Starter help!!!!

[Dtech]

hey guys. I am new to this forum and am currently trying to get my freshly rebuilt engine good and going. I have taken gobs of phots of this project and have tried to upload them but the website will not let me.

So here is my problem.

I rebuilt the motor and installed the trans and the starter onto the motor and THEN put it in to the truck.

The starter used is the same one that did the job fine before the old engine came out.

The fly wheel is the same fly wheel that came off the old engine.

No shims on original starter.

Put motor in, starter worked fine. For a bit. During preliminary adjustments. The starter when used began to grind horrifically, mixed in with clicking. Then after trying is a bunch it resorted to just clicking.

Pulled starter off and notice, starter grear jammed against flywheel.

Pulled it out, bought new one. But bought it for a 75 chevy C20 on the basis that I assumed all small block starters a pretty much the same.

Had to buy longer bolts.

Installed starter.

On first try it did the same (&*^%(&*%$&*(% thing. Got shims and began a shimmin. Went below and saw once again the starter gear jammed against the flywheel, not retracted. Every time I shimmed it (to get the starter gear closer to the block because when it got jammed it would be gear teeth on top of gear teeth), it would work fine for the first 2 tries and then restort to horiffic grinding. I shimmed it as much as 7/32 of an inch and still the starter is being a little &%. Every time I shim it closer it seems to be better but resorts to grinding in 2 tries. I am too frustrated to continue to night.

One other point. Some douchebag did a douchebag job on installing helicoils for the starter threads but the bolts "seem" to hold fine.

Please help. Maybe the fly wheel is bent cause it seems to have a bad spot. But the wheel looks to be in good condition, no missing or badly worn teeth.

Thanks

[JimKshortstep4x4]

Which starter/flywheel combination do you have? There are two sizes of flywheels with the larger flywheel matched up to the starter with the offset bolt pattern?

The smaller starter/flywheel combination has a starter that mounts with two bolts that are both 90 degrees with the engine.

Jim

Jim

[70Custom10Nut]

Another line of questions. What size/year is the engine block? Do you have an Auto or manual tranny? Did you change trannys in the build up? This will tell if you have/need a flexplate or flywheel. Your problem may be bendix housing on on your starter. the older ones have a flat spot next to the tranny to clear the housing. to the untrained eye all starters look alike, but the similarities stop at the motor. the housings are made to clear the tranny depending on the year and tranny type. When I went through all this, my problem boiled down to the housing hitting on the tranny. I could get it tight but it never worked right. Once you get the right combo you shouldn't need shims at all.. Good luck an be patient, it's not you trucks fault. Cnut

[70Custom10Nut]

Another starter issue. I feel for ya bro! I went through your issue about ten years ago. To add to the question, Do you have a flywheel or flexplate? Stay away from discount shops for trying to get "the right one". The kid behind the counter only knows what the computer screen tells him. Go to a reputable shop that does this stuff daily. If someone did a cobble job before, consider going back to factory original. May cost you a little more up front but then the problem is fixed and you can move on. Any more questions just ask. Cnut

[68gmsee]

I checked under your stats to see if you had vehicle specs... Do you have an automatic or standard trans?

From the way you're describing the problem, and assuming that absolutely nothing happened to the starter from the time you requilt the engine, I would suspect the flywheel at this time. I would look at it very close before trying another starter even though it's possible you got a new defective one. I wouldn't think that a starter would get out of alignment after a rebuild.

Keep us posted on what you find.

[piecesparts]

If you don't know what size flex-plate or flywheel that you have, then you may have to crawl under the truck and actually count the teeth on the plate. That will take some time, but in the long run will make it easier to make your choices on starters. The smaller plate tooth count would be 153 teeth and the larger would be more, I believe 161 teeth. Mark your flexplate with a "Sharpie" marker to make it easier to count and NOT loose track of where you are.

Once you know that, the choice at the parts store is more defined---if you can get someone other than a Ricer fanatic to sell you parts, they will know what you are talking about. The small block GM engines run two different bolt patterns for the starters and many blocks have bolt holes for both styles of starters. The smaller tooth plates use a bolt pattern that is straight across from each other and the larger flexplates use a bolt pattern that is offset between the holes. Know this info FIRST and then buy what you need.

Now if you are mounting a starter, the chance of using a shim is ALWAYS there. Have a shim set available, maybe two. I have even used a shim on ONLY one bolt and not the other to get the proper spacing in the tooth engagement. I also take the starter solenoid off of the starter and engage the teeth manually to get a good measurement of the spacing in the tooth bottom so that I am sure that it works right. Get a "Standard" large paperclip from school, home, or office and use it as your gauge wire for the depth. That paperclip is real close to the .020" measurement that is required for proper engagement. Next check the starter drive teeth to the flexplate spacing at the bottom of the groove or valley of the tooth with the starter gear extended into the flexplate. Once you have the right depth, remove all and reinstall the solenoid onto the starter and mount it to the engine.

[Wrenchbender Ret]

Adding shims moves the starter away from the flywheel. Sounds like you need to get it closer. These aftermarket drive end housings that the re builders use are not all that precision . I have a big rough file I go across the mounting surface of the starter with. Often the metal is pulled up around the bolt holes. This almost always solves this problem.

[tim21391]

i dont use any shims in my 72 and its been fine

[Dtech]

Hey guys thanks for you help.

The truck is a 1969 C20 CST, just rebuilt 350 eng and Turbo 400 trans. This is the sequence. The I took the original starter and flexplate off the old engine and put it on the new engine. The bolt pattern on that was diagonal, the starter worked fine on the old engine. I do not know the tooth count on it.

When I started it for the first time. It worked fine. Then after about 8th or so time it crapped out on me, by juct clicking and a grinding. So I got a new one. This one however was for a 75 chevy, the only difference was the longer bolts I had to buy. I did go get the flexplate that came off the engine thats in the truck now. It's in great shape.

Tomorrow I will count the the teeth on the flexplate. And get back to you guys.

Thanks here is a pic of the truck before I put the motor in.