IndyAnne: 88 Chevy K1500

[IndyAnne]

Meet my truck: 1988 Chevy K1500 Silverado 4WD automatic transmission/gas , long bed, 2-door extended cab -- around 162,000 miles as of today, 3/25/10.

It’s an old truck, for sure, but if possible, I would like to drive it for a long time. I need it about six times a year to tow my vintage Airstream on short family trips, and as a second vehicle in the family. Besides, everybody loves you if you have a truck, especially with garden season opening up and mulch-hauling to do.

I am focusing on the interior at the moment. As I go along, I am also finding people who can help me with a few exterior and mechanical safety issues like the lights, brakes, wheels – I think you call it “running gear” -- and some body work. The 4WD works well. The transmission is sounding growly, so who knows how long it will last?

The engine seems to be doing well. I think the engine has been replaced sometime in the past. I’ve been told it’s ok, and is the correct 350, 5.7 L, tfi. I’m starting to understand more about what all of that means. The 4WD worked just great in all of our snowbound days back in January and February, so I’m content in that department for now. I am a little worried about something strange that happens when I put it in 4WD and in reverse, something seizes up and makes a lot of noise. Someone said to check the back brakes. OK – that’s a safety concern, so I’ll be checking that out right away. Meanwhile, out in the driveway …

As for the transmission, aside from its chronic growly sound that moves into the back of my head on the highway, I need to learn more about the gear ratios. I mean, what if I want to tow the Airstream to Michigan for steelhead season? Fly fishing is my other passion, and when the hatches hit, you gotta go, you gotta go. I don’t think I’ll be considering Montana or North Carolina with this truck, maybe later when the job situation improves, and I can find something beefier. At the moment, it seems that I have sufficient torque to get around this mostly flat and only sporadically hilly state and its state parks where we go most often.

I got this truck in the first place because I lost my job, I had to sell my darling best buddy, Big Bertha, 2002 Silverado 6.6L, Duramax Diesel 2500 HD Allison tranny, 4WD with tow package, to get out from under the monthly payments. Did I cry and sulk when those nice people drove away with her from the bank that morning? We tried to be a one-car family for a few months, but seeing the Airstream up on stands, and missing some appointments because of no ride, I was going nuts.

My neighbor has a body shop and somehow traded for this truck with a customer, worked on the body so that she looks really sharp outside. I gave him a bit too much money for her because it turns out Neighbor was less than forthcoming about some issues, and I was a bit too eager and blinded by a shiny red finish. So, here I am, nickel and diming from my odd jobs, taking it easy on repairs, and saving up for the inevitable new tranny.
By the way: why am I posting on this forum? Because, when I am working on a project and use Google to find what I need in instructions or other people’s experiences, more often than any other site, this site pops up with what I am looking for. But, it’s not perfect: I think the site is great for people, mostly guys, who have a lot of experience as mechanics. The little steps needed by a newbie are just not there. Maybe I can chip in with some of these newbie steps for others who are also needing these basics. I am unemployed and I like to write.

Please chip in – corrections, better photos, advice are all welcome. Please be patient with a newbie, and try to explain it like I am a ten-year-old (that’s how old my child is, and that’s how I have to explain stuff.). Thanks!

Next installment: the trip odometer: repair, replace, or go vintage?

[IndyAnne]

Today’s first episode: the trip odometer is worn out and drive gear is cracked.

Thanks to this site …
http://www.dieselgiant.com/repairyourodometer.htm
… for help with the concept of how the odometer works. Best step-by-step with photos I’ve seen yet – before this one ☺

I should have taken step by step photos of getting the instrument cluster out, to help out other newbies like me who have no experience with this and have to scrounge through the web to find bits and pieces of help here and there. I’ll try to at least provide some links to the places I found to get all of this into one place.

Between the Haynes manual and the Chilton manual, I managed to figure out how to get to the cluster. Also the LMC web site … http://www.lmctruck.com/icatalog/cd/full.aspx?page=33
… has an online catalog with exploded views of the dash and just about everything else. I think spatially like this, so these exploded views make perfect sense to me, and I can fiddle my way through a project.

Another wonderful source here in Indy is Truck Parts Plus salvage shop. I’ve been able to find lots of little things there. The people are very helpful. I also found new front seats through LKQ, posted on eBay. They were able to ship using their own drivers on routes between their locations. I got what I needed from a warehouse in Wisconsin for a tiny fraction of what it would have cost to use freight to my house or to a dock for pickup.

Back to the trip odometer: Basically, I just started taking out all the visible screws on the dash, then started gently prying and tugging on pieces that had no visible screws. By and by, without breaking a single thing, I had the cluster upside down on a towel on my kitchen counter.

Everything in this dash is over 20 years old. Everything is basically plastic, and is dry and brittle, and very nasty with dust and oily stuff. Easily distracted by such matters, I started taking notes on things I would like to do but might not get done for lack of time:
-the air ducts: I would like to take those out and clean them thoroughly. They are very very yukky.
-ABS plastic: I would like to heat-weld all of the little cracks and broken pieces I’ve run across or caused by my own plundering around.
-dash covers: the foam on the dash is turning into powder; live with it, or try to replace it?

OK – I promise, back to the trip odometer, with instructions as if talking to you, and your truck is like mine:
1. Remove the bezel surrounding the dash, and remove everything that comes between you and the instrument cluster. My instrument cluster is housed in an aqua blue/greenish frame, with a metal enclosure on the back. The instrument dials are exposed somewhat, but not to the extent of the older models with the needle indicators. In my truck, the gauges are mostly circular and revolve on a spindle, driven by little solenoids that get their info from microchips. Still, always be aware that the moving parts of the gauges are fragile.
2. The cluster is held in place by a cable end with a whole lot of pins, quite like a 1990s computer’s printer or monitor connection. That’s because the cluster is electronic, and works through a circuit board. The gauges are analog and mechanical, but they get their info electronically through microchips. Cool (But, someday, I want a truck that is totally mechanical, a 1968 C 10 or 20, to match my Airstream).
3. Grasp the left and right edges of the cluster’s frame and pull out toward you, easy, easy; try not to rock it back and forth, but if you have to, because it has never been taken out before, just barely wiggle it.
4. When you have the cluster separated from the connector, the next step is to get the cluster out of the truck and into the kitchen. Watching out for the trip odometer reset stem on the cluster, turn the ignition to the accessory setting to disengage the shifter, put your foot on the brake, and shift the gear shift arm down. Press and hold inward the reset stem of the cluster, and gently lift and slightly twist and turn the cluster out of its nesting place in the dash.
5. Shift the truck back into Park, and with the cluster in hand, head to the kitchen counter, or wherever you can work with a lot of light and a soft towel for the faces of the gauges.

Continued ...

[IndyAnne]

6. With the cluster on a towel on its back on the counter, remove all of the hexagonal screws holding the gauges in place. Gently remove the gauges from the frame. After removing the screws, removing the gauges is a matter of tugging gently on the plastic frames in places that have the thickest plastic. The gauges fit with threaded posts into grommets, not that they require a screwdriver, just pulling out with gentle persuasion, and re-placing with equal care. Notice all the lights behind the gauges. Someone suggested now would be a good time to replace all of those little bulbs because who knows when you will be going back in there again, and you don’t want the reason to be just to replace one burned out bulb, say, for the oil gauge.
7. Turn the frame over and remove the metal cover on the back. Gently remove all of the hexagonal screws holding the cover on. Now would be a good time to examine the soldering on the circuit board, check for any corrosion, and gently clean out all of the dust and bugs.
8. Realize now that not all of this is germane to fixing the trip odometer. But, if you want to raise the level of cleanliness, and therefore, godliness of your truck, this can help.
9. You can put the cover back over the backside. With the gauges set aside for safekeeping, turn the frame back over to the front side, and see the odometer cluster side-by-side. A small hexagonal screw holds a metal cover over the center, where the spindles of both odometers meet. A tiny piece of bent stainless steel holds the two spindles in place, so that they turn simultaneously from the work of the mileage odometer, what I will call the master odometer.
10. The master odometer has a kind of plastic sheet on its non-visible backside, held in place with some pins. This holds the gears in their proper accurate location, keeping everything legal. Just in case, it would not hurt to place a strip of transparent tape across the master odometer to hold the little numbers exactly where they were when you opened everything up. In fact, you could move this step back to step 1, but it’s ok, nothing has moved yet. You will not need to remove the master odometer, but if you are new at this and are afraid of screwing something up, this gives peace of mind.
11. With the metal cover off the middle where the two spindles meet, take a pencil or a chopstick or the end of your finger and lightly touch the tiny stainless connector holding the spindles in sync. This is to desensitize you to the concept of dealing with this area of the truck that you realize has fines and jail time associated with it. Get over it. You’re not going to mess with the master odometer at all; you’re just going to take out that trip odometer because it’s broken.
12. The right end of the trip odometer spindle is held in place in a plastic bracket that is part of the frame. Very gingerly take a small screwdriver or a manicure orange stick (whatever it takes) and pry the spindle up from the bracket. Ignore the nervous feeling in your stomach and keep your hands from shaking. It’s not that big of a deal, unless you break the bracket, then you are screwed. (but not really because you can call Truck Parts Plus and ask if they have any instrument clusters, or check on ebay, where I am currently bidding on one because the lexan cover is broken.) These parts are plastic – good reason to handle them with kid gloves.
13. With the right end of the trip odometer spindle free, lift the spindle out of the frame. The tiny stainless piece will probably fall down into the frame, but that’s ok. Shake it out and stick it aside on a piece of tape. You don’t want to have to make or find another one of those, if your instrument cluster is in great shape and does not need to be totally replaced.

Continued ...

[IndyAnne]

14. Examine closely the gear on the tenths of a mile end of the trip odometer spindle. In my case, this gear is brown, and plastic, and travels in tandem with the while “tenths” number dial. This is the problem. It took 14 steps to get here, so far, but now you know what’s wrong. That broken brown plastic gear is the reason for the slippage of the trip odometer, and is why when you got the truck you realized that no matter how many times you reset the trip odometer, it would go about a mile and then everything would go wild. All of the numbers would spin on their own with no logical connection. Yes, they were free-wheeling.
15. Notice all of the numbered wheels. The only one that is actually a typical-looking gear is the first one, the tenths. The rest depend upon a timing device molded into their construction. That is because behind the trip odometer is another spindle with one white gear and three little green gears with green square spacers between the gears, and they are all plastic, and they are all quite worn, one more than the others, which is odd, because that one that is most worn operates the “thousands” space on the meter. Anyway, this design is part of the timing and tracking of the trip odometer. The little square spacers work with the reset mechanism. The numbered wheels each have a space near the number 4, where the numbered wheels get their push to change either from the back gear spindle or from the reset mechanism. All of this is complicated, and not being an engineer and never having studied physics in a formal way, that’s all I have to say about that. Except this: because those little gears on the back spindle are so badly worn, I’m not sure my repair is going to work, but I am going to give it my best try. If it does not work, I think I’ll just take a piece of tape, set the trip odometer numbers all to 0s, disconnect the spindle from the master odometer, and use my vintage trip odometer: paper and pencil.

Now that I have been through all of that discovering of where everything goes, I found that it is only necessary to get the speedometer and the battery meter out. To get the battery meter out, you have to first take out the gas gauge. So, if you don’t want to replace all of the little bulbs, you can get the trip odometer out by following steps 11-15. ☺

If I can figure out how to get the photos lined up with the text, I’ll post the photos with the text. If I can’t figure it out, I’ll post the photos on my web site where I can do everything more easily.

That will end this part of the Trip Odometer story until I find some Loctite and give it all a try on the open road.

More soon …

[IndyAnne]

Today, I tried some suggestions I found on the internet.

First, I tried to "weld" the broken gear with Ambroid brand ProWeld. That did not work.

Second, I am trying Permatex brand Threadlocker, green. This was suggested for a pot metal gear to stainless spindle on another web site. The Threadlocker package clearly says "It is not recommended for plastics."

Using the Threadlocker anyway, I observed that the spindle has a groove in the area that would be covered by the brown plastic gear that is broken. Instructions say that the Threadlocker takes 24 hours to cure.

I dropped a little Threadlocker in the groove and reassembled the trip odometer. Then, I set all the numbers the same. I figure if this doesn't work, or if the penetrating green version of threadlocker works really well and binds all the gears together, no big deal.

Later on in the weekend ...

[BIGphillip79]

this all looks pretty good. I think mine probably has the same problem. I'm thinking though getting a junk yard part might be cheaper than the adhesives. I know junk yards around here have a ton of those old clusters.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by IndyAnne

It’s an old truck, for sure, but if possible, I would like to drive it for a long time. I need it about six times a year to tow my vintage Airstream on short family trips,

"Vintage Airstream" - that's cool

I suggested to my wife that we could get an old trailer, and pull it with one of my classic cars.

Her reply: "...what could possibly go wrong?"

[IndyAnne]

Hey, Keith,

Yes, your wife's response works for both -- the trailer and the tow vehicle -- "don't ask". I have already decided to stay close to home as long as we have this combination. I did have a little spark in my eye when I spotted a 1969 C10 in a car lot by my neighborhood. 1968 Airstream + 1969 C10 = what some might call an adventure :-) Not a good idea -- until I learn a whole lot more about frames and suspensions and old transmissions. Better update that RV club membership for the towing benefit.

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

"Vintage Airstream" - that's cool

I suggested to my wife that we could get an old trailer, and pull it with one of my classic cars.

Her reply: "...what could possibly go wrong?"

[90.GMC.ST]

Wow, I WISH I had the patience you have to write all that up about what should in theory be much more simpler. I enjoy the time you take for each peice, very well done. I'll definately be subscribing to this build! Now hopefully you do some of the stuff I need done on the interior which would make things much each easier for myself! Ever consider smoothing and painting the dash?

Take care and good luck with the build!
-Jordan

[IndyAnne]

Hi, Jordan,

I'm back into the interior now after getting the gates built and hauling compost for neighbors, and this little bit of drama over the ignition/computer/key cylinder mishap described here:
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...68&postcount=1

So, about the dash -- smoothing it and painting it -- do you have any photos or links about how that is done? Sounds good to me! Why not?

Thanks for checking in.

Originally Posted by 90.GMC.ST

Wow, I WISH I had the patience you have to write all that up about what should in theory be much more simpler. I enjoy the time you take for each peice, very well done. I'll definately be subscribing to this build! Now hopefully you do some of the stuff I need done on the interior which would make things much each easier for myself! Ever consider smoothing and painting the dash?

Take care and good luck with the build!
-Jordan

[90.GMC.ST]

As far as instructions on how to smooth and paint the dash, I'm fairly certain that there is a thread on it at fullsizechevy.com although I can't locate it at the moment, so take a peek on overthere if you aren't to busy. I hope to begin the long process once school is out and I am able to focus 90% of my attention to it. From what I've read, you need to completely remove the dash, then do a quick sand with 80 grit, then 120 grit, then 400 grit followed by paint and several layers of clear coat, but don't take my word for it. It's been a while since I looked much into due to a busy schedule (if I'm not at school I'm at work trying to get money together for wheels) so your best bet is just to do a search at fullsizechevy. Sorry I can't be of much help! All I recall is that it is quite the task to complete that requires a lot of patience

take care,
Jordan

[IndyAnne]

Jordan,
I found this thread on FSC as you suggested:
http://www.fullsizechevy.com/showthr...ide-(hopefully)
Looks interesting -- I almost have the dash out, I'm down to the two rivets behind the instrument cluster. Might as well take it on out and see how clean I can get it.

Originally Posted by 90.GMC.ST

As far as instructions on how to smooth and paint the dash, I'm fairly certain that there is a thread on it at fullsizechevy.com although I can't locate it at the moment, so take a peek on overthere if you aren't to busy. I hope to begin the long process once school is out and I am able to focus 90% of my attention to it. From what I've read, you need to completely remove the dash, then do a quick sand with 80 grit, then 120 grit, then 400 grit followed by paint and several layers of clear coat, but don't take my word for it. It's been a while since I looked much into due to a busy schedule (if I'm not at school I'm at work trying to get money together for wheels) so your best bet is just to do a search at fullsizechevy. Sorry I can't be of much help! All I recall is that it is quite the task to complete that requires a lot of patience

take care,
Jordan

[IndyAnne]

I am working my way down the list of troubleshooting. I finally have all the interior electricals tracked down and working, replaced bulbs, connected broken connections, etc. Tomorrow, I install the stereo I got for Christmas, finally.

I'm going to get the AC charged tomorrow morning, next item on the list.

On another forum, Fullsizechevy.com, I ran across an interesting thread on cleaning out the core in the cab section, inside the box near the fan motor, underneath the ECM. I'm going to check it out because I have the dashboard dismantled down to the two rivets behind the instrument cluster. I'm used to drilling those out like in my vintage Airstream interior skins, also troubleshooting electrical issues. Fun with rivets, another chapter in my book of projects.

Here's the link to the AC core idea. Those guys said it makes a big difference if your AC isn't cooling like it should, or the velocity of the fan seems lower than it should be.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/showthr...ght=dash+paint

But the point I started out with is this: When I turn on the AC control, a sound begins, like the sound of an oil can popping, on and off, with corresponding "revving" of the engine, up and down as the metallic popping sound goes on and off. Yet, I feel no cold air coming through the vents. That's why I'm going to get the AC charged up (it will be free, so worth a try). Then, I'll try the cleanup of the core.

BUT -- maybe there is something else going on?

[IndyAnne]

I'm working on getting the dash out. It's really hard to do. I've posted photos on Flickr here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/indyanne1/

Lots of hidden screws, some very hard to reach from behind the dash panel.

[90.GMC.ST]

Originally Posted by IndyAnne

I'm working on getting the dash out. It's really hard to do. I've posted photos on Flickr here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/indyanne1/

Lots of hidden screws, some very hard to reach from behind the dash panel.

Wow, did not expect that many screws. Looks like it took a long while to get all of those out. In the end it should be worth it though. One thing I noticed within the photos is the fact that you through flickr have been able to create a way for you to remember which peice is which. I also like your idea of labelling most wires, which will help a lot during install. Have you managed to get the two final rivets out yet?

-Jordan

[jb1016]

Originally Posted by IndyAnne

Here's the link to the AC core idea. Those guys said it makes a big difference if your AC isn't cooling like it should, or the velocity of the fan seems lower than it should be.

http://www.fullsizechevy.com/showthr...ght=dash+paint

Man, this is good stuff. Thanks for linking to that; I'm gonna try it when I get some free time (if that ever happens)

As for the AC noise, I think what you're describing is the sound of the compressor cycling on/off?? At idle, with the AC on, mine clicks on and off every few seconds, and the idle speed of the engine is slightly affected every time. I was told this was totally normal for these trucks.

[IndyAnne]

JB, that is good to know -- normal sound.

How are things in Nashville? My brother is there, has some intense stories of the flooding. Take care...

I'm working my way into removing the dash today.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/indyann...7623966850703/

More photos on Flickr later this evening, I hope, including the dash out in one piece

Originally Posted by jb1016

Man, this is good stuff. Thanks for linking to that; I'm gonna try it when I get some free time (if that ever happens)

As for the AC noise, I think what you're describing is the sound of the compressor cycling on/off?? At idle, with the AC on, mine clicks on and off every few seconds, and the idle speed of the engine is slightly affected every time. I was told this was totally normal for these trucks.

[IndyAnne]

Time out for a new Indy experience -- Bump Day at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, last opportunity for qualifying. Here's an article about it:

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-136466.html

and about the schedule for the week -- I might go out to Carb Day on Friday:

http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway...5391-Schedule/

I got some neat photos and video on Bump Day from the garages and the pit on Flickr:

Bump Day Indy 500
Refresh SlideShow

Other than a trip to the Speedway for the official tour, it was my first race event at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. I don't know what I was expecting, but it was great fun. I went because my friend's little boy's school had a benefit, at a Tower Suite donated by a generous suite owner.

Worthmore Academy: another treasure in Indianapolis:

Originally Posted by IndyAnne

Meet my truck: 1988 Chevy K1500 Silverado 4WD automatic transmission/gas , long bed, 2-door extended cab -- around 162,000 miles as of today, 3/25/10. ...

[IndyAnne]

I think I have four issues going on: (photos are in my Gallery, in the album, Air Conditioning.)

1. The air conditioning has not worked in my truck since I got it (Dec. 2009). The previous owner said all it needed was to be charged, so I took it to a shop and had that done. The air blew cool on AC and the system would clear the condensation from the windshields on the defrost setting when we had wet weather.

2. The refrigerant must have been on a slow leak for a very few days, because the cooling quit within a week.

3. To make matters worse, especially in hot weather, the vents constantly blow hot air.

4. Similarly, but I'm not sure if it is related, the floor of the cab is very hot. For a while, when I was working on wiring issues, I had the carpet out and ran with the floors bare. The heat was intense. I installed a dense foam (waterproof) carpet pad and re-installed the carpet. I thought this would help the floor heat situation, and it did help. At least now, people can put their feet on the floor without burning their feet, and the dog can take a nap in a doggie bed on the front floor without becoming dehydrated when we take a camping trip.

I had a shop install a muffler and exhaust pipe, beginning where the catalytic converter ought to be. Now, I think hot air also blows up through the floor shifter for the 4 wheel drive.

I can't really tell which is which, or if it's both -- hot air from the vents, including the floor vent, and hot air from the hole in the floor at the 4 wheel drive shifter opening.

5. I'm trying to work this out with not much of a budget. I know that diagnosing an air conditioner can take a lot of hours in labor, and then a lot of money in parts.

People lived without AC for decades. But, it gets miserably hot here in summer. I'd like to have it if possible and not a fortune to fix.

It would be easier to take life without AC if I could stop this unwanted hot air from blowing through the vents and whatever heat is coming up through the floor.

I'm ready to sell this old girl -- the truck -- but I'll have trouble getting anything for her if I can't get the basic comforts going. The sound system is good; seating is good; engine is fine; 4 WD is great. Temperature is a problem. One guy, a concrete contractor, seems interested, but not if the AC isn't working.

Any ideas/suggestions?

[IndyAnne]

I forgot to say: the clutch is working; the fan is working; the air has cooled before when charged.

What do I need to rule out first before moving on, any money-saving steps that I could take before taking it in to a pro?

[IndyAnne]

And, I forgot to say, what can I do to address the blowing hot air (even when NOT running the fan), and, what do you suspect is going on with the hot floor of the front passenger side of the cab? (should there be some kind of baffle or heat shield between the exhaust system and the floor of the cab?)