Wheelies/Wheel Stands

[The Reca]

As the title says Wheelies/Wheel stands.. I would like to start some serious discussion on this. Has anyone done it to there c10? what steps where taken? What should one not do? what should one be aware of when building for this??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohLgT0pDV4o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8MIPQM2gzo

Just for eye pleasure lol but if anyone has done it or know someone who has done it or has any info on it what so ever id like to know.

[The Reca]

Guess not a lot of interest here lol

[bigjimzlll]

Are you talking a purpose built wheel stander like the first video or just a bad set up like the second video.
The more time you waste going up instead of down the track is just that...a waste.
I can set up my truck to lift the wheels a lot, but it will lose ET.
To answer your general question it is about weight transfer/suspension and power.
The more weight you have on the front end the more power you need to transfer weight to the rear.
A purpose built wheel stander will have the engine placed as high and back as far as possible. Most have the engine in the rear.
After all...they make wheelie bars so you don't do big wheelies.

[Robertjust777]

anymore on that green truck? or pics of it?

[The Reca]

Originally Posted by bigjimzlll

To answer your general question it is about weight transfer/suspension and power.
The more weight you have on the front end the more power you need to transfer weight to the rear.
A purpose built wheel stander will have the engine placed as high and back as far as possible. Most have the engine in the rear.

Ok just about everyone says it has to do with your suspension power and gearing. But what exactly do you have to do to the suspension to get it to respond the way I'd want to. should the rear be stiffer? or the front? do sway bars hurt the chances of lifting it up or help? Is it a must for me to have big wheels in the back and skinnys up front?

[shortbed70]

Are you building a wheel stander like the first video or just wanting to yank the front tires on launch?
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[The Reca]

Just wanting to yank the front end up a bit. I am not building a track car so it slowing down my 1/4 mile run doesnt bother me at this time. I just think its cool to do and would like to accomplish it. In 25yrs Ive known no one whose done it. To me it sounds like something to experience.

[team39763]

In the Fast and Furious movie they put 300 pounds in the back of that Chevelle to make it do the wheelstand during that 4 wide race scene. I believe they said they put 700 pounds in the back of the Camaro to make it wheelie in the desert scene. Rear suspension mods are a MUST. That along with enough ballast in the back should help you yank the front(assuming you got some power under the hood). Get in touch with Super73, he had 100 pounds in his tailgate and his truck yanked the tires a bit.

[Super73]

It's all about storing energy for weight xfer. The pic in my avtar was with a 12.33 ET with no weight in the tailgate. Like Jim said, going up instead of out is a waste of energy and results in slower ET's. See the suspension 101 thread for some other info and a spreadsheet to help you find a spring.

Here are some suggestions

For the front suspension:
Put the longest lightest spring you can in the front while achieving your wanted ride height. That will store a lot of energy.
Relocate your front ball joint to get more front suspension travel (bolt it in from the bottom of the a-arm, not the top like it is from the factory).
Put an adjustable shock in the front and put it on the lightest possible setting so it transfers weight quickly
Remove the front sway bar if you have one

For the rear suspension:
Move the front mounting hole of the LCA down as far as possible (you will need to make a new bracket).
Put a very light /long spring in the back while achieving your wanted ride height.
Put an adjustable shock in the back, again on the lightest setting.
Put a big fat antiroll bar in the back to keep the truck level (keeps the axle from roataing).

Other things:
Buy an alum block and alum heads
As mentioned, move the motor as high and as far back as possible.
Move the batterey to the back of the bed
Put a fuel cell as far back in the bed as possible
Cut open the tailgate and add as much metal as you can
Put a posi with steep gears (but gear it according to your 1/8 or 1/4 mile racing).
Stick a big fat sticky tire on it


The more power you make, the higher you will go.

[The Reca]

I highly appreciate the feed back guys. after reading it im thinking there is a reason a lot of people dont build for it lol. I guess I will keep building in the direction I have been. ive always found it to be cool and maybe one day I will build for it. but right now i think its best if i dont.

[Super73]

The same principals apply when I provide insight on what I have been taught and find to work. The biggest difference is how one uses their shock and how they set the rear suspension up. With both a wheelie king and a flat level launch, you still want long light springs all around. You just tighten things up with shock valving and put more antisquat in the rear suspension which in turn reduces front end rise. Both utilize a big anti roll bar, and both should have weight moved around the vehicle.

[The Reca]

How much wear does doing a wheelie put on the parts? ive heard mix reviews on it..

[nomrlz]

if you are pulling wheels in a heavy vehicle especially. it is putting a ton of stress on the driveline. i posted a pic of my 4700lb wagon pulling the left wheel. after a few years of doing this. the sheetmetal around the post latch on the passenger rear door was tearing away and had to be fixed/reinforced. a good stall, plenty of gear, plenty of power and plenty of traction will get it done. and that only takes plenty of money

[shawnt]

When you guys say "going up is wasted motion" are you talking on an N/A car or power adder car. Also, big tire or small tire?

It's not always wasted..

To the OP. Super73 is on the money with the stored energy and weight transfer.

[Marv D]

My shoebox Nova had a nasty habit of throwing the skinnies in the air. I won't say it wsn't 'fun' but it sure got expensive. Headers, oil pans, rebuilding the front suspension every other race (was the stock flimsy Chevy II front suspension back then) and wasn't cheap to cure either!
http://www.small-block-chevy.com/MOV00281.MPG

[The Reca]

Very nice vid. and I can see how it can get expensive. How much power does your nova make?

[Marv D]

That motor made 666HP on a Superflo 901 dyno. The devils motor LOL. Is funny. New motor makes about 133 more hp, now run a trans with 1 less gear, added training wheels to the rear and it's nearly a full second quicker. Like so many have said,, wheels up may be 'fun', but it doesn't only cost $'s, it cost ET too.

[67swb72klb]

here is another one

[shawnt]

It doesnt always cost et.
Again, na car or power adder car? Big or small tire?
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[The Reca]

Originally Posted by shawnt

It doesnt always cost et.
Again, na car or power adder car? Big or small tire?
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Which would benefit from front end lift?

[bigjimzlll]

Actually it costs ET. Waisted inertia going up that could be transfered to forward motion, however with a small tired/limited suspention car you have to have all the weight transfer you can to get down the track. Look at stockers/ super stockers that have huge wheel stands and realitivly slow ET's.

If they could hook up, believe me they wouldn't pull the wheels.

[Super73]

Originally Posted by bigjimzlll

If they could hook up, believe me they wouldn't pull the wheels.

Right... For this very reason I say use a shock to control the front end rise and use as little rise as you need to make it hook. If that means putting it in the air for 100' so be it. The only time wheel stands are faster is when you can't over come the traction issue.

Another thing that people don't realize though, some times when the front tires come off the ground, it can unsettle the rear suspension with the shock of it. It is much less likely to happen with a very light front suspension and wheel tire combo vs a heavier set up. Once the suspension is maxed out with its free travel so to speak, it gets hit with half of the weight of the UCA, LCA, shocks, springs and the full weight of the spindle, caliper, rotor, rim and tire. This adds up to roughly 245lbs in our trucks. This was happening in the pics in my avtar. I was toping out the shock and could not slow the rise down as it was already in the tightest setting that the Competition Engineering shocks had (70/30). If I had more power at the the time, it might have been able to over come it (it would have to be a lot more power to gain enough momentum), but I didn't. Even then though, chances are it would still have spun the tire 3-5' out like it was doing.

On a 3 day weeked at the track the above netted me a best of 1.678 with an average of 1.745 over 17 passes. Worst (3) 60's were (2) 1.82's and a 1.816. As you can see, consistancy suffered with a .138 spread. I was all over the map all 3 days.

Next time out with several changes, I cut better 60's with less front rise. Changes were, Rancho 9000 shocks all the way around, upgraded antiroll bar in the rear, 4.56 gear, adjustable rear control arm mounting brackets (increased antisquat), and bolting the upper control arm ball joint in from the bottom of the control arm rather than the top.

These changes moved me to best of 1.598 with an average of 1.625 over 5 passes in one day. Not only did I gain .08 in the 60' but look at the change in consistancy. The worst 3 were 1.677, 1.626, and 1.621. The spread went to .079, 57.2% less variance with in the 60'. Had I not changed the suspension (shocks, ball joint flip and antiroll bar), I bet the added gear might have made it worse.

Point I am trying to make is that in few cases pulling the front tires will help your 60's. NA limited tire classes with cars making a ton of power is probably the exception to the rule.

[Marv D]

One more thought, My car included I know of 5 high horsepower n/a small block cars that 60' better when they get 1/2 to 1-1/2 rotation of tirespin at launch. Dead hooking will result in broken parts, or huge wheelstands typically (which is part of what Shaun is talking about if I read correctly)

[shawnt]

On small tire na cars it needs to come up to get the weight on the tires. I know a couple people who have done this and it netted better 60 and et times. One of them has way faster ets when the back wheels trip the 60 timer with the time slips to prove it. Both are na small tire cars. If its got those "fatty" tires t shouldnt do this. You guys are saying if it comes up any then its wasted. You gotta give it what it wants. On a friends car the higher his front tires then the better et. Hes doing 1.31 60' another is doing 1.3009 was his best. With front tires up. If they dont come up it results in much slower 60s.
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[shawnt]

Here yall go. Read up and see if it may change your mind. Its an interestin subject with all the different theories. http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=351423
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