First Time Bagger.... trying to cup LCA's

[blazed870]

i just got my manual paddle valve setup from from way2lo2. He shipped it the same day I placed the order and it all came in a nicely packed box. Great guy to talk with on the phone.

Now I am trying to plan the install with the only modification for now being to cup my lower control arms. I read Spray-Bombs how-to and looked at KEV2809's build thread as well and just wanted to clarify some things before taking the plunge.

To get the right spot to cut the hole out of the lower control arm, just mount the bag to the upper control arm via the mounting plate(also purchased from way2lo2). drop it down onto the lower and mark . I am using 8" pipe that is 2 1/4" high with Airlift Doms 2600 against others recommendations to go bigger pipe or with a different bag.

Now this is where I have some questions. Once I have the hole cut out and my cup ready, should I try and angle the cup so that the bag sits in straighter? Or should I just weld it in with the bottom of the cup level with the bottom of the control arm?

If any one has done this was there anything you recomend or tips in this process?

I'm going to have more questions about the actual air suspension install, but I feel I will be going at a slow pace as I have been working 60 work weeks for the better part of 3 months(hence the money for the air suspension ) So I am just trying to get one thing done at a time.

I know most guys like pictures, so I will try to get some pics of my truck as it is now, the setup I bought and take some pics as I go. Let me remind you, I am by no means good at any of this, but I can't learn if I don't try. And I have found THIS awesome forum with so many helpful people from all around.

Wish me luck
Mickey

[shortbed70]

Check my build thread! I have made two sets one for mine and tubbedII also has a set I made for him. I didn't use pipe because I wanted room to upgrade later. Both mine have been level with the bottom of the arm just like the factory spring sets. I have no rubbing at all with re7's or 8's I can't remember.
Oh and good luck.
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[blazed870]

OK small update, sorry no pics yet.

Took my bed off today to make it easier to get to everything. Pulled the old cut springs, hats and shocks off the rear. Mocked up the Airlift Dom 2500's in the back. Looks like I will need some 4" long bolts to run through the trailing arms into the bottom hole on the bags. Now for some questions

1. Everyone mounts the bags with the air port and two mounting holes on the frame right? Just seems like the right thing to do as you wouldn't want the airline moving with the trailing arms. My problem is that I have a C pipe notch with it boxed in, so it is going to make it a little difficult to bolt everything in on the top. Was reading through the posts and saw a cool trick of using studs on the upper mount holes. Probably going to do that.

2. Should I think about purchasing the bolt in C-notch and cut out the pipe C-notch and boxing on the frame?

3. I was thinking about mounting the 2.5 gallon air tank and compressor on the outside of the frame rail, under the cab, in line of each other. Anyone have any objections or better setups than this? I don't want to mount them in the back because I am eventually going to have a rearmount gas tank.

4. I am thinking I need the super-track bar and some shock relocators(damn I wish I planned this better). Hoping to save a little dough and get some shocks from some the threads that reference OEM shocks versus buying them in the kit.

5. Thinking that now would be the time to put in some drop blocks since I have easy access to it. Was thinking about going with a 1" or 1.5" drop block since I am running 15" rallys. Do the blocks and u-bolts that jegs sells work or are they just for leaf-spring setups? If not, where is a good(cheap) place to get these?


My goal is to try and get the compressor and tank mounted, plumbed, and wired, and the rear bags setup for now. And do the front once I can finish cupping a spare set of lower control arms I have, and when I can afford to get the front-end rebuild parts.

I will try to post pics tomorrow with my current status.

[SCOTI]

See comments in RED below....

Originally Posted by blazed870

OK small update, sorry no pics yet.

Took my bed off today to make it easier to get to everything. Pulled the old cut springs, hats and shocks off the rear. Mocked up the Airlift Dom 2500's in the back. Looks like I will need some 4" long bolts to run through the trailing arms into the bottom hole on the bags. Now for some questions
Corrrect. Longer 3/8" bolts will be needed. Use a good thick washer as well. I like using a piece of .250" 2" sq steel strap cut down.

1. Everyone mounts the bags with the air port and two mounting holes on the frame right? Just seems like the right thing to do as you wouldn't want the airline moving with the trailing arms. My problem is that I have a C pipe notch with it boxed in, so it is going to make it a little difficult to bolt everything in on the top. Was reading through the posts and saw a cool trick of using studs on the upper mount holes. Probably going to do that.
The studs are a great idea. Be sure & coat the threads w/some Lock-Tite for insurance.

2. Should I think about purchasing the bolt in C-notch and cut out the pipe C-notch and boxing on the frame?
The bolt-in C-notches help increase the frames vertical thickness where it will be @ it's weakest (directly above the notched area). Since you already have a home-made set-up, I would leave it as is & maybe add additional material. It would also help if it over-lapped (make the outside re-inforcement plate wrap around the bottom & the inner re-inforcement wrap around the top of the frame rail.... something like that).

3. I was thinking about mounting the 2.5 gallon air tank and compressor on the outside of the frame rail, under the cab, in line of each other. Anyone have any objections or better setups than this? I don't want to mount them in the back because I am eventually going to have a rearmount gas tank.
Sounds good, just make sure anywhere you drill for mounting holes doesn't interfere w/wiring or other support lines.


4. I am thinking I need the super-track bar and some shock relocators(damn I wish I planned this better). Hoping to save a little dough and get some shocks from some the threads that reference OEM shocks versus buying them in the kit.
Definitely re-work your Panhard bar or get an aftermarket adj long bar. Porterbuilts is a nice piece; No Limit & CPP also have them. Modify your stock shock brackets or purchase the relocation bracket kit (check the same places for these too) & use replacement shocks. Check out Lakeroadsters threads for a good rear upper shock mount you can do yourself @ home. Combine it w/modifying your lower bracket & you're good to go for cheap.


5. Thinking that now would be the time to put in some drop blocks since I have easy access to it. Was thinking about going with a 1" or 1.5" drop block since I am running 15" rallys. Do the blocks and u-bolts that jegs sells work or are they just for leaf-spring setups? If not, where is a good(cheap) place to get these?
CPP has 1.5" alum drop blocks & the required longer u-bolts. No Limit might offer them too...

[blazed870]

<-------figured it was time to support this awesome site.

[Hottrucks]

check my build theres alot of CHEAP tips and how to's along with the measurements for your cups.....& front shocks that you can get at the parts store...


Leave the C notch build a 1" block

yes 4" bolt

yes to the studs

cut your track bar slide a pipe over it and then center your wheels at ride height and weld it back up

and where ever you put your tank ALWAYS think about your exhaust

if you need more help you can pm me and I'm happy to walk you though what I did

Jeff

[blazed870]

Here a pics of the truck and where I am at. The last pic is of the wheels I plan on running. I have 2 15x10's and 2 15x8's. I am thinking I might get a pair of 15x7's to run in the front, run the 15x8's in the back, and sell the 15x10's. Not sure yet though

[Hottrucks]

keep the 10's and the 7's it will look great and the 7's will help is wheel clearance up front

[blazed870]

Shortbed70- I like how you did your lower control arms, boxed like that but I think I might stick with the pipe method, I already have the pipe for it.

Hottrucks - I have looked at your post a couple times now, but I fear my welding skills(or lack there of) will keep me from doing a lot of projects where I weld. I guess there is no better way to learn than to try though.

Thanks for all the helpful input, I will definitely be hitting you guys up as I progress. It will be slow going as I am working 60 hour work weeks right now.

Scotti - When I am going to mount the compressor and tank, I think I am going to try and drill them from the back if possible, just so I don't hit any lines. I think I have read other posts where you recommended the porterbuilt panhard bar. Any particular reason you like it better than the others?

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by blazed870

Scotti - When I am going to mount the compressor and tank, I think I am going to try and drill them from the back if possible, just so I don't hit any lines. I think I have read other posts where you recommended the porterbuilt panhard bar. Any particular reason you like it better than the others?

Measure the basic length between the brackets. Install the bar. Twist one way to increase the length. Twist the opposite to reduce the length (just like adjusting a tie-rod). Other mfr's require removing one end, adjusting the length, & then re-installing it. Makes centering the rear end much easier....

[Hottrucks]

scoti is right it is easier but the truth is save the ching...your only going to adjust it ONCE and wit the bed off it will be cake either way....like I said I added to the stock one I bet its going to be about 3/4" funny part is you thing the would just make up bars for a certain drop??

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by Hottrucks

scoti is right it is easier but the truth is save the ching...your only going to adjust it ONCE and wit the bed off it will be cake either way....like I said I added to the stock one I bet its going to be about 3/4" funny part is you thing the would just make up bars for a certain drop??

I did my first long Panhard bar install w/the bed off & it was still a PITA to keep removing the one end to adjust it. It's much easier to install it once & adjust from there (bed on or off). The price diff is a wash if buying a aftermarket long/super Panhard bar kit.

I also would not recommend the OE location for anything more than a 4" drop or air bag suspension where the operator plans to air the truck out.

[Shane]

go with an adjustable AND longer track bar ... even jerry-rigged, a stock panhard bar is NOT long enough for bagged applications. too much side to side movement during suspension travel.

longer bar = larger arc radius = less side to side (lateral) movement of the rear-end.

[Hottrucks]

Originally Posted by Shane

go with an adjustable AND longer track bar ... even jerry-rigged, a stock panhard bar is NOT long enough for bagged applications. too much side to side movement during suspension travel.

longer bar = larger arc radius = less side to side (lateral) movement of the rear-end.

My Jerry-rigged bar goes from the PS trailing arm to the outside of the DS frame ...I agree longer is better exspecially if you plan on Big tires...also TRY ( notice I said TRY) not to do burn outs when your layed out..no matter how Kool it looks....

[blazed870]

Small update, hit a little snag but I am hoping it shouldn't be a problem

My truck has been at my dad's house. He is retired and gets bored so he has been working on my truck. I don't mind because it keeps him busy, and I haven't had as much time recenlty because of the work schedule.

Well, long story short, my cup doesn't line up with my bag. It is about 3/4" off so the bag rubs on the inside of the cup on one side. My question is, If I bolt the bag to the bottom of the cup to keep it center, will that be ok? Or do I need to redo the LCA? Luckily we did this on my extra set of LCA's so we can start over.

Last pic is of my redone front end, put a 71-72 grill in, black grill, black headlights, moved hood release under the front bumper, mounted turn signals to radiator support.

[Shane]

the cup should be on the bottom side of the control arm ... not the top.

[blazed870]

Yeah, those were just mockup pics of the pipe sitting on the control arm before I put the pipe in. I could see now, how the pics look though. HAHA

[Hottrucks]

is the bag off at full extention or cloapse??? it will change so look and see if it pintchs anywhere...I bolted my bags at the bottom too...also be sure to drill a 1/2" hole for the water to drain out of the cup

[tubbedII]

If it still rubs after you bolt it in the center, you'll need to redo it. A blowout on a bag with cupped arms could be catastrophic and WILL happen if it rubs, it's just a matter of when. I noticed too that you're going to run a 8" cup. Using that small of a cup is going to make alignment of the bag even more crutial to ensure no rubbing since the bags ballon out with air pressure.

I saw (forgot the member's name) cut the pipe down the side and stretch it out to make the cup bigger, maybe look into that option if you need to redo it? It's better to be safe than sorry (or worse).

[project 67 sub]

Originally Posted by tubbedII

If it still rubs after you bolt it in the center, you'll need to redo it. A blowout on a bag with cupped arms could be catastrophic and WILL happen if it rubs, it's just a matter of when. I noticed too that you're going to run a 8" cup. Using that small of a cup is going to make alignment of the bag even more crutial to ensure no rubbing since the bags ballon out with air pressure.

I saw (forgot the member's name) cut the pipe down the side and stretch it out to make the cup bigger, maybe look into that option if you need to redo it? It's better to be safe than sorry (or worse).

that would be me lol. let me see if i can find the thread and post a link to it for yah.





edit: here is the link. http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=436787

[Hottrucks]

^^^^ But a blown bag is not catastrophic even with a 500 under the hood lower the opsite corner presure and air up the other 2 and drive it home...been there because of a melted airline to my guages after a new exhaust

[N2TRUX]

Originally Posted by Hottrucks

^^^^ But a blown bag is not catastrophic....

Seriously? If your going to post this kind of haphazard advice, please don't post at all. Just because you are willing to prove your point by dropping a bag at speed means nothing. Does that apply to every truck ever built?

My truck was built to roll safely in the event of a complete system failure and it has. I still would not think to suggest that it is safe to operate if the system fails.

Please post in a responsible manner and promote safety at all times.

[Hottrucks]

Originally Posted by Hottrucks

I agree but Blazed is running the same set up as I am so he'll be all Good!!

But nothing is better than a well planned build with lots of measuring and knowing your tire size is critical I used a stock height tire (29 1/2") I have no issues stop to stop on the steering (even layed out)or in the bed tubs......I did alot of homework...and alot of what Blazed is doing finding people who have done it before with success...

Originally Posted by N2TRUX

Seriously? If your going to post this kind of haphazard advice, please don't post at all. Just because you are willing to prove your point by dropping a bag at speed means nothing. Does that apply to every truck ever built?

My truck was built to roll safely in the event of a complete system failure and it has. I still would not think to suggest that it is safe to operate if the system fails.

Please post in a responsible manner and promote safety at all times.

I dont think you read everything I posted....if it didn't work I would say so this way others can learn...I did TONS of homework for this build....just like I did a bolt in caddy swap and never touched the fire wall and have even pulled a head with out moving the power booster...HOMEWORK...this isn't my first Rodeo

[eightbanger]

I understand what Hottrucks is saying here, that with good planning and a hefty measure of homework during the build a blown bag shouldn't necessarily be "catastrophic" it's an emotive word in itself, a blown tire isn't necessarily "catastrophic" there would also be driver ability to take into account if either of these things were to happen. Lets face it if catastrophe was around the corner of every blown bag they would be taken off the market, and we'd still be driving on solid rubber tires.

Just sayin!!

[blazed870]

It rubs when it is fully collapsed, I honestly don't know where ride height is, but it doesn't rub once once it starts extending. That's a good idea, I might just take the 8" pipe out, cut some more off the side that is rubbing, and form the pipe to the new dimension.

As for drains, I put two holes in it, one on the outside of the control arm, and one on the inside. I figured these are the two lowest points(one high/one low and vice versa) depending how much air I have in my bags at the time.