T5 clutch question

[nachodog2]

I've gone thru alot of the threads but still need a little clarification. I'm installing a v6 t5 out of an s10 and got the clutch pack for said t5. Non world class by the way. Now, here's my question, do i have to switch out the whole clutch pack or can i just use the clutch( by that i mean the part with the spline input) i see that the mating part is alot smaller but is this doable? Reason i ask is cause the pressure plate bolt holes don't line up to the ones on the flywheel. Help!
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[halfcockedcustoms]

I used a astro van clutch,,,,plate is the correct size for our trucks flywheel/pressure plate

[Leadfoot Lambert]

Like halfcocked said, use the astro van disc its 14 spline and 10 inch dia napa part number rcf4301 or 11 inch dia 14 spline napa number rcf4212.

[nachodog2]

Thanx guys, napa here i come.
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[wc63]

sorry i dont have any input, but im curious as to whether or not you need to manufacture a tranny cross member and resize the shaft for this application

[nachodog2]

I'll be adding a crossmember to it. I had my trans built as a v6 camaro trans with the 1 inch 14 spline input shaft with a shortened retainer. Some people cut the end of the shaft but i measured my old trans and they're identical length, so i got lucky with mine.
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[wc63]

do you know what year s10 it was and what size your first gear is. i hear if the first gear is too low people have to take off from second. so you end up with four gears and a low. which is still better than my 3 speed

[padresag]

it is an 11" clutch disc that you need from an astro van. you should be able to order it separately, without having to order what they call a clutch assy kit, which is everything.
if the partsperson has any smarts they should be able to find one alone
ron

[jocko]

nacho dog - I've got the exact same specs as your setup - 3.76 1st (although the tag decodes to 3.97 - but it is clearly a 3.76 when I measure it) and a 3.73 rear. I'm a little anxious that first gear won't be very useful. Also have 29"+ tall tires (which helps, but not a whole lot).

I agree with wc63. Am going into this eyes open, if I really just get a 4 speed with an 0/d 4th gear, Im ok with that. But I'm also considering having a taller (lower numerical) first gear into the trans before I install it - i.e. the gear from a camaro v8 trans - it's 2.something or other.

Is yours already installed? If so, I'd really like to hear your impression on your 1st gear and whether or not the 3.76/3.73 combo is driveable/useful in 1st gear or if you're starting off in 2nd.

Thanks - and nice truck!

jocko

[nachodog2]

Thanx jocko, it's going in by wednesday. I needed a little clarification as to whether i could use my old pressure plate with the new clutch. Once this is done i will post my findings.
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[jocko]

Originally Posted by nachodog2

Thanx jocko, it's going in by wednesday. I needed a little clarification as to whether i could use my old pressure plate with the new clutch. Once this is done i will post my findings.
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Hey Nachodog, how'd it go!? I'm itching to know.

[wc63]

Originally Posted by jocko

Hey Nachodog, how'd it go!? I'm itching to know.

x2

[Ornery37]

not sure if you know, I have heard this from others and it has happened to me, make sure that you are above 55mph when in 5th gear. Cause in my 37 chevy pu I was cruzing along at 55 or 60 mph and had to slow down below 55 cause of someone ahead of me and stayed in 5th, gave it just a little gas and no more 5th gear. Never did take it apart to see why.

[jocko]

Great, thanks Nachodog, looking fwd to it!

[nachodog2]

So, after talking to my trans guy i am still confused. Here is the question, can i use my original pressure plate with a new astro van 11 inch clutch?
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[padresag]

I have already said it once before that is what you need, and just as long as your pressure plate is 11".
what is your trans man,; a true mechanic or a b/y'r
ron

[nachodog2]

I'll check on that pressure plate padre. As far as the trans guy, he's an idiot, he just told me that they ( by they i don't know who ) no longer make the 11 inch clutch. He ended up being the male receptionist. I spoke to the actual builder and he said the same as you. At least they're gonna refund me the money on the 9 in clutch they had sold me.
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[jocko]

HA! Just checkin... Took mine out today. I think I've got a problem....

My input shaft is too long (which I was expecting), BUT(!) I was also hoping that my 66's bell housing would have the larger opening for the big index ring (i.e. the WRONG one for the T5), but the index ring on my old bell was the smaller one - the correct one for a T5. Ugh. Now, unless I'm losing my mind - that means the Hamilton adapter WON'T work becuase you have to have both problems for it to be workable (i.e. long input shaft AND the large index ring bell housing - and THEN the Hamilton adapter will work).

So, I'm a little stumped. Just spent the past half hour scrubbing the grease out of the back of my head from laying on the garage floor. I went through a whole box of blue gloves and still got covered from head to toe, but that's part of the fun (I guess....)

At this point, I think my options are:
a. find a large opening bell housing and use the Hamilton plate
or
b. take the T5 to a trans shop and get the shorter input shaft (and correct i/p collar length - my T5's is too long I think). This way I can just pop the T5 into my current bell housing and all will fit just fine). But this could get a little expensive. Because if I do it, I'll probably have them put the camaro 1st gear in also (since I'd prefer the 2.9-ish vice my T5's current 3.76).
or
c. Just do what padre mentioned above, get the shaft shortened and some more spline cut in... SHOULD a competent trans shop know how to do this? If ya gotta take the input shaft out anyway, wouldn't it be simpler to just get a camaro i/p shaft put in instead - it'd be the correct length, etc. Interested in comments on this, specifically! Might be the cheapest option and would still allow me to use an 11" astro van 14 splin clutch (as opposed to the need to get a camaro clutch if I put in a camaro i/p shaft).

Anyone got any better ideas? Again, here's the problem in a nutshell:
My 66's bell housing opening and the T5 index ring match in size (i.e. both are the smaller diameter).
AND
my T5's input shaft (and collar) is too long.

So, because the bell opeing is the RIGHT one for the T5 and the input shaft length is the WRONG one for my truck, I cannot use the Hamilton adapter plate. Appreciate any help.

By the way, the bell housing with the frame mounts made it "not so fun" to get the clutch, pressure plate, and then the bell housing itself off the truck. Holy frijoles, that was a lot harder than I recall on my 57 chev... Finally tilted the engine a little fwd and got everything to drop out. Luckily not on my head. (had a minor (ok MAJOR) scare when I rotated the engine via the flywheel and heard a nasty crunching sound - I thought I had dented my oil pan by using a block of wood on top of my floor jack to tilt the rear of the engine fwd (carefully) so I could wiggle the bell out - so was afraid the noise was the crank rubbin something inside the pan... It "looked" a little dented, but it wasn't - it was just the fan rubbin the shroud because the engine's tilted forward temporarily - WHEW!)....

Good news is I finally got some fluid for my parts washer so I can clean all this crap up. Man o man, that solvent crap is expensive.... (at NAPA).

Oh well, gotta run. To the parts store, of course....

Hey nachodog - sorry, don't want to hijack your thread - but we're kinda doing the same thing! I may post another one just to not horn in.

But the pic proves it - no turning back now....

[padresag]

Originally Posted by jocko

HA! Just checkin... Took mine out today. I think I've got a problem....

My input shaft is too long (which I was expecting), BUT(!) I was also hoping that my 66's bell housing would have the larger opening for the big index ring (i.e. the WRONG one for the T5), but the index ring on my old bell was the smaller one - the correct one for a T5. Ugh. Now, unless I'm losing my mind - that means the Hamilton adapter WON'T work becuase you have to have both problems for it to be workable (i.e. long input shaft AND the large index ring bell housing - and THEN the Hamilton adapter will work).

So, I'm a little stumped. Just spent the past half hour scrubbing the grease out of the back of my head from laying on the garage floor. I went through a whole box of blue gloves and still got covered from head to toe, but that's part of the fun (I guess....)

At this point, I think my options are:
a. find a large opening bell housing and use the Hamilton plate
or
b. take the T5 to a trans shop and get the shorter input shaft (and correct i/p collar length - my T5's is too long I think). This way I can just pop the T5 into my current bell housing and all will fit just fine). But this could get a little expensive. Because if I do it, I'll probably have them put the camaro 1st gear in also (since I'd prefer the 2.9-ish vice my T5's current 3.76).
or
c. Just do what padre mentioned above, get the shaft shortened and some more spline cut in... SHOULD a competent trans shop know how to do this? If ya gotta take the input shaft out anyway, wouldn't it be simpler to just get a camaro i/p shaft put in instead - it'd be the correct length, etc. Interested in comments on this, specifically! Might be the cheapest option and would still allow me to use an 11" astro van 14 splin clutch (as opposed to the need to get a camaro clutch if I put in a camaro i/p shaft).

Anyone got any better ideas? Again, here's the problem in a nutshell:
My 66's bell housing opening and the T5 index ring match in size (i.e. both are the smaller diameter).
AND
my T5's input shaft (and collar) is too long.

So, because the bell opeing is the RIGHT one for the T5 and the input shaft length is the WRONG one for my truck, I cannot use the Hamilton adapter plate. Appreciate any help.

By the way, the bell housing with the frame mounts made it "not so fun" to get the clutch, pressure plate, and then the bell housing itself off the truck. Holy frijoles, that was a lot harder than I recall on my 57 chev... Finally tilted the engine a little fwd and got everything to drop out. Luckily not on my head. (had a minor (ok MAJOR) scare when I rotated the engine via the flywheel and heard a nasty crunching sound - I thought I had dented my oil pan by using a block of wood on top of my floor jack to tilt the rear of the engine fwd (carefully) so I could wiggle the bell out - so was afraid the noise was the crank rubbin something inside the pan... It "looked" a little dented, but it wasn't - it was just the fan rubbin the shroud because the engine's tilted forward temporarily - WHEW!)....

Good news is I finally got some fluid for my parts washer so I can clean all this crap up. Man o man, that solvent crap is expensive.... (at NAPA).

Oh well, gotta run. To the parts store, of course....

Hey nachodog - sorry, don't want to hijack your thread - but we're kinda doing the same thing! I may post another one just to not horn in.

But the pic proves it - no turning back now....

hey ; you can do it all by yourself. if I remember properly you just cut 1/4" off the frt of the pilot shaft. 4 1/2" angle grinder with a cut of wheel and bevel the frt corner of the pilot shaft a hair so that it makes it easier for it to enter the pilot bushing. you can clean up those splines with a small file and you may just have to ease the female spline on the trans side of the clutch disc. just enough so that the clutch disc is free of the flywheel when the clutch pedal is depressed.there is enough written info on it. Who ever that you take it to will more than likely do the same thing that I just mentioned. you have to learn how to do things for yourself if your going to keep this thing for awhile or have deep pockets
ron
the alternative is to take your b/housing to a machine shop and have them make a 1/4" plate to match the b/housing and the frt brg retainer...... or they can enlarge the frt brg retainer hole to match your other adaptor

[jocko]

70blazer - any issues with bell hsg/indexing ring mismatch or input shaft issues?

Wish I could get by with just a disk, but I am gonna need a flywheel, pressure plate, and disk... Weee!

[jocko]

Thanks Ron. Not a matter of "to cut or not to cut" with a cutoff wheel - I've got no problem doing that - but the real issue is whether or not I'll have sufficient splined area placement. At first, (i.e. before I started measuring) I thought I could not just lop off the narrow dia i/p shaft end because there wouldn't be enough of the small dia i/p shaft tip left to go into the pilot bearing. But once I did measure - here's what I found:
- trans mount surface to tip of i/p shaft: 3-spd = 6+5/8" ... T5 = 7+1/16" (so, ~7/16" diff)
- length of narrow pilot bearing part of shaft: 3-spd = 7/8" ... T5 = 1+3/16" (so, ~5/16" diff).

So, I MAY have enough to work with - the other issue is that the i/p retaining collar is about 1+3/8" longer on the T5, i.e. much less exposed spline than the 3-spd. Could take a cutoff wheel to that too, or possibly swap collars between the transmissions if that's possible, BUT, I still come back to the real issue - whether or not the splined area will fully engage the clutch disk. That can't be fixed with a file, unfortunately.

Don't have deep pockets, and actually enjoy when I get to take the cutoff wheel to something - but, since the parts exist in other transmissions (i.e. camaro trans), the correct length i/p shafts are out there and it might be worth it to find one to avoid the cutoff wheel approach, if possible. I always lean more to the cutoff wheel as a last resort because swapping of factory parts ensures a correct fit/engagement. But it may just come to that before it's over with! Thanks for the input.

[oldtrux]

hey jocko,just curious does your truck have a removable hump floor?i,m eventually doing a similar swap.my truck is a 283 with non removable low hump floor and wondering about any t5 floor clearance issues although i dont think there would be any problems.thanks dan

[jocko]

i believe I have the same - havent removed my rubber mat yet though (and never have in the past!) so not positive - working on all the under truck stuff right now. Regardless, have heard from several sources that T5 will fit under a low hump.

I believe to make life simpler, I'm going to cut out the rivets holding the bell hsg cross-member in and make it a removeable crossmember. It was exactly in the way of removing the stuff, and sticking it back in will be an issue - plus, would be nice to make it removeable.

[oldtrux]

that's a great idea,removable crossmember would make it a lot easier to work on these things.thanks jocko.i dont think floor clearance will be a problem either,just wanted to verify.

[padresag]

Originally Posted by jocko

i believe I have the same - havent removed my rubber mat yet though (and never have in the past!) so not positive - working on all the under truck stuff right now. Regardless, have heard from several sources that T5 will fit under a low hump.

I believe to make life simpler, I'm going to cut out the rivets holding the bell hsg cross-member in and make it a removeable crossmember. It was exactly in the way of removing the stuff, and sticking it back in will be an issue - plus, would be nice to make it removeable.

i think that your just making yourself more work
ron