HELP!!! Coolant in Oil Pan

[toddtheodd]

350 bored .030 over...
I had a leaking head gasket (oil), and so pulled the heads and replaced the head gaskets with copper head gaskets. (The ones that don't need to be o-ringed, and that have the sealant already on them.)
Anyway, after I get the motor all together, I start topping off the fluids, and my coolant is coming out of my oil pan.
The rad never got over half full, so it must be going up through the bottom rad hose into the water pump, but I can't understand where it would be going from there. And by never got over half full... I mean it was going into the oil pan that fast...
This motor was running fine when I tore it apart, and only had the oil leak at the back of the driver's side head gasket.

What could be wrong here?
Does the copper head gasket need to be run without coolant to get it to seat up or something?

HELP!!!

[toddtheodd]

Oh... and I haven't fired the motor up yet... so this leak is pre-running of install.

Any ideas?

Intake manifold gasket?
Head gasket?

[Tom Vogel]

Did you blow out the head bolt holes and use non-hardening Permatex on the threads?

[toddtheodd]

Originally Posted by Tom Vogel

Did you blow out the head bolt holes and use non-hardening Permatex on the threads?

Yes on blowing out, no on the permatex.
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[llowlife]

I was thinking intake. I have never used copper Head gaskets so I have no experience with them. Realistically anything other than that may not be happy good news.....Why don't yo add a little air pressure to the radiator and hear whatcha hear

[dmwphoto]

to run in that fast (since I assume it was fine before except for the oil leak) it has to be an intake issue. Lowlife is spot on you can pressurize with air and listen.

[toddtheodd]

How do I add air pressure to the radiator? Could I jam the air hose into the Rad overflow hose?
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[toddtheodd]

Could the coolant make it all the way to the intake with the Rad only 1/4 to 1/2 full?
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[71 super]

What type of copper head gaskets? I have used "Copperhead" brand gaskets in the past and loved them. They served the intended purpose of avoiding "o" rings and killed off a little compression so the motor could be streeted. Best part throw them in the oven at 400* or so for a few and you can reuse them. Are you using head studs? If so are the they torqued using oil or ARP lube? Not pulling threads out of the block are you, that is if you are using regular head bolts? Had that problem once and the studs cured that. I agree that you need the seal threads, but think it is a problem lower than the intake.

[toddtheodd]

Originally Posted by 71 super

What type of copper head gaskets? I have used "Copperhead" brand gaskets in the past and loved them. They served the intended purpose of avoiding "o" rings and killed off a little compression so the motor could be streeted. Best part throw them in the oven at 400* or so for a few and you can reuse them. Are you using head studs? If so are the they torqued using oil or ARP lube? Not pulling threads out of the block are you, that is if you are using regular head bolts? Had that problem once and the studs cured that. I agree that you need the seal threads, but think it is a problem lower than the intake.

SCE Titan ICS copper head gaskets.
ARP bolts... oil.
I don't think I'm pulling threads out of the block. Doesn't feel like it at least.

What could be below the intake causing this?
I'm going to try the air test tomorrow.
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[71 super]

Head gasket not sealing is about all. Pull the water neck and add some more water to see if by chance it is getting to the intake. If it is not, the the heads will have to come off again. Heat the gaskets to reset them per manufacturer's instructions and go at it again. If still on the stand this will suck but not too bad. Good luck.

[Jacfourteen]

Could be cracked or warped heads. Did it ever run hot? Did you have the heads checked out? Whatever it is it sounds like it will be coming back apart, sorry about your luck.

[toddtheodd]

Originally Posted by Jacfourteen

Could be cracked or warped heads. Did it ever run hot? Did you have the heads checked out? Whatever it is it sounds like it will be coming back apart, sorry about your luck.

If that was the case, wouldn't I have been having this problem before I pulled the heads?
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[toddtheodd]

Ok... so this is what I am going to try when I get home after work today.
First, pull the water neck and add fluid. If water comes out of oil pan first, then...
Second, pull off the intake manifold and add water. If same results...
Third, pull off heads and add water. If water is still coming out of the pan before coming out of the top of the block, I'm going to pull the motor back out of the truck.

Here's to hoping I get this puppy fixed before getting to third.
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[dmwphoto]

I'll bet you a beer it is a bad seal on the intake

[toddtheodd]

And the winner is...
.
.
.
71Super
It is the head gasket.
when the water level gets high enough, it leaks in all 4 corners from under the heads into the lifter valley.
All I can say to that is WTF!!!
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[dmwphoto]

owe u a beer...

[toddtheodd]

So... what should I use on the heads to seal them?
They say "integral seals" but I obviously can't trust that. I'm going to seal the bejesus out of these things.
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[71 super]

Check back with the manufacturer of the head gaskets, they should be reuseable. Find out the exact process and clean the wee-wee out of the block surface and the gasket before installing. Besure to use the Arp bolt lube as the oil etc will give screwwy torque readings. Check your heads again with flat straight machinist edge to be sure and check ARP to see what they recommend for threads into water jacket. This is aggrevating but should be an easy fix realatively speaking. If the copper cant be reused get the upper end felpro one shot gaskets and you should be good to go. Take your time and it will all be good.

[Jacfourteen]

Originally Posted by 71 super

check your heads again with flat straight machinist edge to be sure

x2

[toddtheodd]

What kind of sealant?
Coppercoat?
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[GR8-68]

you should have the heads surfaced before installing pretty cheap insurance, I dont think it is a flaw from headgasket, it does not take much of a warp to not get a good seal and it may be so minute you wont see it

[toddtheodd]

Originally Posted by GR8-68

you should have the heads surfaced before installing pretty cheap insurance, I dont think it is a flaw from headgasket, it does not take much of a warp to not get a good seal and it may be so minute you wont see it

A) Unless they bacanr warped from this, then they aren't warped. They were just checked by a shop and were A-OK.
and
2) One head being warped and leaking in a corner.... warped. BOTH heads leaking in BOTH corners... I'm looking at the head gasket. It's the only new variable.
and
Fourth) Soooo... coppercoat or what else? Can I use Ultra Black gasket pooky stuff on head gaskets?
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[71 super]

NO do not use the rtv or other sealer on gaskets. Contact manufacturer to see what could be the issue. The gaskets should be dead soft and will definitely need to be "reset" by way of heat and cleaned before use. If they can be you need to check on this as they are different from the ones I have used. I realize they are expensive but you motor is more expensive. Call and speak with them for the proper technique follow their instructions and go at it again.

[dmwphoto]

Originally Posted by 71 super

NO do not use the rtv or other sealer on gaskets. Contact manufacturer to see what could be the issue. The gaskets should be dead soft and will definitely need to be "reset" by way of heat and cleaned before use. If they can be you need to check on this as they are different from the ones I have used. I realize they are expensive but you motor is more expensive. Call and speak with them for the proper technique follow their instructions and go at it again.

solid advice there. I would take it one step further and NEVER reuse a head gasket. Cheaper to get new ones.