Will I kill the value of Barm Find 68 C-10

[3kidsnotime]

Curious as to opinoins on this subject. As most of you I love my truck but I have been pondering getting rid of it for the simple fact it sucks to drive on the freeway and fuel economy.
The truck is a 68 very clean original paint "survivor" 6cyl 3 on the tree 373 gears, very low milage original truck. you run 55 on the freeway here your getting run down and actually creating a problem and chowing gas like no tomorrow.
This is what im thinking I have used T-5 5peed transmissions in some od my muscle cars out of Z28's what I was thinking a S-10 T-5 out of a 4.3 2wd truck will bolt directly in place of the 3 speed I need to open the mount holes on the trans but thats it. They have a quite low first gear and overdrive, I can put a 308 gear in it rear and still have a good out of the hole and then a OD as well and it will shift like a car the S-10 T-5 has a forward mount shifter for seat clearance. I would get a much nicer driving truck be able to run 85 no problrm on the freeway at low rpm and much better milage, The bad I have to cut a hole in the floor shorten the driveline a couple inches and put a truck 4speed column in it, thus changing the survivor statis of it.
So whats everyones opinion on this will I kill the value or make it a better truck possibly worth more?? If I do this I will also do a build step by step on it.

[Bishops Trucks]

It's your truck. Keep the original parts that you take out so if you ever want to put it back to factory you will have what you need. Lets see more pics of that jewel.

[jgrh64]

Originally Posted by Bishops Trucks

It's your truck. Keep the original parts that you take out so if you ever want to put it back to factory you will have what you need. Lets see more pics of that jewel.

[BB72CHEVKT]

I have the same prob so I will be interested in responses. I am finding it very difficult to keep my survior a survivor and drive it every day. I have kept everyting I have removed.

[70rs/ss]

In a short answer, YES you will kill the survivor status, but did you buy it to own and drive or as a retirement/investment deal? If you don't change something that cannot be undone then it'll be OK, just save the parts you are taking out! Heck, just sell/trade it to me as I like it as is!!

[67ChevyRedneck]

I'd do it.

BUT, with OD, I'd leave the 3.73 in it, or maybe find a 3.42 for it.

[lowrollin70gmc]

I say do it, a mod that makes it more drivable makes the pickup more desirable in my opinion.

The older generation may like to see pure stock and pay more, but young bucks want to drive faster/easier, and a 5 speed would be a great way to improve the truck for the better. And future owners are likely now younger guys that want something cool to drive and not putt along at 55 while on a hot date.

Also, these aren't horrible changes. I doubt somebody would notice when they looked in the interior that it had a 5 speed in it. And remember; a hole in the floor can be patched and covered quick, a drive shaft can be put back in, columns can be switched.You're not putting in a sunroof with a torch and a bucket of gasoline.

[jay-dawg]

beautiful truck! If it's not a high optioned truck, then do whatchya like. I agree to keep the original parts just in case.

[CG]

I doubt these trucks will ever be collectible as say a classic car or a muscle car. Yours may be a survivor but its a really low option truck. Not a Cheyenne Super with all the goods.

I say do a really clean install not a hack job. Save all the original parts. That way if you do want to send it down the road some day you will have everything to turn it back to original. The new owner can have the choice of keeping it like you put it to make it more livable or put the original stuff back in.

[pyro883]

I agree with what everyone has said....If its not going to Barret Jackson or sitting in a museum do what you want to enjoy the ride.

[joedoozer]

Inline 6 with an OD tranny. Run 3 single carbs. Center carb for daily driving and the outside 2 for hard acceleration. That should be over 20 mpg on the highway.

[shifty]

Seriously, your truck is the long lost sibling of mine. Spitting image! And I can totally relate to the crappy gas mileage, winding out at 55mph on the interstate, and that's what led me to swapping a modern late-model engine/tranny into mine. I too had the 373s with 3spd on column and inline 6 250ci engine.

If it's all original, low mileage, including paint, I'd have as tough a time as you are cutting into it, for sure. I don't think I could hack it up like that. I'd put that joker on Barrett-Jackson or eBay or something and use the moneys I netted to buy another truck in good shape and use the excess cash you'd have leftover to put something else in it.

BUT

Swapping out the rear gears for something taller might help considerably, because we all know that the 3spds in these trucks have a first gear that is completely worthless. Try going with 3.07s or 3.08s or something. It's something small that doesn't take a lot of work, and it DOES NOT devalue or deface the truck in any way, and it's inexpensive.

Otherwise, consider going with an overdrive setup like the GVOD previously mentioned.

But honestly - I'd swap gears and/or the rear end.

[caminokid]

Originally Posted by shifty

Seriously, your truck is the long lost sibling of mine. Spitting image! And I can totally relate to the crappy gas mileage, winding out at 55mph on the interstate, and that's what led me to swapping a modern late-model engine/tranny into mine. I too had the 373s with 3spd on column and inline 6 250ci engine.

If it's all original, low mileage, including paint, I'd have as tough a time as you are cutting into it, for sure. I don't think I could hack it up like that. I'd put that joker on Barrett-Jackson or eBay or something and use the moneys I netted to buy another truck in good shape and use the excess cash you'd have leftover to put something else in it.

BUT

Swapping out the rear gears for something taller might help considerably, because we all know that the 3spds in these trucks have a first gear that is completely worthless. Try going with 3.07s or 3.08s or something. It's something small that doesn't take a lot of work, and it DOES NOT devalue or deface the truck in any way, and it's inexpensive.

Otherwise, consider going with an overdrive setup like the GVOD previously mentioned.

But honestly - I'd swap gears and/or the rear end.

I was talking to the man that owns the tn truck farm and he told me to keep my 3 speed and go with the 3:08 gears. He said that it would not wind out and be alot better on gas...plus he said the 3 speed is alot better trans.

[Texasdeere]

I would just change the rear end gearing only. Put in a 3.08 gear set with a used carrier from a J-yard. This should solve you main problem of speed and mileage, and the truck will look completely unchanged.

The 3.08 with the overdrive will probably be too tall for the 6 cyl engine. You will have much lower RPMs but poor mileage with this combo.

I would like to see some more pictures of your truck too!

[Brad]

Wow, that's a beautiful, clean truck it appears!
Ok, here are my thoughts on your situation. You mention that your mpg's are really bad. I know that a well tuned L6 should get around 15-18 mpg's at 55 mph. That's an engine in really good shape and tune. While it's obviously more expensive to do a rebuild, and I'm not sure you really need one with yours, I would have a carb shop rebuild yours and check the throttle bores especially. Most of your engine tune will be with the carb, cap, rotor, plugs, and timing. Fix all these and your mileage should increase substantially I'm guessing. Oh, also swap to an HEI if you haven't already done that. I have an all original Camaro and while I kept the old points for years- I got sick of the maintenance and swapped, and have never looked back. It is by far the single best improvement you can do for these L6's.

Now for the rear end gearing.
I've personally tried the 3.08 rearend and it requires more clutch during takeoff from a dead stop. I got tired of it after several months and don't recommend it. Also, if you're actually using your truck to haul anything or tow on a regular basis, I really don't recommend it since it'll decrease mileage and perceived power. 3.08's really only help at highway speeds anyway unless you've got a 383 or 454 or something. Ok, several folks posted just before me and after reading them, I will strongly encourage you not to put 3.08's in it if you're not doing lot's of highway miles regularly!

Finally my thoughts on the T-5.
I would highly recommend you do this swap for your truck if you can get past the originality issue. As much as I'm dying to put a 700r4 in my Camaro, it would kill me to do that swap and at that point, I might as well put in a 350 too! So I understand how you might feel with originality.
Having said that, the Camaro T-5 has been the 2nd best improvement I've done with this truck! I can't overstate that. It has increased not only my mileage, but the fun factor as well! You've got a great 1st gear takeoff (2.95) while having an OD 5th (.73 or .68- I'm not sure yet). Also, the gear shifts are much closer together and the truck gets going alot quicker than those 50% rpm losses with the original trannys.
While I think the T-5 and 4.11 gear ratio would be ideal for me here in the PacificNW and all the mountains and hills we have, I would do the T-5 swap again in a heartbeat with no hesitation on another L6 manual truck.

I hope my experiences have helped you prevent the same mistakes I did when trying to achieve mileage and performance and I've also got more info on another post if you need it here: http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=258692

[3kidsnotime]

Originally Posted by Brad

Wow, that's a beautiful, clean truck it appears!
Ok, here are my thoughts on your situation. You mention that your mpg's are really bad. I know that a well tuned L6 should get around 15-18 mpg's at 55 mph. That's an engine in really good shape and tune. While it's obviously more expensive to do a rebuild, and I'm not sure you really need one with yours, I would have a carb shop rebuild yours and check the throttle bores especially. Most of your engine tune will be with the carb, cap, rotor, plugs, and timing. Fix all these and your mileage should increase substantially I'm guessing. Oh, also swap to an HEI if you haven't already done that. I have an all original Camaro and while I kept the old points for years- I got sick of the maintenance and swapped, and have never looked back. It is by far the single best improvement you can do for these L6's.

Now for the rear end gearing.
I've personally tried the 3.08 rearend and it requires more clutch during takeoff from a dead stop. I got tired of it after several months and don't recommend it. Also, if you're actually using your truck to haul anything or tow on a regular basis, I really don't recommend it since it'll decrease mileage and perceived power. 3.08's really only help at highway speeds anyway unless you've got a 383 or 454 or something. Ok, several folks posted just before me and after reading them, I will strongly encourage you not to put 3.08's in it if you're not doing lot's of highway miles regularly!

Finally my thoughts on the T-5.
I would highly recommend you do this swap for your truck if you can get past the originality issue. As much as I'm dying to put a 700r4 in my Camaro, it would kill me to do that swap and at that point, I might as well put in a 350 too! So I understand how you might feel with originality.
Having said that, the Camaro T-5 has been the 2nd best improvement I've done with this truck! I can't overstate that. It has increased not only my mileage, but the fun factor as well! You've got a great 1st gear takeoff (2.95) while having an OD 5th (.73 or .68- I'm not sure yet). Also, the gear shifts are much closer together and the truck gets going alot quicker than those 50% rpm losses with the original trannys.
While I think the T-5 and 4.11 gear ratio would be ideal for me here in the PacificNW and all the mountains and hills we have, I would do the T-5 swap again in a heartbeat with no hesitation on another L6 manual truck.

I hope my experiences have helped you prevent the same mistakes I did when trying to achieve mileage and performance and I've also got more info on another post if you need it. I'll put the link in this space later today. I've gotta run- I'm late for an app't!

I think the big concern is if people think I will destroy the truck, I like it love it but cant stand to get on the hwy with it. As fas as the running condition of it, it is perfect and I have never let anyone work on my engines or vehicles Im a anal sort.. Now the big problem is If I keep it and start there I have a problem with taking things a little too far, My business did R&D for ATI (procharger) on the marine kits design and engine build on the first big units, so I seem to put them on everything I have quite a few laying around, and I have thought in my head I would do some mods on the 6cyl. The bolt on stuff to the engine does not bother me or mods of that nature I can take them off, but cutting the floor of this truck if it seems to be a big deal to die hards. As far as the engine I have checked it out and it shows 18,500 miles on the truck and I can get away with 10 psi no problem. I would use a marine head unit with a helix impeller it would give alot more low end torque and the HP would kick in alot faster than a comparable auto unit of the same size. Run a clifford 4 intake with a mechanical 450 holley (they work great under psi) and the 5spd with a gear change would be a fun ride, thow on some American Racing Salt Flats wheels and fit the theme.... Here is a pic of me on the Dyno with the very first Big HP procharged engine This was in Auguat of 2000 502 bolt ons nuber 4 unit two 450 holleys made 1200 and some change with 12 psi on pump gas.

[slomotion]

I agree with the rest. First, it's your truck. Second, you won't be doing anything that can't be undone. Third, I suspect the difference in price in a bone-stock survivor, and a streetable useable ride isn't going to be enormous anyway.

Having said that, there may be a little more to installing the T5 than enlarging a couple of holes and mounting the trans. If you're looking to use the Z28 box, you'll want the Sonoma tail shaft to put the shifter in the right place. You didn't say which six you had. If it's the 292, you'll need to fab a bushing to center the trans in the bell housing. There may be an issue with the interface of the T5 input shaft and the recess in the flywheel. There's a couple more little "maybe's" in this swap, but they're well covered in other threads.

I'm not telling you this to turn you off of the project. I agree 100% with Brad, the T5 made my ride a whole different truck, and it was heavy to begin with. The change was worth every bit of the effort it took to do. All I'm suggesting is be careful that you don't over-simplify a project then get discouraged in the middle of it.

If it were mine I'd go for the mods. and enjoy it even more.

Good Luck!

[shifty]

Originally Posted by slomotion

I agree with the rest. First, it's your truck. Second, you won't be doing anything that can't be undone. Third, I suspect the difference in price in a bone-stock survivor, and a streetable useable ride isn't going to be enormous anyway.

People undoubtedly said the same thing about the 70-72 Chevelle and the 67-69 Camaros 15-20 years ago also. With steel prices climbing and people just scrapping these trucks for money, I firmly believe you could very well be eating those words in the next decade or so .

I am normally not one of those "don't cut it up or alter it!" guys --- just look at my truck; It was in pretty darn good shape when I got it and people thought I was nuts also, but my truck had 100k+ miles on it, already had a frame-off resto on it in the past, the cab has been repainted at least twice now (once light metallic green, once the current color), the PO redrilled the bed to skimp on the wood, put all kinds of extra holes in the firewall...and thus is nowhere near "original". this truck he's picturing above is low-mileage, original paint, original components, probably even the original interior - to alter it in any way would truly be a shame.

[3kidsnotime]

Originally Posted by slomotion

I agree with the rest. First, it's your truck. Second, you won't be doing anything that can't be undone. Third, I suspect the difference in price in a bone-stock survivor, and a streetable useable ride isn't going to be enormous anyway.

Having said that, there may be a little more to installing the T5 than enlarging a couple of holes and mounting the trans. If you're looking to use the Z28 box, you'll want the Sonoma tail shaft to put the shifter in the right place. You didn't say which six you had. If it's the 292, you'll need to fab a bushing to center the trans in the bell housing. There may be an issue with the interface of the T5 input shaft and the recess in the flywheel. There's a couple more little "maybe's" in this swap, but they're well covered in other threads.

I'm not telling you this to turn you off of the project. I agree 100% with Brad, the T5 made my ride a whole different truck, and it was heavy to begin with. The change was worth every bit of the effort it took to do. All I'm suggesting is be careful that you don't over-simplify a project then get discouraged in the middle of it.

If it were mine I'd go for the mods. and enjoy it even more.

Good Luck!

If I do it I plan on the T-5 S-10 4.3 box it has the forward mount for the shifter, I will need to change the clutch to a 26 spline the 4.3 trans will have the larger input as the Z28 box versus the other with 10 spline as the truck will have now also. I have used the T-5's on a few of my cars and I have correct bearing supports for the gm bell housing so I will not need to machine anything, the swap does not scare me I just feel a slight churn in my gut about it, But if I keep it it will happen its just the way I am. I think I was trying to see if I am crazy for messing with this truck. If I was I would just send it down the road.

[Brad]

Originally Posted by 3kidsnotime

If I do it I plan on the T-5 S-10 4.3 box it has the forward mount for the shifter, I will need to change the clutch to a 26 spline the 4.3 trans will have the larger input as the Z28 box versus the other with 10 spline as the truck will have now also. I have used the T-5's on a few of my cars and I have correct bearing supports for the gm bell housing so I will not need to machine anything, the swap does not scare me I just feel a slight churn in my gut about it, But if I keep it it will happen its just the way I am. I think I was trying to see if I am crazy for messing with this truck. If I was I would just send it down the road.

Ok, it sounds like you have a bit of experience with the T-5's, however I don't think you're going about this the right way based on my experience. The Camaro T-5 is virtually a bolt on and go trans, besides the driveshaft shortening. The S-10 is not. The gearing is alot different and not as user friendly as the Camaro box. You may be able to change the bearing support so that it doesn't stick out so far, but I'd be curious to know more about this along with pictures. One can also change the tailshaft housing to put the shifter in a bench seat friendly location which I've heard isn't too hard. Quite honestly, I'm a bit skeptical or your plans, based on my own experience, but that doesn't mean it can't be done.

I see now that your post is more geared toward retaining originality and regarding that, I think you should keep it all original or sell it to someone who wants an all original truck. I say don't hack it up if you're not that emotionally involved in it.

[19673ontree]

I will touch on this issue , first as Brad said above complaining about point's ?
this is something I have NEVER understood , I have drove 67 68 69 camaro's and chevelle's and 67 to 72 truck's all over 5 state's for 20 year's WITH POINT'S !!!!!!!!!! and have NEVER had a problem , I had one 69 camaro 355 4 speed that got 26 mpg's and WOULD FLY !!!!!! with point's ,
for the record to date the ONLY gm part that ever left me beside the road was HEI setup in an 82 blazer we had one time , my current 67 camaro has had two set's of point's in 8 year's and 90K mile's ,,,, let's see that about $6 buck's every 4 year's ? I can't figure out why people can't run point's ?


whew now !! my 67 C10 has the original unrebuilt 250 six cylinder (WON'T NEED REBUILT FOR ABOUT 20 OR SO MORE YEAR's) and a 373 rear with 3sp and it get's great gas mileage around here where I live and is perfect for the hill's and stuff around here , but I would agree about freeway driving as I drove my 67 to elizabethton tenn last summer and a 60mph or so it used more gas and I was in everyone's way !!!!!!! so for me I am just gonna drive mine here where I live , but if I had to drive it out on the highway a lot then a 327 (WITH POINT'S) and a higher rear gear would be installed , the six banger would be in the garage corner for future use !!

[TotalChevy1]

Originally Posted by 3kidsnotime

If I do it I plan on the T-5 S-10 4.3 box it has the forward mount for the shifter, I will need to change the clutch to a 26 spline the 4.3 trans will have the larger input as the Z28 box versus the other with 10 spline as the truck will have now also. I have used the T-5's on a few of my cars and I have correct bearing supports for the gm bell housing so I will not need to machine anything, the swap does not scare me I just feel a slight churn in my gut about it, But if I keep it it will happen its just the way I am. I think I was trying to see if I am crazy for messing with this truck. If I was I would just send it down the road.

why not just buy another truck and keep the miles off that one and keep it clean. Sounds like any conversion you do would cost as much as a daily driver would....plus you would have two trucks...that's alway good

[shifty]

If 3.73s are too short, and 3.08s are too tall, then give 3.42s a try. sounds like a good compromise that will not have you winding out completely.

meanwhile, here's another thing you can do to improve efficiency pretty easily, and drastically improve cold starts:
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

get a conversion kit from Pertronix to convert your point system distributor into a modern electronic setup using the same stock distributor, i've seen the swap, it's incredibly easy - i have video footage of it from TV somewhere on my Tivo if you can't figure out the install. basically this will give you more reliable starts, stronger spark - NO adjusting/tuning like you have with points. you will need to find the correct Pertronix unit for your truck (the one i linked may not be right - call Pertronix directly to find the right one!) you will also need to re-gap your plugs from .30/.35 up to either .40/.45 (i forget) after the install.

you'll be amazed at what happens when you get rid of those points - i know i sure as hell was.

[shifty]

Here is a picture-by-picture idea of how to install the Pertronix points-to-HEI coversion kit:

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...park/index.php

It's pretty simple.

[wibilly]

i say do it. if it is not practical for your intended use it is useless. it can be done without it being butchered and will be much more user friendly and enjoyable, you will be glad you did