At My Wits End!! - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

sjarrett71 · 04-09-2011, 10:26 PM

I'm having a problem with my truck. Last weekend I swapped out the granny low 4 speed with a TH400. Everything went perfect with the swap but when I went to start the truck it seemed like the starter was dragging (yes it is spaced out correctly). At first I thought it was a dead battery so I charged it and it didn't help. Put a different battery in and it fired right up. Ran it a while and shut it off, when I tried to start it again, same thing. I thought it was heat soak because after a while it started fine again. I have tried to charge the battery, changed the timing, installed a remote solenoid, and nothing helps. I haven't tried a NEW starter yet or a NEW battery but I have cleaned ALL the connections and even installed new battery cables. All of the ground wires and connection points have been cleaned as well.

I'm asking for your guys' input before I start buying parts I may not need.

Petie724x4 · 04-10-2011, 08:19 AM

ttt

dan s · 04-10-2011, 08:27 AM

Check the bushings in the nose and end cap of the starter.

OhioDan · 04-10-2011, 08:43 AM

Is the new ring gear on the flywheel compatible with the starter gear? Count the teeth on the standard flywheel and then count the teeth on the auto flywheel and see if thy're the same.

sjarrett71 · 04-10-2011, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioDan

Is the new ring gear on the flywheel compatible with the starter gear? Count the teeth on the standard flywheel and then count the teeth on the auto flywheel and see if thy're the same.

The starter and flywheel both came off a running driving truck. I started it a few times while it was still in the donor and it didn't have any issues.

powerdriver 1958 · 04-10-2011, 09:21 AM

The starter would be suspect . Starts cold but drags hot would be the reason . Yank the starter and let O reallys or Auto Blown do a current draw test .

*stich626* · 04-10-2011, 09:03 AM

did you put the flexplate on backwards...
sounds like you did

sjarrett71 · 04-10-2011, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stich626

did you put the flexplate on backwards...
sounds like you did

The flywheel went on correctly..but let me ask, how would that affect hot starts?

Shyguy · 04-10-2011, 10:04 AM

It sounds like a heat soak problem to me also. There is a guy on here that use to carry a spray bottle of water and when there was a problems starting his truck he sprayed the starter and it would work.

My truck has the same symptoms you describe since I put headers on the engine. Before the headers it would start just fine.

I am probably going to install a mini starter from a '95 or so Chevy 350 in the future which should fix the problem. That is what my son had to do on a couple of his trucks.

Wrenchbender Ret · 04-10-2011, 10:15 AM

I would do a good load test on the battery. If it is strong then the starter is about all that's left.

cdowns · 04-10-2011, 10:38 AM

i'd check the condition of the battery cables and terminals

sjarrett71 · 04-10-2011, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cdowns

i'd check the condition of the battery cables and terminals

The cables are new and all mounting points cleaned with a wire brush.
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fixit-p · 04-11-2011, 01:25 PM

If you want to be absolutely sure I would perform a voltage drop test to determine if it's the cables, battery or the starter. Since it's affected by heat I would do the test when cold and when hot were the problem is more of an issue. Here's a video with a good how to.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhRPLgH6uZg

csb#356 · 04-11-2011, 02:32 PM

It sounds like the starter drawing too much current to me. Check and see if your battery cables get hot when you're trying to start it.

STEVE60 · 04-11-2011, 08:52 PM

First post,, not new to forum. Been lurking for a while. Great forum, learning every time I log on.
I'm not sure on your truck, but some had a ground strap from the transmission bolt to frame. May have fell off when changing out. Make sure the starter has good ground to block.
Steve

neto · 04-12-2011, 01:09 PM

My 63 GMC is doing the same thing. I going to take the starter off and get it checked. Thanks.

sjarrett71 · 04-12-2011, 10:35 PM

Got the starter off and checked at the parts store. Guy must have run the test cycle 15 times and it tested good each time. It didn't even get warm to the touch. I had the money so I went ahead and bought a new one anyway. The battery tested fine too. The alternator that was on the truck tested bad so I had the pulley swapped onto a CS144 alternator I got at the salvage yard that tested good. Now I can't wait to get the starter installed and check it and get the alternator swap completed.

sjarrett71 · 04-13-2011, 09:38 PM

Got the new starter put on. truck fired right up and ran great. Let it run for about 1/2 hour to make sure it got nice and hot. Turned the truck off and it started again without any problems. I guess the starter was just old enough and wore out. I also got the CS144 alternator intalled. Seems to work good but does anyone know how to test the output on one while it's on the engine without taking it to the parts store? I have a voltmeter but that's about it.

*72lb4x4* · 04-13-2011, 09:49 PM

The usual test is measure the battery voltage with the engine off. 12.6V is a charged battery. Start the engine and measure again. I think 14.5V is about normal for a stock alternator. Since yours sounds unstock it may read higher, or you may need to give it some gas to bring the revs up while measuring.

sjarrett71 · 04-14-2011, 05:51 PM

I checked youtube before I read your comment. Thanks anyway. It appears as if everything is working fine. Thanks again!

**VetteVet** · 04-14-2011, 09:44 PM

Here's a website with some good info on the CS 144. I suggest you read it even though you already have the alternator on. What year is your truck BTW.

http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/zma...ternator01.htm

sjarrett71 · 04-14-2011, 09:55 PM

Thanks VetteVet, that's the artilce I used to wire mine. I only used to 100ohm resister though as it said anything between 35 and 350. My truck is a 72 GMC.

**VetteVet** · 04-15-2011, 12:52 AM

Good on you. I was curious if you knew about the resistor and I didn't want to type a page explaining about it if you already knew about it. sounds like you can relax a bit now.

sjarrett71 · 04-15-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VetteVet

Good on you. I was curious if you knew about the resistor and I didn't want to type a page explaining about it if you already knew about it. sounds like you can relax a bit now.

Thanks!

04-09-2011, 10:26 PM	#1
sjarrett71 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rolla, MO Posts: 2,463	At My Wits End!! I'm having a problem with my truck. Last weekend I swapped out the granny low 4 speed with a TH400. Everything went perfect with the swap but when I went to start the truck it seemed like the starter was dragging (yes it is spaced out correctly). At first I thought it was a dead battery so I charged it and it didn't help. Put a different battery in and it fired right up. Ran it a while and shut it off, when I tried to start it again, same thing. I thought it was heat soak because after a while it started fine again. I have tried to charge the battery, changed the timing, installed a remote solenoid, and nothing helps. I haven't tried a NEW starter yet or a NEW battery but I have cleaned ALL the connections and even installed new battery cables. All of the ground wires and connection points have been cleaned as well. I'm asking for your guys' input before I start buying parts I may not need. __________________ -Scott- Last edited by sjarrett71; 04-09-2011 at 10:27 PM.

04-10-2011, 08:19 AM	#2
Petie724x4 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada Posts: 155	Re: At My Wits End!! ttt

04-10-2011, 08:43 AM	#4
OhioDan Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: New Carlisle, Ohio,USA Posts: 1,404	Re: At My Wits End!! Is the new ring gear on the flywheel compatible with the starter gear? Count the teeth on the standard flywheel and then count the teeth on the auto flywheel and see if thy're the same. __________________ LIFE AIN'T EASY WHEN YER FAT AND GREASY! GMC= Got More Class! 1970 GMC LWB, Fleetside, 350/4spd, Flowmaster "40's", 2002 GMC 16" Rallies, cowl hood,and added a bunch of options that weren't there when I started.

04-10-2011, 09:21 AM	#6
powerdriver 1958 Kid's Mechanic Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Kansas City Posts: 8,241	Re: At My Wits End!! The starter would be suspect . Starts cold but drags hot would be the reason . Yank the starter and let O reallys or Auto Blown do a current draw test .

04-10-2011, 09:03 AM	#7
stich626 Account Suspended Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: hingham ma Posts: 1,721	Re: At My Wits End!! did you put the flexplate on backwards... sounds like you did

04-10-2011, 08:27 AM	#3
dan s Registered User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ormond Beach Florida Posts: 156	Re: At My Wits End!! Check the bushings in the nose and end cap of the starter. Last edited by dan s; 04-10-2011 at 08:29 AM.

04-10-2011, 10:04 AM	#9
Shyguy Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Southeast Missouri Posts: 2,436	Re: At My Wits End!! It sounds like a heat soak problem to me also. There is a guy on here that use to carry a spray bottle of water and when there was a problems starting his truck he sprayed the starter and it would work. My truck has the same symptoms you describe since I put headers on the engine. Before the headers it would start just fine. I am probably going to install a mini starter from a '95 or so Chevy 350 in the future which should fix the problem. That is what my son had to do on a couple of his trucks. __________________ '67 Chevy C-20 short stepper - build complete, 454/SM-465. '75 C-30 Single Cab DRW-350 small block/NP-435. '77 GMC-6500 Dump Truck, 427 Tall Deck. '92 GMC K-3500 Duallie, 454/4L80E.

04-10-2011, 10:15 AM	#10
Wrenchbender Ret Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Overland Park, Ks. Posts: 5,207	Re: At My Wits End!! I would do a good load test on the battery. If it is strong then the starter is about all that's left.

04-10-2011, 10:38 AM	#11
cdowns Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: daytonabeach Posts: 22,956	Re: At My Wits End!! i'd check the condition of the battery cables and terminals __________________ 71c-10 350/2004r/4:11 lowered3/4 longbed/dead by hurricane MEANING OF DEATH::::: SOMEBODY ELSE GETS YOUR STUFF DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK TAKE MY ADVISE;I DON'T USE IT ANYWAY

04-11-2011, 02:32 PM	#14
csb#356 Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Pinehurst, Idaho Posts: 311	Re: At My Wits End!! It sounds like the starter drawing too much current to me. Check and see if your battery cables get hot when you're trying to start it.

04-11-2011, 08:52 PM	#15
STEVE60 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Inman SC Posts: 29	Re: At My Wits End!! First post,, not new to forum. Been lurking for a while. Great forum, learning every time I log on. I'm not sure on your truck, but some had a ground strap from the transmission bolt to frame. May have fell off when changing out. Make sure the starter has good ground to block. Steve

04-12-2011, 01:09 PM	#16
neto Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Madera, California Posts: 291	Re: At My Wits End!! My 63 GMC is doing the same thing. I going to take the starter off and get it checked. Thanks.

04-12-2011, 10:35 PM	#17
sjarrett71 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rolla, MO Posts: 2,463	Re: At My Wits End!! Got the starter off and checked at the parts store. Guy must have run the test cycle 15 times and it tested good each time. It didn't even get warm to the touch. I had the money so I went ahead and bought a new one anyway. The battery tested fine too. The alternator that was on the truck tested bad so I had the pulley swapped onto a CS144 alternator I got at the salvage yard that tested good. Now I can't wait to get the starter installed and check it and get the alternator swap completed. __________________ -Scott-

04-13-2011, 09:38 PM	#18
sjarrett71 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rolla, MO Posts: 2,463	Re: At My Wits End!! Got the new starter put on. truck fired right up and ran great. Let it run for about 1/2 hour to make sure it got nice and hot. Turned the truck off and it started again without any problems. I guess the starter was just old enough and wore out. I also got the CS144 alternator intalled. Seems to work good but does anyone know how to test the output on one while it's on the engine without taking it to the parts store? I have a voltmeter but that's about it. __________________ -Scott-

04-13-2011, 09:49 PM	#19
72lb4x4 Account Suspended Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: DFW Posts: 1,427	Re: At My Wits End!! The usual test is measure the battery voltage with the engine off. 12.6V is a charged battery. Start the engine and measure again. I think 14.5V is about normal for a stock alternator. Since yours sounds unstock it may read higher, or you may need to give it some gas to bring the revs up while measuring.



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04-14-2011, 05:51 PM	#20
sjarrett71 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rolla, MO Posts: 2,463	Re: At My Wits End!! I checked youtube before I read your comment. Thanks anyway. It appears as if everything is working fine. Thanks again! __________________ -Scott-

04-14-2011, 09:44 PM	#21
VetteVet Msgt USAF Ret Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 8,709	Re: At My Wits End!! Here's a website with some good info on the CS 144. I suggest you read it even though you already have the alternator on. What year is your truck BTW. http://temp.corvetteforum.net/c3/zma...ternator01.htm __________________ VetteVet metallic green 67 stepside 74 corvette convertible 1965 Harley sportster 1995 Harley wide glide Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative. Last edited by VetteVet; 04-14-2011 at 09:44 PM.

04-14-2011, 09:55 PM	#22
sjarrett71 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rolla, MO Posts: 2,463	Re: At My Wits End!! Thanks VetteVet, that's the artilce I used to wire mine. I only used to 100ohm resister though as it said anything between 35 and 350. My truck is a 72 GMC. __________________ -Scott-

04-15-2011, 12:52 AM	#23
VetteVet Msgt USAF Ret Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kalamazoo, Michigan Posts: 8,709	Re: At My Wits End!! Good on you. I was curious if you knew about the resistor and I didn't want to type a page explaining about it if you already knew about it. sounds like you can relax a bit now. __________________ VetteVet metallic green 67 stepside 74 corvette convertible 1965 Harley sportster 1995 Harley wide glide Growing old is hell, but it beats the alternative.

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