this site, but I use VR1 10w30 in the 460 in my bronco. I have run it since I put the motor in there, and have never had any problems.

[chipflyer]

If you guys haven't been to the oil guys site take a look
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php
Lots of good info, all about oil!

Jeff