What is the best front suspension for a 1951 Chevy?

[50Bow-tied GMC]

What is the best front suspension to use on a 1951 Chevy? I am wanting to put my truck on a 1968 frame, but running into a few issues with the steering box. I want to get some of the updates that are on a later model, but want to use the 1968 frame.

[mr48chev]

I think it was covered before but that 68 frame/chassis just does not make a great swap in one of the trucks.
Sometimes you just have to get past the "I got it for free I'm gonna use it" syndrome and use something that really works to make a first class truck out of it. Not to say that it can't be done and drive ok but usually the wheels will stick out of the fenders too far and the truck will sit way too high for most guys who build custom trucks.
I'm not a big fan of sticking the S-10 chassis under the trucks but it is a far better choice to get a good looking and good driving truck out of the deal.
If you can't weld and don't mind spending the extra cash there are a couple of bolt on Mustang II cross members that only require a half inch electric drill, hand full of wrenches and tape measure to install.
I just got an email from Welder Series this morning http://www.welderseries.com/blog/200...eid=50aa7100c7 that says that Trucks TV is going to install one of their kits on a 49 on one of the early September shows. I'll have the dvr set for that as that is the unit I intend to use on my truck.

[robin58]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

.
I just got an email from Welder Series this morning http://www.welderseries.com/blog/200...eid=50aa7100c7 that says that Trucks TV is going to install one of their kits on a 49 on one of the early September shows. I'll have the dvr set for that as that is the unit I intend to use on my truck.

I saw that episode of Trucks after they got the 49 and took it for a spin. I'm all for modifying 95% of the time, but the truck they acquired for this venture is in such great condition and so near 100% original and running it seems a shame to chop it all up. With all the less than perfect ones that are available it just makes me wonder why they're going that route. I'd have to think someone looking to run a 100% original truck would be happy to take it off their hands for a sum that would allow them to buy a multitude of less than perfect AD trucks.

Sorry for the hijack.

[ChuckDriver]

I'd vote for the MII setup from one of the many vendors that offer them.

[Atomsplitter]

Just make sure you don't cheap out and buy the MII IFS with the narrow (original style) lower a-arms that use the support struts. I have one in my truck and my turning radius is very wide because my tires hit the support struts.

[steve53]

Originally Posted by Atomsplitter

Just make sure you don't cheap out and buy the MII IFS with the narrow (original style) lower a-arms that use the support struts. I have one in my truck and my turning radius is very wide because my tires hit the support struts.

where did you get your mII IFS from? i would like to see some pics of what you mean.

[robin58]

Not to start a debate, but I think there are some serious considerations that anyone should give prior to eliminating that lower strut rod support. Ford put it there for a reason. There have been numerous documented failures of MII's with the eliminator style lower control arms. If you haven't yet done so, read up some at for example hotrodders (search for strut eliminator) about the potential issues. Personally I'd put up with a bigger turning circle.

[Kabwe]

If you are concerned with this just completely box your cross member (the tubular a arms will mount on the outside of the cross member) and I also welded a bracket to my frame that will allow me to bolt the a arm to cross member and through the frame for extra safety. You can see my frame in my build thread. I've made some changes to the frame since that pic but that part is the same.

[Atomsplitter]

Robin58

Not to start a debate, but I think there are some serious considerations that anyone should give prior to eliminating that lower strut rod support. Ford put it there for a reason. There have been numerous documented failures of MII's with the eliminator style lower control arms. If you haven't yet done so, read up some at for example hotrodders (search for strut eliminator) about the potential issues. Personally I'd put up with a bigger turning circle.

Ribin58,
I'm cheap, therfore you are correct, I'll put up with the wider turning radius. I was giving some information to possible buyers of these cheaper MII IFS's. Unfortunately the vendors don't divulge issues like this as they want to sell their product. It would be nice if they did because then you would consider them to be honest and possibly pay the little but more and buy their tubular a-arm kit.

Kabwe

If you are concerned with this just completely box your cross member (the tubular a arms will mount on the outside of the cross member) and I also welded a bracket to my frame that will allow me to bolt the a arm to cross member and through the frame for extra safety. You can see my frame in my build thread. I've made some changes to the frame since that pic but that part is the same.

Kabwe,
Thanks for the information on the strut rod eliminators, I'll have to research this for the future.

[Bob@ProAuto]

Originally Posted by Atomsplitter

Robin58

Ribin58,
I'm cheap, therfore you are correct, I'll put up with the wider turning radius. I was giving some information to possible buyers of these cheaper MII IFS's. Unfortunately the vendors don't divulge issues like this as they want to sell their product. It would be nice if they did because then you would consider them to be honest and possibly pay the little but more and buy their tubular a-arm kit.

Kabwe

Kabwe,
Thanks for the information on the strut rod eliminators, I'll have to research this for the future.

Atomsplitter , I can't verify if you have an early Fatman IFS or not. It almost looks like an early (early to mid 80's) Heidt's kit. But I do know a little about the Mustang II based suspensions. The strut rods are definitely an aftermarket set.

On the original Ford Mustang II design, it like hinges on a door. The lower control arm bushing is in the same line and plane as the strut rod bushing. If the hinges on a door aren't in line, it can break, typically at the jamb. You should be able to take a 1/2 piece of all thread and slide in the lower arm bushing and have it intersect the center of the strut rod bushing. From the picture, and it could just be the angle of it, yours looks like it is out of that line.

There was a company years ago that had a problem with the factory strut rod brackets ripping off of the frame, so someone came up with a bushing end replacement strut rod.

As far as strut-less lower arms, there have been a few documented cases on failures. Some companies make arms that are narrower in spread (front to rear) than Ford's from lower control arm bushing to strut rod bushing. Some make then as wide. Material being used varies also. As far as I know, some manufacturer's are making their own arms while others are importing then in. I can state that ours are made about 40 ft. from my office.

But, what I've seen on these could be the builder/installer fault, as well. Did they actually read the instructions and follow the directions? If they had a question, did they call the manufacturer? Some companies have a few pieces that weld to the crossmember that the bolt goes through. Anyone who welds knows that it can be extremely difficult to weld 2 tubes together and get 1 bolt to slide through. Experience with welding is key. Heat makes parts move (warp), pure and simple. Too much heat creates crystallization next to the weld, and the material can fail (break). And the list goes on.....

With that said, everyone needs to do their research and homework. Call the manufacturer's and ask questions. Ask the people that have the parts on their vehicles, what do you like and what don't you like. As we old school punk rockers say "Question Authority".

[jephs422]

Originally Posted by bob@proauto

atomsplitter , i can't verify if you have an early fatman ifs or not. It almost looks like an early (early to mid 80's) heidt's kit. But i do know a little about the mustang ii based suspensions. the strut rods are definitely an aftermarket set.

On the original ford mustang ii design, it like hinges on a door. The lower control arm bushing is in the same line and plane as the strut rod bushing. If the hinges on a door aren't in line, it can break, typically at the jamb. You should be able to take a 1/2 piece of all thread and slide in the lower arm bushing and have it intersect the center of the strut rod bushing. From the picture, and it could just be the angle of it, yours looks like it is out of that line.

There was a company years ago that had a problem with the factory strut rod brackets ripping off of the frame, so someone came up with a bushing end replacement strut rod.

As far as strut-less lower arms, there have been a few documented cases on failures. Some companies make arms that are narrower in spread (front to rear) than ford's from lower control arm bushing to strut rod bushing. Some make then as wide. Material being used varies also. As far as i know, some manufacturer's are making their own arms while others are importing then in. I can state that ours are made about 40 ft. From my office.

But, what i've seen on these could be the builder/installer fault, as well. Did they actually read the instructions and follow the directions? If they had a question, did they call the manufacturer? Some companies have a few pieces that weld to the crossmember that the bolt goes through. Anyone who welds knows that it can be extremely difficult to weld 2 tubes together and get 1 bolt to slide through. Experience with welding is key. Heat makes parts move (warp), pure and simple. Too much heat creates crystallization next to the weld, and the material can fail (break). And the list goes on.....

With that said, everyone needs to do their research and homework. Call the manufacturer's and ask questions. Ask the people that have the parts on their vehicles, what do you like and what don't you like. As we old school punk rockers say "question authority".

+1

[robin58]

atomsplitter, you're right it would be nice if manufacturers divulged all potential issues. And as Kawbe points out there's more than one way to skin a cat. I just didn't want someone who was just reading to get the impression from one of the posts above that you could simply take that strutrod away without obviously putting stress somewhere else. Knowing you're doing so then at least would make a prudent driver routinely inspect the possible problem areas (something that imho could have prevented some of the failures documented for MII's).

[Kabwe]

here are some better pics of what I'm talking about.

[Atomsplitter]

Thanks Kabwe,

Great pictures!

So you cut out the end of the crossmember, drill the holes, installed and welded the tubes, rewelded the crossmember and welded in the support at the frame.

How do you keep this all in alignment with the other side of the IFS? It's not like the top that has all the adjustment to align the front end, these are fixed points?

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by Atomsplitter

Thanks Kabwe,
Great pictures!

So you cut out the end of the crossmember, drill the holes, installed and welded the tubes, rewelded the crossmember and welded in the support at the frame.

How do you keep this all in alignment with the other side of the IFS? It's not like the top that has all the adjustment to align the front end, these are fixed points?

You don't have to cut the crossmember its already opened thats how your current lower a arms a installed. You open that hole that you current a arms are mounted on with a step drill to fit the tube. Don't weld nothing just mock everything with your new a arms and just tack it in place when you are sure everything is correct. Make strong tack welds so that nothing moves and take it apart and weld it all up.

[BIG CHEVY 3600]

I used a Heights MII.
http://www.heidts.com/index.cfm/page...rod/prd125.htm

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by BIG CHEVY 3600

I used a Heights MII.
http://www.heidts.com/index.cfm/page...rod/prd125.htm

He already has a crossmember he is just wanting to get rid of the struts and old a arms. Even with the new crossmember I still do that frame bracket for extra safety. Its just me I don't know if its needed but I feel better with it.lol

[Scottshotrods]

you can go to www.scottshotrods.com
and you can see our ifs systems we offer we have
several members here that
have our ifs systems any
questions please ask
Justin
www.scottshotrods.com

[Atomsplitter]

Thanks again Kabwe,

I think I'll start a separate thread dedicated to the strut rod eliminator question.

Scottshotrods

you can go to www.scottshotrods.com
and you can see our ifs systems we offer we have
several members here that
have our ifs systems any
questions please ask
Justin
www.scottshotrods.com

Does your company sell Strut Rod Eliminators? I had a look at the link you provided and I was wondering if you or your company have an opinion on the use of Strut Rods or was your post just to sell me a complete IFS?

[Scottshotrods]

Originally Posted by Atomsplitter

Thanks again Kabwe,

I think I'll start a separate thread dedicated to the strut rod eliminator question.

Scottshotrods


Does your company sell Strut Rod Eliminators? I had a look at the link you provided and I was wondering if you or your company have an opinion on the use of Strut Rods or was your post just to sell me a complete IFS?

Yes we do have a lower a-arm kit you can purchase for your ifs you have now
that will remove your strut rod and give you the extra room you need.
Call us (805)485-0382
Thankyou,
Justin

[50Bow-tied GMC]

Ok so if I were to use an S-10 frame is the any potential issues that I might encounter? What would be the best model years to use? I'm new to all of this, so I have a lot of questions.

[solidaxel]

Originally Posted by Scottshotrods

Yes we do have a lower a-arm kit you can purchase for your ifs you have now
that will remove your strut rod and give you the extra room you need.
Call us (805)485-0382
Thankyou,
Justin

Justin,
Show us some pics of the before and after of your lower A-arm kits installed.

[jephs422]

Originally Posted by solidaxel

Justin,
Show us some pics of the before and after of your lower A-arm kits installed.

I'll see if I have any installed pictures of the MII lower arm installed.

[Az. Hank]

I,m going to use the Flat Out Engineering set up in my 58.
www.flatout-engineering.com