Western 2.5" or Bell Tech 3.0" Drop Spindles????

[mcbassin]

I ordered some Western 2.5" drop spindles last week on Epay and they just informed me they are on back order...till Jan. 15 or later after shipping.....Arrrg. They said they had the Bell tech 3" in stock and ship quick. Should I wait? or take the Bell Techs? Anyone mind recommending? This is my first set of drop spindles. Am I going to have more clearence issues with the 3" drop? I also read on another forum that some belltechs push the rotors out 1/2" ? Help? thanks

[mcbassin]

Bump.....no help?

[Clyde65]

I would pass, contact someone from ECE or CPP, Jeff from CPP would shoot you a good deal.

[mcbassin]

you would pass on both.? i have already purchased the westerns. just wonder if i should wait for them?
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[lolife99]

If the Belltechs are the same money,... and for the same application,... I would get them.
Belltech spindles are normally higher priced than most other brands.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by Clyde65

I would pass, contact someone from ECE or CPP, Jeff from CPP would shoot you a good deal.

clyde,
I thought CPP and Western are the same spindles? Maybe I'm thinking of another brand?

Originally Posted by lolife99

If the Belltechs are the same money,... and for the same application,... I would get them.
Belltech spindles are normally higher priced than most other brands.

Keith,
I don't know if they are the same geometry or not. They are 3" drop and the Westerns are 2.5" I'm sure they are both for a 72 chevy.
Western part no.13120 LINK
Belltech part no. 3120, LINK

[barryvanhook]

Bell Tech has a good reputation, and I've never heard anyone bad mouth their products ... now I'm sure someone will pop up and put the lie to that comment ....

Barry

[leddzepp]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

clyde,
I thought CPP and Western are the same spindles? Maybe I'm thinking of another brand?



Keith,
I don't know if they are the same geometry or not. They are 3" drop and the Westerns are 2.5" I'm sure they are both for a 72 chevy.
Western part no.13120 LINK
Belltech part no. 3120, LINK

CPP sells Western brand spindles for 71/72 trucks. I have used them and they fit perfectly.

[Tx Firefighter]

You are correct about some of the CPP spindles. I have ordered CPP brand spindles from Summit and inside the CPP box is a pair of Western spindles. The CPP guy over in the suspension section confirmed that this was standard procedure for them.

Personally, I prefer 2.5 spindles because the wheel interference is much less of an issue than a 3 inch spindles causes. Both work fine, but if you ever put a 15 inch spare wheel on the truck, the 3 inch spindles can cause a ton of rubbing.

[63chevyll]

Is there truth to the bell tec's moving the wheels out
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[Tx Firefighter]

Yes. Every spindle I've used (Belltech, Western, ECE, DJM) moves the wheel out about 3/4 of an inch or so. To my knowledge, the only ones that don't, are the CPP modular spindles or whatever they call them. Those spindles were specifically marketed to NOT move the wheel out.

[lolife99]

I never understood people that worry about moving the wheel out "x" inches.
Most people will buy wheels without any reguard to backspacing. Period.
Or,... if the 8.5" wide wheel has a 5.25" BS but wont fit the rotor,... slap on a 1" spacer.
The wheel fits! Yeah!
It sticks out way farther than the rear wheels,... but hey,... they fit!?! Right?
(nothing looks worse to me than the front "track width" of the truck,... being wider than the rear "track width. MY opinion)

A drop spindle move the wheel up in relationship to the tie rod arms.
The first contact point is the tie rod against the wheel.
The spindle companies tweak the tie rod arm (of the spindle) in as much as possible and space the rotor out a minimal amout. (1/2"-3/4" over stock).
Then you add a shorter spring for even more drop,... which lays out the lower a-arm at a flatter profile than the stock set-up.
This also moves the spindle out a minute amount.

This is where lowering comes first.
Measuring comes second.
And purchasing wheels comes third.

Like TxFirefighter said,... only CPP new "modular" spindles "claim" to not move the wheel out.
They are also only a 2" drop spindle.

I have installed 2.5" and 3" drop spindles.
If you have a 15" rim with more than 3.5" of backspace,... expect to grind on the lower a-arm.
If your wheels are 17" or bigger,... no big deal.
If all of these options are not for you.
Don't lower your truck.

[63chevyll]

your saying 3/4 on each side.
Wow, i didnt even know.

Thats prob why my tires rubbed so bad

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by Tx Firefighter

Yes. Every spindle I've used (Belltech, Western, ECE, DJM) moves the wheel out about 3/4 of an inch or so.

Thanks for your help.
I called the salesman that sold them to me, and told him about my concerns. He promptly called an engineer that has worked for both companies. He said that both move the wheels/rotors outward .25" per side or .5 total track width. Not a big deal to me. Now, the rubbing on a spare wheel that kinda bugs me but I plan on at least seventeens or larger rims.

Originally Posted by lolife99

I never understood people that worry about moving the wheel out "x" inches.
Most people will buy wheels without any reguard to backspacing. Period.
Or,... if the 8.5" wide wheel has a 5.25" BS but wont fit the rotor,... slap on a 1" spacer.
The wheel fits! Yeah!
It sticks out way farther than the rear wheels,... but hey,... they fit!?! Right?
(nothing looks worse to me than the front "track width" of the truck,... being wider than the rear "track width. MY opinion)

A drop spindle move the wheel up in relationship to the tie rod arms.
The first contact point is the tie rod against the wheel.
The spindle companies tweak the tie rod arm (of the spindle) in as much as possible and space the rotor out a minimal amout. (1/2"-3/4" over stock).
Then you add a shorter spring for even more drop,... which lays out the lower a-arm at a flatter profile than the stock set-up.
This also moves the spindle out a minute amount.

This is where lowering comes first.
Measuring comes second.
And purchasing wheels comes third.

Like TxFirefighter said,... only CPP new "modular" spindles "claim" to not move the wheel out.
They are also only a 2" drop spindle.

I have installed 2.5" and 3" drop spindles.
If you have a 15" rim with more than 3.5" of backspace,... expect to grind on the lower a-arm.
If your wheels are 17" or bigger,... no big deal.
If all of these options are not for you.
Don't lower your truck.

Thanks for your help.
I agree with all you said. I'm not as anal about the perfect backspacing as you but I don't like it when the front is noticably wider. Getting the perfect wheel combination can be pretty high$$$ if you know what I mean. You want some that look good but fit right too.
I have a question for you. With your statements above about laying the control arms out, is my truck going to be alignable for everyday use. I really want this truck to be my daily driver not a show or fancy truck at all.

Originally Posted by 63chevyll

your saying 3/4 on each side.
Wow, i didnt even know.

Thats prob why my tires rubbed so bad

It should only be .25" per side. It might be like Keith said above, back spacing in combination with your springs flattening out the control arm.

[lolife99]

Mike,... If you install a drop spindle (2.5 or 3 inch) the alignment will be fine.
Drop springs change the camber and "flatten" the angle of the lower a-arms.
I've had 4/6 drop trucks for 30 years. Daily drivers, not show truck.
Ususally alignment problems come when there is frame damage and/or the use of a 3" drop spring,... in some trucks.
I have run 3" drop springs very successfully.
So have many members with 3/5 spring drops (no spindles)

Drop spindles will have no ill effect on alignments.

And,... I am very anal about wheel backspacing. Ha.

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by lolife99

Mike,... If you install a drop spindle (2.5 or 3 inch) the alignment will be fine.
Drop springs change the camber and "flatten" the angle of the lower a-arms.
I've had 4/6 drop trucks for 30 years. Daily drivers, not show truck.
Ususally alignment problems come when there is frame damage and/or the use of a 3" drop spring,... in some trucks.
I have run 3" drop springs very successfully.
So have many members with 3/5 spring drops (no spindles)

Drop spindles will have no ill effect on alignments.

And,... I am very anal about wheel backspacing. Ha.

more questions.....sorry this is my first one like this:
I am like 99% sure I am going to tell him to ship me the Bell Techs that are 3".
So, I am going to need 1" drop springs? or can I just trim one coil off? is that gonna make it too stiff?
In the rear, I just need new springs, spacers for the diff. and custom shock mounts. (which make the ones I just bought no good?) I wonder if anyone has a drawing of these mounts. I bet I could fab some up in a pinch.
Next, how can I verify my frame is straight/square? Just measure diagnal? I don't really know the history since it was purchased seperate.

[lolife99]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

I am like 99% sure I am going to tell him to ship me the Bell Techs that are 3".
So, I am going to need 1" drop springs? or can I just trim one coil off? is that gonna make it too stiff?
In the rear, I just need new springs, spacers for the diff. and custom shock mounts. (which make the ones I just bought no good?) I wonder if anyone has a drawing of these mounts. I bet I could fab some up in a pinch.
Next, how can I verify my frame is straight/square? Just measure diagnal? I don't really know the history since it was purchased seperate.

My rule of thumb for spring cutting is:
1/2 coil = 1" of drop.

How low do you want the front?
Which rear springs? 4, 5. or 6 inch drop?
What is the "spacer for the diff.", that you are talking about?

Diagonal measuring is all I have ever done.
A laser alignment frame machine (or whatever the body shops use now) I'm sure is more accurate. I'd cross check it and see how close it is.

What's the total drop you are looking for?
Also what size wheels?

[mcbassin]

Originally Posted by lolife99

My rule of thumb for spring cutting is:
1/2 coil = 1" of drop.

How low do you want the front?
Which rear springs? 4, 5. or 6 inch drop?
What is the "spacer for the diff.", that you are talking about?

Diagonal measuring is all I have ever done.
A laser alignment frame machine (or whatever the body shops use now) I'm sure is more accurate. I'd cross check it and see how close it is.

What's the total drop you are looking for?
Also what size wheels?

I am thinking 4" lower total up front and 6" in back to level it. I have seen guys running like 3" blocks under the differential and 3" shorter type springs. I didn't know you could get 6" drop from springs only.

I'm pretty sure I will be buying some 18" wheels.

[lolife99]

Originally Posted by mcbassin

I am thinking 4" lower total up front and 6" in back to level it. I have seen guys running like 3" blocks under the differential and 3" shorter type springs. I didn't know you could get 6" drop from springs only.

I'm pretty sure I will be buying some 18" wheels.

Most comapnies sell rear springs up to 5" drop.
ECE sells a 6" drop rear spring.
(That's all I've ever bought)

Drop blocks are fine in moderation.
Up to 1.5" drop block is the max with 15" wheels.
2" drop block can be used with bigger wheels.
Since the springs are all about the same price,... I try to do it all with springs.

Although, you will need shorter rear shocks, shock relocators, and an adjustable panhard bar to re-center the rearend.

I use 72BlckButy's "Blank Slate" thread as a good reference for this drop.
(4.5"/6" from ECE)
Nate has 2.5" spindles and 2" springs up front.
There are good pictures with ralleys (before and after),... and good pics with his nice set of 20's.

[lolife99]

I think the 3/4" (per side) widening of the track width is compared to drum brakes.
(That's why the 71-72 rearends are 3/4" per side wider,... to help match up with the wider stance of the new disc brake front end that GM came out with in 1971).
I think the drop spindles are .25" wider than the stock oem disc brake spindles.
That's the way I've always understood it.

[68 C-10 KID]

I'm running the mcgaughy's 2 1/2" drop spindle and 1" drop spring & CCP's tubular upper and lower A arms.
I have issues every know and then scraping my lower control arms during heavy compression through intersection.

I would stay far far away from the 3" drop spindles.

[63chevyll]

Originally Posted by 68 C-10 KID

I'm running the mcgaughy's 2 1/2" drop spindle and 1" drop spring & CCP's tubular upper and lower A arms.
I have issues every know and then scraping my lower control arms during heavy compression through intersection.

I would stay far far away from the 3" drop spindles.

id say run a taller tire if you can, but i just got used to banging and replacing my control arms all the time.

IN HS i would let my arms hit on a big roller road and let the sparks fly

[68 C-10 KID]

Originally Posted by 63chevyll

id say run a taller tire if you can, but i just got used to banging and replacing my control arms all the time.

IN HS i would let my arms hit on a big roller road and let the sparks fly

LOL I dig your HS.
I haven't played with to many tire heights. I'm trying to find a happy medium on drop and tire so it still can function on the street and strip.
ya know both of best worlds BS.

[63chevyll]

good news,

BTW, i have needed to align trucks after installing spindles.

they still need a slight toe adjustment. nothing is ever perfect

[68 C-10 KID]

lolife99
Have you tucked any 12" wide wheels in the back of these early trucks.
I think I came up with a 7 to 7 1/2'' back space to fit it in equally between frame and lip on rear.