Patch Panel Questions........

[sixnine]

I'd like to replace the rockers and maybe the cab corners on my '69 myself. Eastwood has a "weldless kit" that includes a 1" flanger, a dimple tool, panel adhesive, compression pliers, and panel holders. The idea is, with the advances made in adhesive technology, you can use high-tech epoxy to bond non-structural panels. I don't have a welder, and besides, it's cheaper and won't warp the surrounding metal. Now to my question, since you can't use a butt joint with this process, what's the proper technique when flanging panels? Do you flange the edge of the existing metal, or do you flange the edge of the patch panel itself? I'm hoping to get a digital camera soon so I can take some progress pics using this new method for replacing panels. Thanks guys.

[bigvinnie]

I've not seen or heard of anyone using adhesive for anything other than entire door skins, but I did see an article where they did cab corners and the existing metal was flanged.... I believe some sort of rivet was used for the attachment, piss poor way to do it in my opinion...

Too bad you don't know how to use a MIG welder, you could rent one and do it right the first time... no warpage and no seams....

[Canada20]

A friend of mine works in a body shop and he told me about this stuff too; turns out a lot of body shops are using this probably 90% of the time. It's supposed to work better than welding because it seals the panels together while bonding them. Different grades of the stuff too; ones that set up faster or slower depending on what your needs are.I didin't know about the flanging kit; sounds like a great idea. I'd been wondering about how to mount things flush (thought of using a strip of metal in behind to cover the gap that butting the new metal against old would create and then using angel hair to fill things in). I don't think I'm going to use it for anything structural like floor supports or torque boxes or anything though.

These guys have lots of good info and the forum members are pretty experienced.

http://www.autobodystore.com/cgi-bin/config.pl?index


Hope that helps,

Greg

[Hooter]

I had the wheel well patches "glued" on my 77 Silverado 2 years ago. Well now the 3M adhiesive is started to break down and you can see the boxside coming off. Even worse is now water has gotten behind the panel and is now bubling pretty bad in two spots. Not making that mistake twice. This time cut the crappy metal out and weld in good metal. I dont trust gluing metal to metal one bit anymore. It was all done properly with no residue just isnt as good as welding in my opinion

[ebfabman]

If you're working with plastic or composite panels chemical bonding is ok, but if you are working with metal there is no substitute for metal working. Gluing together metal panels, IMO, is temporary at best and I would not expect it to stay together. So if you are going to spend the time and money on refinish materials to do the body work and paint your truck, do it right, forget the glue. Weld your metal panels together.

[Canada20]

That fibreglass - metal bonding stuff must be inferior too, I bet?

Greg

[sixnine]

I read about the process in the October 2002 issue of Street Rodder Magazine. They state that most non-structural repairs are made using this system nowadays, even metal to metal repairs. The glue is not any ordinary epoxy, but a high-tech adhesive that was only available to car manufacturers in large quantities. Seems that new car manufacturers use it in the assembly process. Eastwood got their hands on it and now offers it to the hobbyist. The glued panels are reinforced with flush surface rivets.

[crazy longhorn]

Im from the 'old school", IMO steel is posta be welded. A mig welder is the easiet welder to learn how to use, & while the initial outlay will make the first job a little pricey.....you will still have that welder to use! The tin work I have done on my old longhorn has paid for that little 100 amp lincoln many times over......i cant afford to pay somebody else to do it.

[Shane]

no matter how ya look at it....and regardless of how "hi-tech" it is... Glue is still Glue. You are only taking two pieces of material and "sticking" them together.

On the other hand, welding, when done right, is taking two peices of material and physcially making one piece out of it.

I would suggest welding any patch panels.....leave the "super glue" to model cars.....

[Zeke]

Rotor blades on helicopters are bonded together and they take a lot more abuse than any panel on a vehicle. The stuff is not cheap, you must mix exact amounts and sure both parts are super clean. I am not familiar with what Eastwood sells but I would go with MIG welding. I think it would be easier, less expensive and you would have better piece of mind in the long run. Just my .02

[sbrban]

I've been "gluing" outer quarters,door skins,and roofs for about 4-5 years now. I can't give an exact percentage but a lot of late model vehicles are 'bonded' together these days. Some of the main reasons are that today's vehicle are a lot thinner gauge steel - meaning it's a little tougher to weld-easier to glue.With spot welds you have to space between the welds-when the panel is "glued" you have a constant contact point along the entire area.Another bonus (in the eye of the manufacturer) is by putting the glue along both sides of the metal you have a barrier to help prevent rust(no bare metal exposed) and minimize metal vibration and squeaking.If yuov'e ever had to chase down a "metal sqeaking sound" in a brand new car you know what I mean.....That being said(sorry so lengthy) I've repaired vehicles to pre-accident condition- to me that means fix it like it was built from the factory- if they didn't use glue in '72 then neither should you! but that's just this dumb bodyman's opinion. If you do decide to glue, duramix is my choice rather than eastwood.

[tymberwolf95]

i work with these bonding materials on a daily basis in the military for aircraft and some are strong enough to hold aircraft together but if you want it to last for years to come i would weld it myself

[bobs409]

It figures "new cars" being the reason for this stuff. New cars are crap! Leave the glue for them and weld for the real vehicles! We have good old American steel in our trucks unlike the new vehicles that are made mostly of plastic.

It doesn't surprise me that the car manufacturers are using glue to assemble their cars. Put them together faster and still raise the prices. JUNK!

I rest my case...