Rollcage pics anyone?

[BossHogg69]

Hey guys, I'm toying with the idea of putting a cage in my '69 C10, but I don't plan to run tubes out the back of the cab to the rear frame rails. I would love to see some pics of what you guys have done and your thoughts about where/how to attach this to the frame. I do have a welder (Hobart Ironman 210) and the tools to cut/notch all the tubing, but I don't know if I should farm this out or try it myself. My primary motivation is really to stiffen things up for cornering, as this will be a 'Pro Touring' type build, but it will see some 1/4 mile action too. The motor and trans is in my sig, and I will be putting out around 600hp- so when I things dialed in, I will be running fast enough to need a cage anyway.

Thanks in advance for the pics, input and advice!

[vin63]

If you are going to install a cage in your truck, I would strongly recommend running at least a pair of rearward bars off of the main hoop. Depending on how fast/quick you end up going, the cage will not certify without those rearward structures. When I worked at Gale Banks, we built a couple of trucks that placed the rearward bars through the window, so there were no holes through the cab structure. The windows were Lexan/polycarbonate, so it was easy to notch or cut holes. This photo is of the S-10/15 that Don Ness built that uses the same concept:


Also, if this is your first roll cage build, I would work with a professional chassis builder, or contract it out.

[rattleon]

I agree w/vin63, you should run them out the back now. It's going to be easier now rather than later plus it sounds like you already know you'll need them later anyways.
I installed my cage after the fact, as I was building my '70 as a driver and I had already painted the inside of the cab, jambs, firewall etc..and started assembly...then decided to change everything and go do a little racing with it.
Here are some pics of mine. Made it a little tougher because of the finished paint, but I think it will work.

[team39763]

Doesn't Marv have his rear bars tucked out of sight...like below the window? I saw one other truck done something like that, but it was a full tube chassis truck.

Anybody got any pics or details about doing the sidebars where they connect in the front floor?

[Marv D]

Originally Posted by team39763

Doesn't Marv have his rear bars tucked out of sight...like below the window? I saw one other truck done something like that, but it was a full tube chassis truck......

Yes I do, BUT,, that's also why I have to slow it down to 11.50 and slower. IT AIN'T NHRA LEGAL. You can see the rear bars going through the bed, into the back brace, instead of the main hoop, in this picture

The ROLL BAR OR A CAGE cage MUST have the rear supports, the they MUST attach within 5" of the top of the main hoop, THE MAIN HOOP must be NO MORE THAN 6" above the drivers helmet.

You can put a secondary bar across the uprights 5" below the main hoop to attach to, OR you can bend the rear supports to come inside the cab (through the window) and then turn up the 6" to meet the main hoop.

Option is a funny car cage like Kevin's, I think you can get away without the rearward supports with that type of structure. But even then you will typically see the rear supports through the cab to make the structure rigid. At that level aesthetics are less important than safety!

Of all the welders, grinders, angle finders... the most important tool in building a cage or a bar is the RULE BOOK. Seriously,, have the rule book in your left hand when your cutting tubing stock with the right. That NHRA rule book is a slippery slope.

[Irish's_79_Step]

sorry wrong button.

[djracer]

[BossHogg69]

Thanks for the closeup and detailed pics. That's the kind of stuff I needed to see,like where/how to attach it to the frame.

Ratteon - I'm kind of in the same situation as you, I got into my build and realized I needed to make some changes. I haven't paintedmy cab yet, but I have painted the frame already, which now I'm glad I painted instead of powdercoated, so I can fix it after welding the cage it.

As for the rearward bars, I know they do offer a lot more rigidity and that's what I need, but man I really wanted kind of a subdued look to my truck (eventhough I have 335 rear tires out back!), and those bars poking out the back glass blow that out of the water. Maybe I can kind of hide them like team39763 said, but I don't know how that would affect their legality at the drag strip.

[Irish's_79_Step]

as far as i know for the cage to be legal the rear bars have to be at the highest point of the main loop. and the main loop has to be all one piece.

[team39763]

Hey Marv, will yours pass for just test'n'tune sessions?

[Marv D]

Absolutely not for anything quicker than 11.50 . It's a issue I fought with NHRA and was able to win over the techs here in Az with help from Division 7 senior tech. The rule states all equipment must pass tech. In short if you 'HAVE' a piece of equipment, it must pass tech, be current, etc.

An example we put a set of expired 3" belts in my son's 14 second camaro. Tech would not pass him because of the expired belts. Now mind you a well installed, but expired 3" harness (and 3 years old) is a heck of a lot better and safer than the stock 1985 GM belts being 20 years old. The rule just did not make sence. But the techs stance was "ALL" equipment must pass inspection. And he was right! They didn't say 'IF IT IS REQUIRED" it just says it must pass. An expired piece can't pass because it's expired so,, FAIL. Same issue with this bar. If I run 11.50 and slower the bar isn't required. I called the senior tech for Division 7 in Glendoria and there is some loophole that 'optional equipment' not intended for competition does not have to be removed as long as all 'reguired' equipment is in place and current for the ET ran. Mike pointed out the roll bar on the Cobra kit cars, the Miada and a bunch of other 2-seaters that had a decroative roll bar. This was back before NHRA moved the roll bar rul;e from 11.99 to 11.49 noting that most of these cars would barely break 14's let alone 11's.

So I guess the answer to what your asking is not a blanket NO,, just NO to anything quicker than 11.50. Slower and it's 'decroative'

[regan wilson]

See below

[regan wilson]

I have pondered the idea of the funny car cage deal ! I gettin too old to bend that much when I get in and out . My opinion is the rear strut bars add alot of structural integrity to the truck . I can put a jack under one framerail and jack the truck up and the other frame rail doesnt sag hardly any at all. You can look any of my wheels up pics and my truck doesnt twist .

[regan wilson]

[regan wilson]

[regan wilson]

[djracer]

Nice looking setup.

[D13]

You can't cut a hole in that glass. Lexan.

[team39763]

Check the local glass/window store for Lexan, you'll probably get the best deal on it. I used to order mine through Ebay and my local glass/window shop beat the Ebay price by 50%.

[noonzor]

anyguys got more pics on how they are connecting the main hoop to the frame?

[regan wilson]

Look at the diagonal bar that goes behind the seat in LJ534's pics . Thats the one you need to go to the frame with . The four corners of the cage just need stitch welded and bolted plates on the floor of the cab .(if you still have the steel floor) and of coarse you need solid cab mounts .

[Marv D]

Regan,, I surely wouldn't argue with someone of your calibure, and you see the toughest tech in NHRA so I'm 'asking' here, not arguing. The way I read the rules was that IF the vehcle has a 'frame' the main hoop and front down bars must be attached to the frame, not the floor (with plates) via outriggers of some sort. I did much the same as rattelon (and is probably the only thing I thought was 'legal' at all about my cage!!)

(darnit, can't link the picture from above)


Are you saying the main hoop and front down bars of the cage don't have to attach to the 'frame'? That would be Soooo much easier!

[LJ534Rat]

Couple more pictures of main hoop to outrigger on frame and others. I still have the measurements for the main hoop that was sent to S&W that they used to bend the main hoop.All the other bars were done custom locally .Cage has not been certified but should meet requirements.

[regan wilson]

Originally Posted by Marv D

Regan,, I surely wouldn't argue with someone of your calibure, and you see the toughest tech in NHRA so I'm 'asking' here, not arguing. The way I read the rules was that IF the vehcle has a 'frame' the main hoop and front down bars must be attached to the frame, not the floor (with plates) via outriggers of some sort. I did much the same as rattelon (and is probably the only thing I thought was 'legal' at all about my cage!!)

(darnit, can't link the picture from above)


Are you saying the main hoop and front down bars of the cage don't have to attach to the 'frame'? That would be Soooo much easier!

Yes thats what I'm saying . When we built my cage I consulted with longtime Div 4 tech man Harold Hayes through the whole process . I even had him check it before we painted it . When we were done it certified to 7.50 now it is an 8.50 becuase of rule changes (a funny car cage would be needed). I'm not nocking the way any one has done thiers . I think if you didnt have the steel floor you would for sure have to have the outriggers . Since mine has the stock steel floor and the cab is solid mounted to the frame I guess it met thier requirements . The only bars I have that go to the frame are the front and rear strut bars and the down bars behind the seat . I have never had even one problem about the cage at any track from Texas to Geargia to Chicago and all the other places in between.

[Marv D]

Originally Posted by regan wilson

Yes thats what I'm saying . When we built my cage I consulted with longtime Div 4 tech man Harold Hayes through the whole process . I even had him check it before we painted it . When we were done it certified to 7.50 now it is an 8.50 becuase of rule changes (a funny car cage would be needed). I'm not nocking the way any one has done thiers . I think if you didnt have the steel floor you would for sure have to have the outriggers . Since mine has the stock steel floor and the cab is solid mounted to the frame I guess it met thier requirements . The only bars I have that go to the frame are the front and rear strut bars and the down bars behind the seat . I have never had even one problem about the cage at any track from Texas to Geargia to Chicago and all the other places in between.

That's why it's so valuable having guys like you around here I know well the NHRA techs at the national events are HELL on every little detail and you are PROOF we don't 'have to have' the out-riggers off the frame for the main hoop. I read the book just as so many others have I guess, and built 2"x3" frame extensions to support the main hoop and front cage bars. If I had realized I could have welded them to the floor on a plate........ wow what a LOT of work I caused myself.

Oh well,,, when I make the cage 'legal' it's going to be a heck of a lot easier now!!!!

Only question is if having stock rubber cab mounts would make any difference in tech opinion there. You say your cab is solid mounted I assume with a solid aluminum body bushing replacing the stock rubber mount?

ummm now on second thought....... I guess now unfortunately I have compromised the stock steel floor board by cutting over sized holes for the uprights to go through. Before I could weld a cage / plate to it I probably would have to replace the piece of floor back to 'stock'. Tech can be so darn picky about things like that. Simply replacing the area with a patch of like 12g sheet stitched in,,,,, bet they will balk unless it's an OEM 'appearing' piece of floor. In my case I think the damage is done and the outriggers sure don't hurt from a strength issue.

But you guys who have yet to hack the floor to put a cage in,, should TAKE NOTE OF THIS THREAD