'72 pickup with a '69 VIN? - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

skyhack · 07-02-2009, 09:37 AM

I recently acquired a 1972 long bed Fleetside that had been in my wife's family. Her grandfather bought it *EDIT ALMOST NEW LOW (2500) MILEAGE*, paid cash for it. It was trimmed out in the gold on white Cheyenne package. I first saw the truck in 1978, and noticed it had paint on the edges of the taillights, as if it had been repainted. When I asked about it, I was told that it had come from the dealer that way. It also had no power steering or air, and a 2bbl carburetor, which I thought was strange for the Cheyenne package.

Fast forward to 2006, my brother in law had the truck, and snooped around on it , and discovered that the truck was originally painted light blue. He had it painted a similar, but incorrect, color. It was a shock, after seeing the truck in gold and white for so long! Otherwise, the truck was "original".

Now I have the truck, got it running and licensed. The title from Nebraska (2nd title, original was Wyoming) stated that it is a 1972, and that's what's on my Colorado title. When I went to figure out the original trim, though, I REALLY got a shock. The VIN (CE 149S801014) is a 1969! The VIN is on the driver's side door jamb, nothing on the dash. The complete VIN is CE 149S801014 DD as on the door jamb. I have no idea what the "DD" means, or why it isn't on the title.

I have my suspicions that this was a dealer "restyle" of a 1969 Custom 10 that either didn't sell, or was taken in as trade, restyled, and sold as new.

So, as a purist, should I restore it to the title year, or the VIN year? If I go with title year, should I make it a Custom 10 or a Cheyenne?

Anyone out there have a similar story?

ChevLoRay · 07-02-2009, 09:44 AM

Welcome the the board, from the Heart of Arkansas!

Lotta issues, huh? Based on the VIN, your truck was built in St. Louis, MO. I have had two '69's, both with the same "8" in the VIN as yours.

Look on the inside of the glove box door. Is the SPID sheet still attached to the door? Does the VIN match the others? As for there being a VIN on the dash, that didn't begin until into the Seventies. If all three VIN's match, then I don't have an answer to your question.

However, the possibility exists that your truck had the "rare" Cadillac bumper extensions on the front end, which is why the "DD" is there, signifying the size of bra it would need for adequate "protection"....

**fine69** · 07-02-2009, 10:36 AM

Sounds like you have lots of unanswered questions. hmmmmmm

Just be patient and you will get them all answered here. You will be glad you found this place.

**LockDoc** · 07-02-2009, 10:54 AM

-
On the drivers side frame rail, by the steering box there should be a vin # stamped. You may have to use a wire brush or sandpaper to clean the frame. See if it matches.

LockDoc

Longhorn Man · 07-02-2009, 03:47 PM

the dealer would not have redone it and sold it as a laterr model, they woudn't be able to do that per federal guidelines. (smog & safety laws)
There's all kinds of reasons as to why it is what it is, and it probably boils down to grandpa didn't know what he was getting when he first got it, or his memory isn't what it used to be.
If the VIN on the SPID and frame match the cab... then it is safe to say someone updated the grill and slapped some badges on it.
As for the 2bbl and lack of power steering and A/C... those were all options on top of the option packages... the packages were pretty much just trim.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/Chevyear.html is a great VIN decoder right here on this site, and below that is a model number decoder that is also great.
The 801014 in the VIN does not mske it a real high production number, it actuually means the oposite. On the plants that had 2 assembly lines for the same model vehicle, the first one to roll off he main line got a number of 100001. The forst one off the second line would be 800001. So in reality, if we were to assume the second assembly line was already going when the model year 69 truck started, then you actually have a very early 69... probably late summer 68 as a build date. There may still be a sticker on the drivers side door that gives the VIN and moth/year the truck was built.
If you could post some photos of your truck, we can help you figure out what it is you have.

skyhack · 07-04-2009, 12:21 PM

Thanks, guys, I'll check the rest of the VIN locations, post some photos, and check back. On another note, I did attempt to get a master cylinder with booster for this truck, and neither the 1969 or 1972 will fit!

skyhack · 07-09-2009, 10:09 PM

Well, the cab vins (door and glove box) match, glove box says it had a Powerglide tranny (2 speed auto?), Posi rear end, model is CE10934.

Looking further, I cleaned off the fender tag, it says the engine is the rare "small bore" 350, also known as a 307. I looked again at the engine tag, it is, indeed a 307. (V0901TDA) VIN is not stamped by the engine number, haven't checked by the oil filter or flywheel.

Frame is stamped 72J107062 near the steering box. Not sure WHAT that means.

Glove box door items

VIN CE149S801014. Tranny 4M35GA "Powergilde". Paint 4537AD white, light blue. Differential 4G80AA Positraction. 4Z52AA Full Foam Seat!! : )
4606BD Blue Vinyl trim.

I'd sure like to know how it got titled as a 1972!!

On the pics- Front quarter view, fender tags say 8/350, Engine, definitely a 307? Note gold paint on driver side fender. Interior shows original blue on kick panel and above visor.

71swb4x4 · 07-09-2009, 10:45 PM

It has 72 door panels. Is it possible that the cab was switched out at one time? Maybe it was in an accident, and a 69 cab was put on??? The frame VIN may provide some clues.

Stoney · 07-09-2009, 10:53 PM

Doesn't have a 72 gas pedal

skyhack · 07-09-2009, 11:00 PM

I'm starting to think that this is the most likely scenario. The truck really is a 1972 that was wrecked while almost new. The cab was probably replaced with the '69 by the dealer's shop, front fenders put on (complete with 8/350 tags) painted and trimmed as a Cheyenne, and sold to my wife's grandfather, and all was legit. Not nearly as much fun as what I WAS thinking, though.

Thanks, 71swb4x4, for your insight, LocDoc for the frame VIN tip, Longhorn Man for all the great info on the trim packages, and ChevLoRay for the quick reply.

Stoney, I noticed the pedal, too. There's a '72 pedal in the glove box that's been in there since 1978! 8D

I'm thinking I'll get the VIN redone here in Colorado to match the frame, and fix it up as a '72 Custom 10. I'll put pickup rallys on it (I love those wheels), warm up the 307, and do a frame off later. It's a great truck, and you guys have a great site!

skyhack · 07-09-2009, 11:49 PM

Just a thought. If the cab was replaced, I'm thinking the bed may give me the best clue as to what the original paint was. If, through a little forensic research, I find that the bed was originally painted as a Cheyenne, that's what I'll make it. If I don't find anything conclusive, then it's a Custom 10.

The more I dive into this truck, the more interesting it is.

sameyrasmea72 · 07-10-2009, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyhack

Just a thought. If the cab was replaced, I'm thinking the bed may give me the best clue as to what the original paint was. If, through a little forensic research, I find that the bed was originally painted as a Cheyenne, that's what I'll make it. If I don't find anything conclusive, then it's a Custom 10.

The more I dive into this truck, the more interesting it is.

How can you tell if the bed was originally painted as a Cheyenne? I'm

Longhorn Man · 07-10-2009, 05:22 AM

i agree, the cab got swapped out at one point. The frame is a 72, the doors, grill, it's all 72 except the cab and VIN.

**mikey531** · 07-10-2009, 08:22 AM

ok now I am confused. I thought I bought a 1969 GMC but now it looks like it is a 1970? These are the numbers I found:
CS10C-TA11188 on the door frame
CS1570C in the glove box
Anyone know what I bought?
Thanks

Rod · 07-12-2009, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikey531

ok now I am confused. I thought I bought a 1969 GMC but now it looks like it is a 1970? These are the numbers I found:
CS10C-TA11188 on the door frame
CS1570C in the glove box
Anyone know what I bought?
Thanks

Simple, it s 69 GMC fenderside shortbox 6 cyl.

C= Conventinal cab
S = six cylinder
1= 1/2 ton gvw
0C = fenderside box
- no state code identifier
T = Terrytown assembly plant
A = 1969
11188 is sequence vin number off assembly line

Your glove box number can be decoded using the same typical decoding codes, but the 57 means the wheel base to axle dimension so is a fenderside (stepside) short box.

And DD on the vin plate means Delivery Date, which are typically left blank unless typically factory ordered to the dealership. DD should not be part of someones vin, as it on a lower portion on the identification plate.

skyhack · 07-10-2009, 09:57 AM

sameyrasmea72 - Since I know the bed was repainted (paint on taillights). and I'm reasonably sure that it is the original bed, I'll just do a little digging in the paint to find out what the original factory color is. If it's gold over white, I'll build a Cheyenne and go as original as I can. If it's not, then I'll build a warmed up Custom 10. Either way, I'm happy, as long as I can put Bowtie Rally wheels on it and get the VIN situation straightened out.

MIKEYS-Check the frame VIN by the steering box!

**mikey531** · 07-10-2009, 12:49 PM

I wiped a little dust from around the steering box and all I could find was TA111 right behind the front crossmember.

Blue71LWB · 07-10-2009, 01:34 PM

Skyhack,
A 69 model had the rearview mirror attached to the roof of the cab, right above the windshield. If you look close you might be able to find evidence that a rear view has been attached. If this is the case , it's not a 72 cab.

Thanks,
Zac

Longhorn Man · 07-10-2009, 01:43 PM

the mirror was optional till 70, and since that SPID says nothing about a mirror, the holes may not be there.
There's enough proof of a cab swap here, i don't think it is in question anymore.

skyhack · 07-11-2009, 01:18 PM

OK, guys, I know I'm opening a REAL can of worms, here, but...

If I get the VIN corrected with the state to match the frame VIN, and I replace the sill and jamb sheet metal on the cab with '72 (so I have the jamb vents), is it legally possible to get a VIN tag?

**mikey531** · 07-11-2009, 01:36 PM

anyone know what year mine is ???

Longhorn Man · 07-11-2009, 05:47 PM

instead of hijacing this thread, if you were start your own thread, you may get someone who knows how to decode GNC vins to look at it.

big mike71 · 07-11-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longhorn Man

instead of hijacing this thread, if you were start your own thread, you may get someone who knows how to decode GNC vins to look at it.

Don't be to hard on him, at least he's a site supporter.

**mikey531** · 07-11-2009, 05:54 PM

sorry I didn't know

Longhorn Man · 07-11-2009, 10:17 PM

sorry... i did not mean to come across as an A hole.
That was not my intention, but scrolling up, I see that's what it looked like.
Again, sorry man.

07-02-2009, 09:37 AM	#1
skyhack Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Berthoud, Colorado Posts: 12	'72 pickup with a '69 VIN? I recently acquired a 1972 long bed Fleetside that had been in my wife's family. Her grandfather bought it EDIT ALMOST NEW LOW (2500) MILEAGE, paid cash for it. It was trimmed out in the gold on white Cheyenne package. I first saw the truck in 1978, and noticed it had paint on the edges of the taillights, as if it had been repainted. When I asked about it, I was told that it had come from the dealer that way. It also had no power steering or air, and a 2bbl carburetor, which I thought was strange for the Cheyenne package. Fast forward to 2006, my brother in law had the truck, and snooped around on it , and discovered that the truck was originally painted light blue. He had it painted a similar, but incorrect, color. It was a shock, after seeing the truck in gold and white for so long! Otherwise, the truck was "original". Now I have the truck, got it running and licensed. The title from Nebraska (2nd title, original was Wyoming) stated that it is a 1972, and that's what's on my Colorado title. When I went to figure out the original trim, though, I REALLY got a shock. The VIN (CE 149S801014) is a 1969! The VIN is on the driver's side door jamb, nothing on the dash. The complete VIN is CE 149S801014 DD as on the door jamb. I have no idea what the "DD" means, or why it isn't on the title. I have my suspicions that this was a dealer "restyle" of a 1969 Custom 10 that either didn't sell, or was taken in as trade, restyled, and sold as new. So, as a purist, should I restore it to the title year, or the VIN year? If I go with title year, should I make it a Custom 10 or a Cheyenne? Anyone out there have a similar story? Last edited by skyhack; 07-11-2009 at 01:11 PM.

07-02-2009, 09:44 AM	#2
ChevLoRay Old Skool Club Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Benton, AR "The Heart of Arkansas" Posts: 10,880	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? Welcome the the board, from the Heart of Arkansas! Lotta issues, huh? Based on the VIN, your truck was built in St. Louis, MO. I have had two '69's, both with the same "8" in the VIN as yours. Look on the inside of the glove box door. Is the SPID sheet still attached to the door? Does the VIN match the others? As for there being a VIN on the dash, that didn't begin until into the Seventies. If all three VIN's match, then I don't have an answer to your question. However, the possibility exists that your truck had the "rare" Cadillac bumper extensions on the front end, which is why the "DD" is there, signifying the size of bra it would need for adequate "protection".... __________________ Member Nr. 2770 '96 GMC Sportside; 4.3/SLT - Daily driven....constantly needs washed. '69 C-10 SWB; 350/TH400 - in limbo The older I get, the better I was.

07-02-2009, 10:36 AM	#3
fine69 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Urbana,Ohio,USA Posts: 4,618	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? Sounds like you have lots of unanswered questions. hmmmmmm Just be patient and you will get them all answered here. You will be glad you found this place. __________________ 2008 Chevy HHR 1/2 panel. 1949 Chevy Panel truck(just sittin, waiting) Board member #6

07-02-2009, 10:54 AM	#4
LockDoc The Older Generation Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Montezuma, Iowa Posts: 25,406	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? - On the drivers side frame rail, by the steering box there should be a vin # stamped. You may have to use a wire brush or sandpaper to clean the frame. See if it matches. LockDoc __________________ Leon Locksmith, Specializing In Antique Trucks, Automobiles, & Motorcycles (My Dually Pickup Project Thread) http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=829820 -

07-02-2009, 03:47 PM	#5
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? the dealer would not have redone it and sold it as a laterr model, they woudn't be able to do that per federal guidelines. (smog & safety laws) There's all kinds of reasons as to why it is what it is, and it probably boils down to grandpa didn't know what he was getting when he first got it, or his memory isn't what it used to be. If the VIN on the SPID and frame match the cab... then it is safe to say someone updated the grill and slapped some badges on it. As for the 2bbl and lack of power steering and A/C... those were all options on top of the option packages... the packages were pretty much just trim. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/Chevyear.html is a great VIN decoder right here on this site, and below that is a model number decoder that is also great. The 801014 in the VIN does not mske it a real high production number, it actuually means the oposite. On the plants that had 2 assembly lines for the same model vehicle, the first one to roll off he main line got a number of 100001. The forst one off the second line would be 800001. So in reality, if we were to assume the second assembly line was already going when the model year 69 truck started, then you actually have a very early 69... probably late summer 68 as a build date. There may still be a sticker on the drivers side door that gives the VIN and moth/year the truck was built. If you could post some photos of your truck, we can help you figure out what it is you have.

07-04-2009, 12:21 PM	#6
skyhack Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Berthoud, Colorado Posts: 12	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? Thanks, guys, I'll check the rest of the VIN locations, post some photos, and check back. On another note, I did attempt to get a master cylinder with booster for this truck, and neither the 1969 or 1972 will fit!

07-09-2009, 10:09 PM	#7
skyhack Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Berthoud, Colorado Posts: 12	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? Well, the cab vins (door and glove box) match, glove box says it had a Powerglide tranny (2 speed auto?), Posi rear end, model is CE10934. Looking further, I cleaned off the fender tag, it says the engine is the rare "small bore" 350, also known as a 307. I looked again at the engine tag, it is, indeed a 307. (V0901TDA) VIN is not stamped by the engine number, haven't checked by the oil filter or flywheel. Frame is stamped 72J107062 near the steering box. Not sure WHAT that means. Glove box door items VIN CE149S801014. Tranny 4M35GA "Powergilde". Paint 4537AD white, light blue. Differential 4G80AA Positraction. 4Z52AA Full Foam Seat!! : ) 4606BD Blue Vinyl trim. I'd sure like to know how it got titled as a 1972!! On the pics- Front quarter view, fender tags say 8/350, Engine, definitely a 307? Note gold paint on driver side fender. Interior shows original blue on kick panel and above visor. Attached Images Last edited by skyhack; 07-09-2009 at 10:10 PM. Reason: Attachments

07-09-2009, 10:45 PM	#8
71swb4x4 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Brookings, SD Posts: 10,497	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? It has 72 door panels. Is it possible that the cab was switched out at one time? Maybe it was in an accident, and a 69 cab was put on??? The frame VIN may provide some clues. __________________ Some people are like slinkies, they aren't good for anything, but you can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

07-09-2009, 10:53 PM	#9
Stoney Farm Truck Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Jersey Village, Texas Posts: 547	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? Doesn't have a 72 gas pedal __________________ 1969 CST/10 1984 K5 Blazer 4x4 2016 Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Mike Jersey Village, Tx

07-09-2009, 11:00 PM	#10
skyhack Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Berthoud, Colorado Posts: 12	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? I'm starting to think that this is the most likely scenario. The truck really is a 1972 that was wrecked while almost new. The cab was probably replaced with the '69 by the dealer's shop, front fenders put on (complete with 8/350 tags) painted and trimmed as a Cheyenne, and sold to my wife's grandfather, and all was legit. Not nearly as much fun as what I WAS thinking, though. Thanks, 71swb4x4, for your insight, LocDoc for the frame VIN tip, Longhorn Man for all the great info on the trim packages, and ChevLoRay for the quick reply. Stoney, I noticed the pedal, too. There's a '72 pedal in the glove box that's been in there since 1978! 8D I'm thinking I'll get the VIN redone here in Colorado to match the frame, and fix it up as a '72 Custom 10. I'll put pickup rallys on it (I love those wheels), warm up the 307, and do a frame off later. It's a great truck, and you guys have a great site! Last edited by skyhack; 07-09-2009 at 11:04 PM.

07-09-2009, 11:49 PM	#11
skyhack Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Berthoud, Colorado Posts: 12	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? Just a thought. If the cab was replaced, I'm thinking the bed may give me the best clue as to what the original paint was. If, through a little forensic research, I find that the bed was originally painted as a Cheyenne, that's what I'll make it. If I don't find anything conclusive, then it's a Custom 10. The more I dive into this truck, the more interesting it is.

07-10-2009, 05:22 AM	#13
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? i agree, the cab got swapped out at one point. The frame is a 72, the doors, grill, it's all 72 except the cab and VIN.

07-10-2009, 08:22 AM	#14
mikey531 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Exeter, NH Posts: 786	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? ok now I am confused. I thought I bought a 1969 GMC but now it looks like it is a 1970? These are the numbers I found: CS10C-TA11188 on the door frame CS1570C in the glove box Anyone know what I bought? Thanks

07-10-2009, 09:57 AM	#16
skyhack Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Berthoud, Colorado Posts: 12	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? sameyrasmea72 - Since I know the bed was repainted (paint on taillights). and I'm reasonably sure that it is the original bed, I'll just do a little digging in the paint to find out what the original factory color is. If it's gold over white, I'll build a Cheyenne and go as original as I can. If it's not, then I'll build a warmed up Custom 10. Either way, I'm happy, as long as I can put Bowtie Rally wheels on it and get the VIN situation straightened out. MIKEYS-Check the frame VIN by the steering box!

07-10-2009, 12:49 PM	#17
mikey531 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Exeter, NH Posts: 786	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? I wiped a little dust from around the steering box and all I could find was TA111 right behind the front crossmember.



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07-10-2009, 01:34 PM	#18
Blue71LWB Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 120	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? Skyhack, A 69 model had the rearview mirror attached to the roof of the cab, right above the windshield. If you look close you might be able to find evidence that a rear view has been attached. If this is the case , it's not a 72 cab. Thanks, Zac __________________ Working on my first 1,000 post. I'm sure I'll get there before this project is over .

07-10-2009, 01:43 PM	#19
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? the mirror was optional till 70, and since that SPID says nothing about a mirror, the holes may not be there. There's enough proof of a cab swap here, i don't think it is in question anymore.

07-11-2009, 01:18 PM	#20
skyhack Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Berthoud, Colorado Posts: 12	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? OK, guys, I know I'm opening a REAL can of worms, here, but... If I get the VIN corrected with the state to match the frame VIN, and I replace the sill and jamb sheet metal on the cab with '72 (so I have the jamb vents), is it legally possible to get a VIN tag? Last edited by skyhack; 07-11-2009 at 01:21 PM.

07-11-2009, 01:36 PM	#21
mikey531 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Exeter, NH Posts: 786	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? anyone know what year mine is ???

07-11-2009, 05:47 PM	#22
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? instead of hijacing this thread, if you were start your own thread, you may get someone who knows how to decode GNC vins to look at it.

07-11-2009, 05:54 PM	#24
mikey531 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Exeter, NH Posts: 786	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? sorry I didn't know

07-11-2009, 10:17 PM	#25
Longhorn Man its all about the +6 inches Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Hilliard Ohio Posts: 2,693	Re: '72 pickup with a '69 VIN? sorry... i did not mean to come across as an A hole. That was not my intention, but scrolling up, I see that's what it looked like. Again, sorry man.

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