What features do you guys like / want in a s-10 kit?

[0ptikal]

Hey guys I've been working on and doing Reasearch and development for the last 4 months on making a ideal s-10 kit. I've seen alot of fabricators do certain things certain ways and concepts I like and some I didn't. But the one kit I made turned into 4 and then full frames ready to put bodies on and apparently the kit is like the bastard kit no one makes. However I'm looking to see what you guys would want in a kit for your personal trucks.

To give you some background I'm a metal fabricator with a background in S-10's bagged, body dropped, performance, and custom tube chasis. As well was born into a hot rodding family and the two centerpieces of the family collection were a 48 and a 53 5 window truck. My partner is as well an enthusiest of these trucks and has a 55 series one. He's a certified welder in all 7 metal groups.
Our shops actually called Chopshop and specialize in metal work - we are equiped with all newer machines - tig, mig, arc, plasma, and cnc plasma. We're located in northern Maryland and frequent up and down the eastern seabored. As well travel to Las vegas once a year so we can deliver kits, parts and or full chasis to you alot cheaper then shipping.

Ok now down to our kits:

We build S-10 frames for AD trucks. Our mock up / test rig is a 55 series 1.

Current Frame and kit we can produce in bulk:

-Custom adjustable 4 link kit made of 1/2 thick plate and front and rear heim joints.
-Custom Watt's Link to give the best handeling.
-Rear airbag plates and mounts (set up to keep form notching the frame and leave the truck with a stock bed floor yet alow it to lay the fenders out a 0 psi)
-Template to cut front spring pockets to fit RE7 or 2600 firestone airbags. (7's and 2600's require less psi to achieve a larger lift which gives a smoother ride. As well requires less psi and a smaller tank to lift the front.)
-Or you can run RE6's or 2500 firestones and keep form cutting the spring pocket at all.
-We can supply either bag setup for the front at your discression
-Stainless Swagelock fittings and braided lines from the front bags to route through the frame to a stainless hard line which runs to your tank.
-Or DOT softline airline and quick connect fittings
-Rear RE-7 / Re-8 / 2600 / 2700lb air bags and fittings.
- 3/8's / or 1/2" line and fittings and valves - FB, or FBSS
-Transmission mount for 5 speed manual, 400 turbo, 700r4
-small block motor mounts
-Also we offer custom 3-link - or 5 -link suspensions for the rear as well.
-As well we have 1/8" thick plate cnc cut to be a direct fit for the inner frame to box it in. - line it up and weld - no cutting or trimming.
-Shock relocation kit

At this point were debating on offering different things with our kit - such as a custom core support thats already trimmed to go around the s-10 gearbox etc. But we're looking for feedback if thats something people would want - or would want to do themselves. As well any other suggestions would be greatley appriciated.

We're also working on tubular control arms right now - that will allow you ot lay out on a larger rim up to 29" diameter. it's a modded control arm with upper and lower omni joints in place of ball joints. As well this will require a minimal trans tunnel to be installed - very slight curve but we will supply it with the kit.

This kit at 0 psi will let your truck lay out all the way around

[0ptikal]

These pictures were at the beginning of the build of the first mock up set. Theres flash rust because of circumstance leading to it sitting out side for a few days and inclement weather. I'll take some more pictures tommorrow of how the cab sits as well as the running boards. and front end etc. These are quite a bit behind on current setup. As well I'll put some more clear pictures up of the components.

[0ptikal]

[Lrall]

You dont re-use the s10 mounts do you....that would suck. As a personal preference i dont like watts links but thats me. Tubular control arms would ROCK. anyway, my feedback, sweet idea tho

[0ptikal]

Hey we're trying to save out cad software as different kits and keep everything setup so we can just click cut and then weld it up and ship it out or weld it up mount it all on the frame and ship it out. No we don't use the origional s10 body mounts. these were all early on photos. We actually have cnc plasma cut bracketry we've made for mounts. there thick each walls .25 thick and there cut to fit on the side and top of the frame. I haven't taken any photos of the final setups or the cab bracketry yet. everytime we get a chasis fully finished I've had a local dealer of vintage cars who buys them up. but I'm going to try and get out in the shop tommorrow or monday to get some more updated photos.
Any particular reason your not a fna of the watts?

[68c10owner]

For me I would want ease of installation and low cost.

[0ptikal]

Well we have two kits so far as far as mounting which is weld in and bolt on. Weld in is to me easier - dimensional chart of where to weld is easy to read and locate mounting points.

[0ptikal]

oh ya and low cost - whats a reasonable cost to you for a kit designed to lay your truck out on bags? Would you guys want the bags lines tanks etc in the kit or just the bracketry? As well we do make a coil spring kit

[68c10owner]

Originally Posted by 0ptikal

oh ya and low cost - whats a reasonable cost to you for a kit designed to lay your truck out on bags? Would you guys want the bags lines tanks etc in the kit or just the bracketry? As well we do make a coil spring kit

Well I don`t expect it to be free but a resonal price. I`d say under a $1000 for my interests. The other kits are about $1100 and I can almost put together a MII set up for that plus I don`t have to pay for a s10 frame as well and the wheel spacers. Again, this is just my opinion here.

[68c10owner]

By the way, I`m not interested in the bagged stuff. I want a lowered truck but I`ll use droped spindals and blocks for the rear leafs. I like simple suspensions and never really got into the air bag stuff. And weld in kits would be stongest but not everyone has a welder.

[stkcode]

Hmm...interesting. I like the bags as an option. One thing that would be nice to see...when your finished...is how far the links hang down from the body. Also, maybe it would be possible to have some more modern motor and trans mountings. I personally would like to run an LS1/6/2 motor, instead of the ancient carb motors. Bolt-in components would be a plus.

[0ptikal]

Originally Posted by stkcode

Hmm...interesting. I like the bags as an option. One thing that would be nice to see...when your finished...is how far the links hang down from the body. Also, maybe it would be possible to have some more modern motor and trans mountings. I personally would like to run an LS1/6/2 motor, instead of the ancient carb motors. Bolt-in components would be a plus.

I actually have a lsx and ls1 block here we're working on making a kit for those pin style mounts now. The link's are actually much higher then currently pictured. those were all early pics but my g/f has my camera at her parents house waiting to get it back. So i can post more pictures of current stature.

[0ptikal]

sorry for the delay in response guys for some reason I didn't get an email saying there were any new posts.
I can make kits either way As well I can produce full rolling chasis as I have 10 frames sitting here. I built lowriders for years so bags were a clean and adjustible solution. As well we can turn part of the rear frame rail into air tank which will keep it clean and not as noticable. We've made 5 link kits or mono leaf for bags. For stock springs I have probably 4 sets of belltech lowering leafs in and 2 sets of 2" drop spindles sitting in the garage right now as well a few sets of eibach springs. I part alot of these trucks out so I get alot of spindles and such in and for the price I can usually get them for I try to pass the savings on in the kits. As well we provide 4wd s-10 disc brake rear ends - and or 80's camaro disc brake rear ends. which prevent you from needing wheel spacers - we don't like spacers here and don't trust them. As well were working on the tubular lower control arms which will widen +2 and prevent the need for spacers. Depending on what everyone seems to want in a kits I'm going to try and make a custom order list so you can piece your kits together.

[jasonpickett]

check your im. Please get back to me as soon as possible.

[49S10]

I have a daily driver 49 on an S10 and used the AD Engr. kit. I have a 48 and another 49 that I plan to put on S10 chassis's. I would be interested in seeing your list of parts/prices. Does your cab mounting brackets make it necessary to cut the lower firewall/toeboard area for tranny clearance? Also, how high off the crossmember does your engine mounts set the oil pan? Thanks in advance for the info.

[0ptikal]

I got tied up in a contract doing 10 of these frames right now frame with the kit welded on for a company. I'm soryr if I'm a bit slow to respond between that and I just got pneumonia I'm a bit under the weather. I should be back out finishing this contract up and then I'll get some measurements for you. Right now we've been using the stock s-10 trans humps to weld into the toe / floorboard. The reason being the trucks we've been contracted to build have all been manuals and it gave a natural flow with the trans and shifter We can adjust your kit accordingly. My partner has been working on the R&D of other ways to set these kits up to give different desired effect. Hence the origional purpose fo rthis post. I've had a lot of inquieries about the front core support modifications - and as well engine placment forward and rearward depending on drivetrain. Different link style - 3 link 4-link - 5 link suspension setups etc. As well as modding the floor for the different transmissions. Everything depends on how the customer wants there truck to sit in location to the ground. As you can see form the pictures above the kit was origionally designed to lay out on running boards on an airbagged 4 link suspension. Without having to notch the frame so you still had full use of the bed. The airbag kits are fully designed have been very popular unfortunatly the kits don't appeal ot everyones taste due to the core support modification around the steering box and the trans tunnel having to be sloped slightly. So we have been working on making a bolt on / weld on lower core support rail so that you can cut it where designated and bolt or weld in the new lower support to accomidate the steering box. As well the trans tunnel and bead rolling around it. Unfortunatly We can't seem to find a happy medium for a universal kit so what were working on is a part / price sheet. That you can order everything from a body mount set for what desired application - Kind of like a drop down dell order a computer setup. Where you can select the parts you want over the basic kit and the price will adjust accordingly. to give you an idea I've had requests from powdercoating the bolt on kit , mounts high enough to not require cutting the floor or core support - link suspensions - rear frame sections that are weld on that allow the rear frame of the truck to be your air tank and you can plumb directly in the box tube frame backhalf (which also allows for you to weld or bolt it to a shortbed frame to make it the proper dimensions of a longbed frame due to the decreasing amount of longbed s-10's in some areas. We still are working hard to make the +2 tubular control arms so that normal offset wheels will fit with no spacers required. Right now it's looking like we're going to be needing about a month to finish this contract - and about 1 more month to finish R&D on the height different mounts , tubulars control arms +2, and pre fabbed core support. That way when you get the kit if you want to be able to bolt everything on quickly and have to fab or modify nothing it will be good to go. As well we should be getting a spot at truck carisle in PA in august. We should have a variety of kits to fit everyones needs ready by then.

[weldvair@embarqmail.]

Keep it simple & cheap. This a easy frame/body mod that can be done almost as easy w/out a kit, thus the kit has to be cheap to sell. I have done many of these trks. (AD trks)w/o a kit. I have used The S10 frame swap, Camaro, mid size GM's & Must II.
The S10 certainly has it's disadvantages due to it's narrow front track & frame kick -up aft of the cab.

People use the s-10 frame because it is cheap. If you are going to put $1500 in a s-10 kit I think there is better ways to go.

There already exists a kit for arond $1100 & I do not think a s-10 kit that sells for more than that would be a best seller.

Don Meyer, Mech Engr. (Owner of Vintage Street rods)

I would like to see comments on this.

[chip46wis]

Cost is number 1 with me-I feel the popular kit for around $1100 is about 40% too high,No doubt there is time and thought going in to this kit but I cant see where the steel cost itself is over $100.00

[0ptikal]

see thats the thing - the kits we're doing will be everything being able to be ordered from an individual bracket up to full rolling chasis - To full box tube frames. That way you guys can accomidate the kit for what your looking for and need. The hard part of making a "cheap" kit is it doesn't work for half of the guys that want it due to welding etc - IF we have to make bolt on kits - pre made core supports - etc and put with a universal style kit then again same problem the current kits have not even half of the people are happy with it. IT's all in the installers skill level - personally I like weld on but thats because one I like welding - and two have the skill to weld and welder. But thats extra time for us to weld brakcets on to bolt on and then to drill the brackets and then fine suitable bolts and nuts - Plus more we have to stock in here to have a kit handy to sell. So heres the goal so far - If any of you have used dell or gateway to order a computer your familier with there configurator where you use drop downs to select options and such and it adds or removes a bit of price off of the total... same concept. We're trying to do something that will make a kit that will fit perfectly for your application - yet be simple and clean and somewhat universal. Personally my personal truck we're doing with a custom box tube frame and a corvette IRS and it's bagged - why because it's what I would want but other companies kits wouldn't work because it would interfere with the bed mounts etc. It's all in preference and these are all custom rides - we all want our own twist. We're just trying to make something that will work for everyone and yet be cost effective for those guys that don't really need anything more then the bracketry up to the guysthat can only turn a wrench.

[weldvair@embarqmail.]

Again...people doing S-10 frame swaps are doing this because it's cheap. We do not want fancy kits, air bags,or full frames. I want a basic kit than is less than $1000 or I'll do it w/o a kit.

[0ptikal]

Thats my point some people have asked for a bagged kit - some coilover - These have all been requests we've had locally, online etc. Thats the point of making a system again such as dell has a computer where you can order what you want and what you need, nothing more nothing less. For just a body kit weld on style un assembled - as in pieces are cnc plasma cut and ready to be welded up will be about - $650 to 750 - A kit thats a weld on with all the bracketry welded up and ready for you to weld on the frame and throw a body on will be about 800 - 900 and it's fully tig welded - for a kit thats fully tig welded and the user just needs to bolt it on supplies included about $1000. Thats a ruff - once we get our jigs for welding everything up and refined in time of assembly we can probably work a little better on the prices. The kit is simple I'm waiting ot get my digital camera back from my girlfriend so I can take pictures for you.
My point with the airbags and frames and such is depending on the skill level of the installer we will offer from the brackets to full rolling chasis. You may be able to fabricate your own kit but alot of guys don't have the tools, space etc to .... I've been there along time ago and know how that can be. As well not everyone has 24k to throw in to a cnc plasma setup so they can cut brackets out smoothly without spending a bit of time with a cut off wheel or hand plasma cutting and then grinding down to the fine measurements. Simply enough if it's so easy to make then why would you be looking for a kit - because it takes time to make and whats your time worth? To cut out, drill and weld up an entire kit Your looking at like 7 hours + a consumable kit for the plasma - $25- filler rod $12.00 - electric for the tig and the plasma and cnc table- + metal + obvious overheads such as a building etc. We all know there not free and I'm not trying to make these expensive for anyone - and from what I can tell our prices start at over half of anyone elses and at a low of $100 less but are kits are custom tailored to your application. The biggest thing I'm trying to figure out in this post is what type of applications would people like to see? or prefabbed pieces for an s-10 frame for this truck? different suspension options - watts links - 4 links - gas tank relocators -body to sit higher or lower on the frame- what type of motor / trannys are we talking for crossmembers.... +2 a a-arms interest anyone? Thats more of what I'm trying to find out so I can taylor these kits while were making them and doing all the R&D to fit what you the consumers want.

[weldvair@embarqmail.]

I am not looking for a kit..I was just trying to reply to your request for what people would want. Good luck with your kits.

Don Meyer,Mech Engr

[0ptikal]

I meant no direspect with my comments, I hope you did not take it that way - But it seems the majority of comments have been price- I just want to make sure everyone understands that they will be cheap as possible but unfortunatly to manufactuer a kit thats a clean professional kit that does take expensive tools and time to manufactuer. I've had pm's that have asked if I would take $100 a kit? We're a custom metal fabrication shop - that wouldn't even pay for the metal in the kit.

[49S10]

Optikal-
Let me know when you have your laundry list of parts and pieces and prices. I have two trucks I plan to put on S10's but don't want the full blown kits. Thanks. Larry

[Coogansbluff]

How can I order one. Im not looking for a cheap kit. I want a kit to slam my truck to the ground with bags and would like to box in the frame and use a ladder bar style 2 link. let me know.