Welded rear end?

[71GMCer]

Hey all,

I keep hearing the term "Welded front and rear end" or such.

What does this mean?

Matt

[Jason M]

Originally Posted by 71GMCer

Hey all,

I keep hearing the term "Welded front and rear end" or such.

What does this mean?

Matt

Its when you weld your spiders gears to the side gears. The will give you 100% traction to each shaft. Its the same as a spool, I run a welded rear and wheel with a few with welded front and rear.

Its cheap traction but steering raduis is reduced. But for somthing like I have thats trail only it worth it.

Jason.

[powerdriver 1958]

Welding the rear of a truck that that is off road only is ok in my book,My mudder is welded up.

But Not for an on road truck and never for a daily driver.Just too much stress on parts.Turning radius becomes REAL bad.

My front is welded also but its in the mud and turning is lousy,I generally leave one front hub (drivers side) unlocked until I get close to the pit.

If Its off road only,yeah you can get by.But if it sees any pavement at all, Nope

[LONGHAIR]

Don't do it. IMHO it is never done "properly".....even if I thought there was a proper way. Most of the time this is done with the differential in the housing, which IMHO is totally wrong to start with....The metals involved are not really compatable for welding together, things are never cleaned well enough, etc...and many time the stock axles are used. None of this is safe. If you have any power at all, you will break something...and if you don't why bother?

Spools are cheap....if you even really need a fully locked axle anyway, but aftermarket axles are a must with them too. Completely locked rear axles are rather rough to drive, it wants to push you in a straight line, no matter how you turn the wheels. Fronts are even worse...mud bogging and truck pulling are really the only applications for that and like powerdriver58 said, those guys un-lock most of the time too.

I have seen welded diffs fail in sand racing...and the results are ugly. I saw a jeep drive completely over the christmas tree (and nearly a few people) because of a weld failure......I am totally against them in all applications.

[milled]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

Don't do it. IMHO it is never done "properly".....even if I thought there was a proper way. Most of the time this is done with the differential in the housing, which IMHO is totally wrong to start with....The metals involved are not really compatable for welding together, things are never cleaned well enough, etc...and many time the stock axles are used. None of this is safe. If you have any power at all, you will break something...and if you don't why bother?

Spools are cheap....if you even really need a fully locked axle anyway, but aftermarket axles are a must with them too. Completely locked rear axles are rather rough to drive, it wants to push you in a straight line, no matter how you turn the wheels. Fronts are even worse...mud bogging and truck pulling are really the only applications for that and like powerdriver58 said, those guys un-lock most of the time too.

I have seen welded diffs fail in sand racing...and the results are ugly. I saw a jeep drive completely over the christmas tree (and nearly a few people) because of a weld failure......I am totally against them in all applications.

100% correct sir

[MrBeast]

a "Lincoln Locker" or welded diff is as mentioned previously when you weld the spider gears. Its a poor man's posi, and in my opinion it is a bad idea. Trucks have differentials for a reason. Locking up your axles will give you traction, but it will also be really hard on your axle shafts and tires it will tear up your equipment way faster because it is always going to be under a lot of stress.

If your rig is a trail only rig, you can get away with it, you really would be best off spending the few bucks and getting a locker.

[84 400]

I know a bunch of guys running welded 14 bolts with no issue other then accelerated tire wear and hazerdous driving on heavy rain and ice!. Locked or weleded axles make a huge difference on the trail. They are not the same tho. I run a front locker (lockright). On the trail you can not even feel it but man does it make a difference. Unlike a welded diff it can rachet when not on the gas which helps keep a tight turning radius. On the street I Don't use the front axle so no problems. As stated weld is perment all the time traction with no differential action. I would only weld the rear on a road diven truck and put a lockright or aussie in the font if it needed to be done on the cheap. If it is trail only then weld weld would be OK.

[propanemudtruck]

As most have mentioned, this does cause much more stress on the driveline. I have to agree, but I have done this on a play toy before and loved it. For a budget build I would reccomend this for trail rigs. But before you go and bust out the welder do some reading on what many people have done, like welding the gears to the differential housing instead of to each other, it yields more welding area.

Also, try searching FOZZY LOCKER. It's a form of VERY LIMITED slip welded spiders that seems to be getting more and more attention.

Good luck!

[Tex_50613]

I run a welded rear in my 85 3/4 ton with 44's on it when done properly (remove the diff from the housing, weld the gears together, heat the main carrer to the proper temp and weld the spiders to the carrier, replace the beearings apon re-assembly exc......) they are no weeker than a spool and there is nothing wrong with them for offroad use, I drive my truck year round (on and off road) and only get into issues when it is Icy or large amounts of snow, tire wear is excellerated on the rear tires due to the diff not allowing the outer tire to spin faster than the inner when cornering,
2 big no-no's when welding a diff is DO NOT over heat the gears or housing while welding, this causes the metals to become brittle and fail,also DO NOT ground to the axel tube or axel shaft, you can end up grounding through the bearings which will ruin them and cause falure,

[LONGHAIR]

I have never seen it actually done that way. Every one I have had to deal with was done by some backyard "weldor" who "might have" splashed a little solvent around to get rid of "most" of the gear lube before going at it.
I have seen them done with not much more than some bubble-gum looking blobs that were really just blocking the roation of the spider gears....and yes, I have seen failures, imagine that.

On a full floating axle, used off road, and properly welded....but after all of that work, why not just use a spool and be done with it?
After pulling the bearings, ring gear, cleaning the parts, pre-heating, etc. and are you really sure that you didn't distort the carrier with the heat? For about $200, you could have had the spool and skipped all of that.

[Jason M]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

I have never seen it actually done that way. Every one I have had to deal with was done by some backyard "weldor" who "might have" splashed a little solvent around to get rid of "most" of the gear lube before going at it.
I have seen them done with not much more than some bubble-gum looking blobs that were really just blocking the roation of the spider gears....and yes, I have seen failures, imagine that.

On a full floating axle, used off road, and properly welded....but after all of that work, why not just use a spool and be done with it?
After pulling the bearings, ring gear, cleaning the parts, pre-heating, etc. and are you really sure that you didn't distort the carrier with the heat? For about $200, you could have had the spool and skipped all of that.

I will say when I do them I dont pull every thing ( bearings, and ring gear ) off when its for a 60 front. I heat it up a little make a pass then let it cool, then repeat that till its welded shut.
Ive even welded some 1/4" flat stock in there to make a bridge from side gear to side gear and then welded that to the spiders.

For a rear 14 bolt ( or HO axle ) its even easyer. I just remove the carrier, spit it apart and weld the spiders and side gears into a ball, then drop it back into the carrier set the carrier back in the axle and adjust the ring.

Its cheap traction, and with full hydro or even hydro assest turning is easy. If you phase the front U-joint in the axle it even makes turning easyer, its like building a drive shaft you would not build it out of phase.

Yes spools are cheaper and lockers are better but this is free and with a little time and effort a welded diff is just as good.

Jason.

[LONGHAIR]

Originally Posted by Jason M

I will say when I do them I dont pull every thing ( bearings, and ring gear ) off when its for a 60 front. I heat it up a little make a pass then let it cool, then repeat that till its welded shut.
Ive even welded some 1/4" flat stock in there to make a bridge from side gear to side gear and then welded that to the spiders.

For a rear 14 bolt ( or HO axle ) its even easyer. I just remove the carrier, spit it apart and weld the spiders and side gears into a ball, then drop it back into the carrier set the carrier back in the axle and adjust the ring.

Its cheap traction, and with full hydro or even hydro assest turning is easy. If you phase the front U-joint in the axle it even makes turning easyer, its like building a drive shaft you would not build it out of phase.

Yes spools are cheaper and lockers are better but this is free and with a little time and effort a welded diff is just as good.

Jason.

This is the dangerous line of thinking that I am completely against.
It is half-a**ed at best...and potentially deadly at worst.
You really need to remove the bearings and ring gear to be able to preheat the carrier enough to do this. If you left them in place they would be damged by the heat....and if they weren't, it wasn't hot enough.

I am still not in favor of the "right way", feeling that it is more work than necessary, when a proper spool is better anyway....but the shakey mess version, No way



BTW, the point of "hard to steer" is not about turning the steering wheel. It is about making the truck actually turn. A spool has a tendancy to "push" the vehicle in a straight line. Spools or even lockers in the front can be a real hand-full...litterally.

[Jason M]

Originally Posted by LONGHAIR

This is the dangerous line of thinking that I am completely against.
It is half-a**ed at best...and potentially deadly at worst.
You really need to remove the bearings and ring gear to be able to preheat the carrier enough to do this. If you left them in place they would be damged by the heat....and if they weren't, it wasn't hot enough.

I am still not in favor of the "right way", feeling that it is more work than necessary, when a proper spool is better anyway....but the shakey mess version, No way



BTW, the point of "hard to steer" is not about turning the steering wheel. It is about making the truck actually turn. A spool has a tendancy to "push" the vehicle in a straight line. Spools or even lockers in the front can be a real hand-full...litterally.

Thats what make open forums great, everbodys opinion.

I dont see how a Buggy or jeep moving at 3 MPH tops will see a "deadly" situation from a bearing failure and thats never happend to my Jeep in 5 hard years from a welded diff?????

Just because it doe's not work for you, it works for plenty of off road only truck, Jeeps and buggys
And I agree a spool/weld or even a locker in the front doe's plow steer, but with tire pressure around 2-3psi and Hydro steering I manage.

Jason.

[onlyifihadachevy]

Longhair, what happened to the jeep to cause it to almost run someone over? That one seems to be the drivers error, I can't see it possible for a failed weld to cause that.
And I am not try to start argument about if it is safe or not. Just that case seems weird. And I think the OP just wanted to know what people meant by welded front or rear. And it is half-a**ed in high performance or racing apps. But, understandable in a trail only vehicle.

[LONGHAIR]

Originally Posted by onlyifihadachevy

Longhair, what happened to the jeep to cause it to almost run someone over? That one seems to be the drivers error, I can't see it possible for a failed weld to cause that.

When it broke all of the power went to only one rear wheel, causing it to dart immediately to the left. Fortunately in this case he was in the right hand lane, which was away from the crowd. A couple of track workers jumped out of the way and there was time to get it stopped because of the other lane, but who knows what would have happened if it had started in that lane...


I was not "just a spectator" at this particular event, but a crew member of a competitor, so I actually saw the broken parts. After that incident, this guy and several others switched to spools.