Newbee Questions...

[Rocfrog]

Ok I really haven't had any time to start working on the '52 but I have started looking into a few things that I know I'm going to have to address when I get into it.

Question #1 Where can I find a a good quality all season cover that fits the truck? The truck is outside and it currently doesn't have any of the glass installed.

Question #2 Is there a company that remakes the metal around the windshield? The part that the rubber gasket goes on, mine is all rusted out and I would like to replace it before I install the glass.

Question #3 What is the difference between 1st series and 2nd series and how do I tell which one I have?

Question #4 Why are S-10's so popular to swap parts off of? I have a '93 blazer 4x4 in the back yard that is going to go to the crusher once my buddy takes the engine. But I think eventually I'm going to want to swap out the front end on the '52 but which is better the Mustang II or the S-10? I'm super froogle so either I keep the Blazer because I have it or I buy the DIY kit that was on the TV show Trucks on Spike Channel ( I forget the name of the company that makes it) but it's only $230 or something like that. But I would like to know the pro's and con's of both systems and what else is salvageable off of the S-10's?

I think that's all for now but I'm sure I'll think of something else!


Nick

[MrTucker]

#1 - not sure
#2 - not that I've seen - look for a donor cab to cut up, or hand fabricate the pieces you need
#3 - '55 was the beginning of the 2nd series, you have a 1st series (also known as AD series). In '55 they made both 1st and 2nd series trucks, so you cant go by date alone. The pic below is a 2nd series, your truck is a 1st series.
#4 - S10's are popular because the wheel base from a long bed reg cab darn near exactly matches the wheel base from an AD short bed truck - doubt your blazer frame will work without serious modifications. Also, since it's a '90's truck with a HUGE aftermarket, parts are readily available and cheap. If you need a suspension part, you can just go to your local parts store. Some find this swap easier than fixing a 60 year old frame - plus it's a stronger frame.

For the MII vs. S10 debate - that's involved. S10 front ends can be made very solid and handle well, but swapping to an S10 frame involves a bit of fabrication and welding to fab cab/bed mounts and radiator support. You can buy kits that make this swap go smoothly, but once you're done the savings over a MII isn't that much. Guys that are good fabricators can do this for almost nothing.

The MII is very popular because it's about as simple as it gets - remove all front suspension/steering components and weld in the the MII. The set up that was on Trucks! this weekend was, in my opinion, a cheap set up that looks like crap, probably handles like crap, and probably wont last you very long. You get what you pay for and with that system you are only saving a few hundred bucks. When you consider how much money you're putting in your resto, skimping on the front suspension/steering doesn't make much sense. Spend the extra $500 and get a solid, bullet proof front end. You'll thank yourself later...

Cheap MII's will run you $1500 or better. S10 swaps will run you the cost of the donor chassis + whatever you need for cab mounts, rad support, bed mounts, etc...

Read through the many S10 swap threads here and you'll soon discover which you'd rather do.

[dwcsr]

Originally Posted by Rocfrog

Question #1 Where can I find a a good quality all season cover that fits the truck? The truck is outside and it currently doesn't have any of the glass installed.

Car covers are very expensive. I would suggest a nice all weather tarp

Question #2 Is there a company that remakes the metal around the windshield? The part that the rubber gasket goes on, mine is all rusted out and I would like to replace it before I install the glass.

You would have to get that part used or fabricate it

Question #3 What is the difference between 1st series and 2nd series and how do I tell which one I have?

52 is an Advance Design truck (1st). 55 can be Advanced Design (1st) or Taskforce (2nd)

Question #4 Why are S-10's so popular to swap parts off of? I have a '93 blazer 4x4 in the back yard that is going to go to the crusher once my buddy takes the engine. But I think eventually I'm going to want to swap out the front end on the '52 but which is better the Mustang II or the S-10? I'm super froogle so either I keep the Blazer because I have it or I buy the DIY kit that was on the TV show Trucks on Spike Channel ( I forget the name of the company that makes it) but it's only $230 or something like that. But I would like to know the pro's and con's of both systems and what else is salvageable off of the S-10's?

I think that's all for now but I'm sure I'll think of something else!

Nick

If you have an S10 use it, its very close to the same dimensions as the 52. Parts are plentiful and its a truck front end. The S10 weighs almost the same as the 52.

When thinking of the MII front end think Pinto. Yeah I know its got those new better outer space metals blessed by God in the spindles and all but its a Pinto front end made for MII cars and PINTO. I owned a pinto and it s&*ked. I know there are probably 10,000 MII Pinto kits on the road but there are millions of S10's on the road.

[Rocfrog]

On the S-10 stuff I wouldn't use the whole frame, my '52 is a Long bed so I don't think S-10's came that big, or at least I only have the Blazer and a standard cab short bed pick up to use ( I love S-10's I currently have 4). I would only use the front clip or just the suspension.

I was a metal fabricator for over two years for a living and have a really nice 240v Esab welder and a Plasma cutter at the house. I can build almost anything. I completely built my Suzuki Samurai from stock to wild with out buying anything, I fabricated all the parts and pieces my self.

Nick

[Kid]

Originally Posted by Rocfrog

On the S-10 stuff I wouldn't use the whole frame, my '52 is a Long bed so I don't think S-10's came that big, or at least I only have the Blazer and a standard cab short bed pick up to use ( I love S-10's I currently have 4). I would only use the front clip or just the suspension.

I was a metal fabricator for over two years for a living and have a really nice 240v Esab welder and a Plasma cutter at the house. I can build almost anything. I completely built my Suzuki Samurai from stock to wild with out buying anything, I fabricated all the parts and pieces my self.

Nick

If you got the skills, I suggest using a "G" body front clip. Much cheaper than a Mustang 11 kit. (my opinion it's stronger, but some debate this). & the track width is correct for our AD trucks. Either way you go, good luck & keep us posted with pictures on your progress.

[Atomsplitter]

There seems to be a huge misconception regarding the MII IFS. If you really think that they're the same as what was built in the Pinto era you need to do some better research. It's only the geometry that is based on the OEM design. The Pintos and Mustang II's had cheap punched out A-Arms and the lowers had to have support rods to help them from folding backwards....I should know I have owned both a Pinto and a Mustang II. The setup I have on my truck is the closest you'll find on the market that resembles the original and they call these a BUDGET IFS. They have the same cheap punched out A-Arms and narrow Lower A-Arms with the supports. Pay a few hundred more and get the full width tubular A-arm IFS if you choose the MII route. I'm not saying they are better than other systems on the market but keep in mind that they HAVE been engineered to be used on a truck and you can customize the spring rates (300 to 500lb springs), get lowering spindles and they can be bagged if you like.

PS= My truck came with this setup and it works for now. When I get some funds I'll get a tubular MII IFS.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by Atomsplitter

There seems to be a huge misconception regarding the MII IFS. If you really think that they're the same as what was built in the Pinto era you need to do some better research. It's only the geometry that is based on the OEM design. The Pintos and Mustang II's had cheap punched out A-Arms and the lowers had to have support rods to help them from folding backwards....I should know I have owned both a Pinto and a Mustang II. The setup I have on my truck is the closest you'll find on the market that resembles the original and they call these a BUDGET IFS. They have the same cheap punched out A-Arms and narrow Lower A-Arms with the supports. Pay a few hundred more and get the full width tubular A-arm IFS if you choose the MII route. I'm not saying they are better than other systems on the market but keep in mind that they HAVE been engineered to be used on a truck and you can customize the spring rates (300 to 500lb springs), get lowering spindles and they can be bagged if you like.

PS= My truck came with this setup and it works for now. When I get some funds I'll get a tubular MII IFS.

Man I left this debate alone a long time ago. I've done GM, Volare, and Mustang II in the past and all are good if done right. Its funny to me that all these Novas, Camaros, and Mustangs with the new suspensions I see at the race tracks are what. After market Mustang II type units.

What does this look like


Rocfrog,
I seen the S10 done as a clip and its can workout really nice. Do what you feel is right for you there is no one way to build a hotrod. Let your skill level or your wallet choose what route you take. Nothing is wrong with any of the clips mentioned if done right. You have many more options to go with like the dodge dakota clip by Industrial Chassis and the Corvette IFS by flatout Engineer and a host of others.

[MrTucker]

sounds like the S10 is right up your alley!

I haven't heard of anyone using an S10 front end only. Guys usually use Camaro, Grand Prix, or whatever

[blackdiesel]

You said your blazer was a 4x4? Are wanting to use it? Or did I miss some thing here?

[Rocfrog]

Originally Posted by blackdiesel

You said your blazer was a 4x4? Are wanting to use it? Or did I miss some thing here?

No I'm not wanting to make the '52 a 4x4 but if I remember correctly all the S-10's suspensions are identical except for the spindle. So I could use the frame parts and then just buy the 2wd arms and spindles.

Originally Posted by 63 & 64 Bowties

Don't let that 4x4 rear get away. IMHO, it's easiest to drop the rear with springs attached. Just pull the 4 shackle bolts and lower in down.

So are you saying that the S-10 4x4 rear end and springs bolt right into the '52?

Nick

[BlueJeep]

Originally Posted by Rocfrog

No I'm not wanting to make the '52 a 4x4 but if I remember correctly all the S-10's suspensions are identical except for the spindle. So I could use the frame parts and then just buy the 2wd arms and spindles.

Nope, actually the frame is completely different from the splice (between front and back) forward. 4wd frame is shaped differently, has wider track width, and all front suspension parts are different. ZR2's are even more different, but I'll leave it at that.

[Kabwe]

Here is a link to different vehicles using s10 clips
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=386545

[nickp51chevy]

Originally Posted by Rocfrog

Question #3 What is the difference between 1st series and 2nd series and how do I tell which one I have?

Question #4 Why are S-10's so popular to swap parts off of? I have a '93 blazer 4x4 in the back yard that is going to go to the crusher once my buddy takes the engine. But I think eventually I'm going to want to swap out the front end on the '52 but which is better the Mustang II or the S-10? I'm super froogle so either I keep the Blazer because I have it or I buy the DIY kit that was on the TV show Trucks on Spike Channel ( I forget the name of the company that makes it) but it's only $230 or something like that. But I would like to know the pro's and con's of both systems and what else is salvageable off of the S-10's?

Just to clarify the series question, the only time 1st or 2nd is used is during a half year production. for example; in '47 they went to the new AD style in the middle of a production year so that made it a second series. in '55 they stoped making AD's in the middle of the production year and started making the TF's. That made the AD's in '55 a first and the TF's in '55 a second. Everything from '48 to '54 is just a plain old AD and '56 to '59 i think is just a plain old TF.

As far as the S10's and MII IFS, I'll give you my .02. The reason the S10's are so popular is that they are usually a cheap alternative to the MII IFS, and in your case the extended cab long bed S10 that's the perfect match as far as wheel base, just make your mounts. From what I know the 4x4 chassis is to wide, but you do want to use the 4x4 rear axle. So keep that. You could, if you want keep the seat, the steering colomb, the pedal ass. and power booster and M/C, some guys are using the power train. It all comes down to what you want to do with your truck.

most important thing to remember when doing this; have fun.

[63 & 64 Bowties]

Originally Posted by nickp51chevy

but you do want to use the 4x4 rear axle. So keep that.

Don't let that 4x4 rear get away. IMHO, it's easiest to drop the rear with springs attached. Just pull the 4 shackle bolts and lower in down.

[Rocfrog]

Originally Posted by nickp51chevy

As far as the S10's and MII IFS, I'll give you my .02. The reason the S10's are so popular is that they are usually a cheap alternative to the MII IFS, and in your case the extended cab long bed S10 that's the perfect match as far as wheel base, just make your mounts. From what I know the 4x4 chassis is to wide, but you do want to use the 4x4 rear axle. So keep that. You could, if you want keep the seat, the steering colomb, the pedal ass. and power booster and M/C, some guys are using the power train. It all comes down to what you want to do with your truck.

most important thing to remember when doing this; have fun.

I think, that only the ZR2 S-10's are wider than any other S-10's ( I would have to check but I think that's right. I have one of these as well). So if I was to cut all the cross members and the mounts for the front suspension off the Blazer and then put them all on the the '52 it should work right? I really want to keep the stock frame on the '52 just want to add to it. I want to keep it as classic looking as possible. The suspension will eventually be air bags but I'm just looking at the right now not down the road. The power train in the Blazer is already spoken for I traded a guy some work/parts for that, he's going to put it in his rock buggy. I was just looking for possibilities before I decided to crush it, because like I said at the beginning I try to be VERY Froogle and do things for as close to FREE as I can, I completely built my Zuk for around $200 and it's sitting on 33's!

Nick

[nickp51chevy]

Originally Posted by Rocfrog

I was to cut all the cross members and the mounts for the front suspension off the Blazer and then put them all on the the '52 it should work right?

Nick

I really don't know the answer to that question. I've never heard of anyone doing that. Mostly people would just use the whole frame. I have heard of people using the clip but it looks like butt because of the different widths from original to s10. You could use an IFS from a 67-72 truck (I think that's the year) those are bolt on, you just need to narrow it.

If you really want to lower it in the long run, your best and cheapest bet is the s10 chassis. There are so many after market lowering parts for those. If you want to keep your '52 a long bed you could try to find a Fleetside Extended Cab Shortbed s10 the wheel base on those are 123" and your '52 should be 125 1/4". You could easily make that work. I got one for my truck and cut it down to 114" and shortened my bed to.

Check out this page:
http://www.mongosgarage.com/

[NONHOG]

On question 1) If you use a tarp toss something under the tarp and the body like some drain line that will allow air to circulate between the tarp and the metal.
Allow air to flow but keep rain out. You probably already know this but am often surprised to see car guys tightly wrapping there outside projects with tarp. Rust gets way worse when the moisture gets locked in by the tarp.

Sorry to get carried away good luck with your project !

[Rocfrog]

Originally Posted by NONHOG

On question 1) If you use a tarp toss something under the tarp and the body like some drain line that will allow air to circulate between the tarp and the metal.
Allow air to flow but keep rain out. You probably already know this but am often surprised to see car guys tightly wrapping there outside projects with tarp. Rust gets way worse when the moisture gets locked in by the tarp.

Sorry to get carried away good luck with your project !

Which is one of the reasons why I was looking for a cover. But I think I'll just go pick up a tarp for now and just put some 2x4's inbetween.


I do want to thank everyone for all the great info! I think once I get to the Blazer I'll tear it down and take a bunch of measurements and go from there.

One of the reasons I wanted to use an S-10 suspension is because there is a company that advertises a full air ride suspension for $1600 (I think). That and S-10's are like Honda Civics in the car world EVERYONE makes parts for them!

Nick