New tires and C notch yesterday

[FFredo]

Well I decided to just do it. So with help from my buddy Jimmy, we pulled out the plasma cutter, some 3/16 plate and various hammers.
Nither of us had ever done a C-Notch but we did stay at a "holiday inn" once so we jumped in with both feet. It was a pretty straight forward afair with the most important step in our opinion was measure 10 times and then check it again.
Once I established the amount of drop (in this case 3.5inches) we laid out our marks then installed the home made Cs. I tacked those inplace and used them as the template for the cutting of the frame. Right about here is when I fell in love with Jimmy's pasma cutter. What a great tool and one that is now on the list of must have.
After Jimmy made the initial cuts to the frame rails I went in with 40 grit flap wheels on my angle grinder and cleaned it up to the C's. Then it was just a matter of welding every thing solid. After we finished that part up we started on flipping the axle over to the top of the springs and reinstalled everything.
In the next day or so I will cut and weld in the boxing plate around the new C notches. So for now the truck is parked

Leasons learned:
C notches are a pretty easy way to drop a rear end. Minimal cost for materials if you have the tools.
It was a lot of fun!
I would have never guessed how hard it is to cut and grind off the stock pads for the leaf springs/axle mount.
Do not bother trying to save 20 bucks by fighting the axle u-bolts. After about 20 minutes of swearing and grunting I took the plasma to them and just bought new ones.
53 year old brake line fittings will break long before they come apart. Be ready to buy new brake line fittings.
I know everyone likes pics but by the time I got home all I wanted was a shower and my temperpidic mattress! I did take some shots durring the proccess and I'll post them up when I get home from work later today..

Now all I need to do is to buy a new front droped axle and the truck will have the stance I'm looking for. Also set of new shocks is in order.
PS: The tires I went with are Firestone Firehawk Iindy 500s with raised white letters. And yes they look as good as I hoped they would.

[Indian113]

Pictures would be nice!!!!!

[Dan in Pasadena]

Fredo - You just jumped in, huh? lol. I REALLY want to see how it came out and what your stance looks like? You were able to reuse the stock pads off the rearend? It has always seemed to me that you'd almost have to destroy them to get them off. So I've wondered where to buy or how to make replacements.

Hey, sorry to throw something at you after the fact but I happened to find this very well done research on the board the other night when researching C notches, have you seen/read IT:


http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=457037

[FFredo]

Hi Dan, yeah the pads are pretty much toast once you get them cut out. I didn't even try to save them I just got at them making sure I did not damage the axle housing. I'm using 2X2@ 3/16 wall square tubing for the new pads.

Yes I've seen that information before. Sure the frame I modified may someday fail if I or a future owner forgets thats it's a 53 year old truck and not a prerunner for the Baja 1000. Taking big jumps will probably hurt my work. I don't see me ever having to take a jump like that though. It reminds me of a time a guy asked me if I ever had both wheels of my Harley off the ground? The answer was I sure have, but it wasn't on purpose. I had to replace the frame when I got out of the hospital by the way..

I think that tried and true modifications are fine for every day driving and use. Metal bends, metal will twist. I think a good job of boxing the frame will sufice. I hope I'm right!!

[Dan in Pasadena]

Oh, I think you are. I'd have no problem with a quality C notch done by a welder I trusted. Now, if it were the truck were to carry my 4000 lb Lance 1181 camper while towing my 22' boat as my '08 dually does, THEN I'd be terrified of doing a C notch on it. FOr runs to the Home Depot to pickup a couple of flats of flowers or to move a sofa - BOTH jobs I doubt I'll ever even do in my '55, I wouldn't give the C notch a second thought. I only offered the link as I thought you said you're making yours a flat bed and I thoughtthat meant you were planning to do heavier work.

[FFredo]

Ahh I see, the flatbed reasoning is two fold. One, since it is different it pisses off the purist I hang out with and that makes me smile.Two it will make acting as a chase truck on motorcycle and hot rod runs a lot easier to load off load. The fact that it looks great (in my opinion) is just a bonus..
The heaviest item I'll haul is one of my bikes. Hopefuly that won't happen too offten.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Fredo, There's amn old guy (yes, older than US!) up here in the Pasadena, Monrovia area that has a really really nice driver level AD flat bed. He showed me pic's of it when he bought it I think in the late 70's and it was a dog. He paid like $50 for it. Now it is so damned nice. It has billet rims - not my faves but obviously he sprung forthem when they were the rage and keeps them nicely polishes up. He built his own bed, its painted a mettallic steel gray, lowered, runs a 350/350 and is trimmed out nice. If I get a chance to snap a pic I'll post it for you. You oughta start and all Task Force Flat Bed thread; if none already exists. I keep thining of that kick ass dually flatbed at the beginning of Fast and Furious II when I think of what your truck will eventually look like.

P.S. Its always a plus when you get to passively piss off a purist on almost anything!

[mr48chev]

It's not official until you post the photos Sounds like you had a full day of it though.

[FFredo]

Here's a few pics guys.
1: Buddy jimmy forming the boxes by hand, can you say old school?



2: mocked in place before tacking welding in



3: The Plasma cutter I want one!!!



4: Welded in and waiting for material to box in the frame section



5 Tires and stance, wheels are 97-2000 Jimmy 15X8 semi ralleys:



6: Full view, you can see I need to bring the front down about 2 inches.



Just need to put a cpl of bucks together and order up a drop axle to level out the truck.
First I'll buy the material to build the bed. Should be done except for final body and paint in about a month...At least that's the dream in my head.

[Old School Kid]

super tough! subscribed....

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by FFredo

... Full view, you can see I need to bring the front down about 2 inches.

Nah....just tell everyone you're going for the gasser look

Seriously, did you think about trying out removing a couple leafs? Its free except for some labor and if you use teflon between the leafs I hear the ride smooths out quite a bit. If it works out it saves you about $400+

[Indian113]

Nice Job-Thanks for the pictures! I like what you did

[FFredo]

Gasser, HA! that's what the wife calls me when I make my famous refried beans.
For the fast and semi easy I will probably remove a cpl of leafs "till I'm able to fund a drop axle.
Now if some one would just buy some of the parts I have for sale..cough *hint* cough

[Coupeguy2001]

Just because, I would buy mono leaf springs and re-use your old axle. The factory springs are 50 years old, and the axle is forged. Springs wear out, and axles don't.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Everything I've read is do NOT buy a monoleaf. They (like ALL leaf springs) are subject to breakage. Break it and you've got zero keeping you from bottoming out. If that happens at speed? You're in BIG trouble...and so is everyone around you.

Fredo, Do you know if a (for example) 3" drop axle equates to exactly 3" of drop after installation?

I also wonder if I did a flip in the rear or removed leafs and then lowered the front to be level or a slight rake - either by a drop axle or removing leafs - how low can you go in front without having rubbing issues with the tire to fender on turns, dips?

[meter swinger]

Sids droped axles has a pretty good reputation on the H.A.M.B. And all the nessasary parts. IIRC he can also narrow it slightly. Im running 255 60 r16 on mine on 4x4 rallyes so i cant do anything other than pull a couple leafs and ill be close to rubbing. The original skinny rims would work great. And ditto on the monoleafs.can you imagine snapping a leaf on a pot hole and going for a ride...scary.
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[63 & 64 Bowties]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Everything I've read is do NOT buy a monoleaf. They (like ALL leaf springs) are subject to breakage. Break it and you've got zero keeping you from bottoming out. If that happens at speed? You're in BIG trouble...and so is everyone around you.

Hey Dan, I hesitate to even mention this because I don't really have an opinion one way or the other on this subject. But, I wonder if you're thinking of steel or composite mono-leafs? I don't know the percentage (I suppose a Google search would tell) but I'd say at least 50% of the tractor-trailers on the road today use Mono-leaf suspensions, more on trailers. BUT most are composite.
Even on Eaton's website (Eaton sells steel multi leaf springs) they admit: "The composite mono-leaf spring is a completely different animal in its composition and it works. It is extremely rare for composite springs to suffer catastrophic failures."
Like I said, don't mean to start a debate on a subject that I know little about and don't really have an opinion on. Just throwing that out there. I only mention it because I drove over-the-road tractor trailer for several years and I traveled many miles at 80,000 lbs on composite mono-leaf springs and I don't remember ever hearing of a failure.

[Dan in Pasadena]

[QUOTE=63 & 64 Bowties;4918431]....I don't mean to start a debate on a subject ...[/QUOTEn

And I didn't mean to start one either. Maybe I stated my opinion too strongly.

If someone wants to use a mono leaf, by all means go ahead. Maybe its because I've gotten older or something but I'll pass since lowering multipacks are readily available and for the same money; I'll go that way. For me personally, I'd have greater peace of mind.

[FFredo]

Dan, I'm not sure if a 3 inch droped axle will give exactly 3 inches of over all drop. I'm guessing it will be pretty close. I Need to get my truck where I want it to sit and measure. That way when I call Sids I can tell them what I'm looking for and hope they can advise me on the best route to take.

I've also heard (and it makes sense) that a mono leaf can be a real big issue if you break one. I'm definately not willing to risk it.
I'd like to see what happens when I remove a cpl of leafs from my stock front packs. However I will still eventualy go with one of Sids droped axles. He does have a great rep and everything I've heard is good about his products and workmanship.
I'm going to call and ask a few basic questions as soon as I'm ready to pull the trigger on the purchase.
Here's a link for information.

http://www.droppedaxles.com/CHEVY_AXLES.html

[DPowell]

I was told the same thing about mono leaf springs by someone that sells multi leaf springs. What difference would it make if you broke a mono or the main leaf of a multi? The result is going to be the same either way. There were alot of Camaros built back in the day with mono leaf springs in the rear.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by DPowell

...What difference would it make if you broke a mono or the main leaf of a multi? The result is going to be the same either way.

It would most definitely NOT be the same. With a multipack of leaf springs the leafs are all tied together. Frequently a leaf will break and you can't tell until you go look for the break. With a monoleaf when the leaf breaks you have NO suspension. The axle/rim/tire instantly travel up as far as they can particulalrly if you don't have anti sway bars, etc. The only thing holding it is the shock absorber and that's not much if you're traveling at speed. The forward momentum of the vehicle will cause the tire/rim/axle to pivot rearward til they hit the wheelwell and if you were going fast enough when the failure happens the vehicle might "climb" up over the axle. This is a total loss of control. If at speed, I don't want to be anywhere around you.

Originally Posted by DPowell

...There were alot of Camaros built back in the day with mono leaf springs in the rear.

Very true and you'll note they haven't made a car with a monoleaf in what? 30 plus years? You think they WOULD'NT save the production costs if a monoleaf had proven itself safe?

Regardless, do what you're comfortable with and chances are nothing will happen. I'm fairly clear about that. The problem is the break IS going to happen to someone and that someone is not going to be me.

[Coupeguy2001]

all 62-67 novas as well. When I broke a rear spring, my traction bars held the rear end in place. Without them, the rear would have shifted.
But, when the main leaf broke, it was 52 years old. New springs have better metalurgy, and have probably a million and a half cycles longer lifespan than the original springs. Plus, the monoleaf spring is almost double the thickness of the original main leaf.
So based on that, around 2065, you can change the front monoleafs just before they break.

[FFredo]

A quick update:
I was able to get one side of my new C-Notch boxed in yesterday. I rough cut the boxing plate to size and shape using my buddy's plasma cutter. Did I meantion I want a plasma cutter real bad?
After I cut it to the basic shape I used my 4 1/2" angle grinder with 40 grit flap wheel to clean/shape it to a tight fit. That was pretty labor intensive since I was using the bed of the truck as my work bench since my garage is full of my leather business gear and materials. Not to mention a cpl of harleys in various states of build. Once I was done with that I made sure my frame had not sagged and placed the rear section on jack stands to hold it where I wanted it. I then tacked the plate into place and dbl checked to make sure nothing had moved. It took a while for me to completely weld it in since I was using my smaller Hobart handler 135. Still the hobart did it's job. I did have to go back and grind out a few sections of weld and redo them though.

Also I spoke with Sid http://www.droppedaxles.com/ about my options for lowering the front of my truck
Let me tell you that Sid is a great guy! He put up with my ignorance and was happy to explain every aspect of properly measuring for a axle.
BTW Dan, yes a 3 inch droped axle will give you exactly 3 inches of drop!!
We talked about needed changes to steering linkage and all of the components that need attention when considering this modification. Unfortunately by the time we finished my lesson in droped axles I knew that that option is out of the restrictions of my budget at this time. I asked Sid about removing leafs, he explained the pros and cons and most importantly the safety issues involved. He told me that it can be done as long as you take everything into account. Things like old leafs will lower your truck more then you thought, shock replacement and so on.
So it looks like that is the route I'll take for now, it's unfortunate but it will allow me to continue on with the build while maintaing safety and functionality of my 59.
THANK YOU SID, you're a stand up guy..

[Kabwe]

Plasma cutters are cool. I want one real bad also.lol

Looking good man post pics when you can.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Thanks Fredo for the update. Yeah, I kinda figured the drop axle was a lot more than the $400 he quotes once all the related and necesary upgrades go along with it. I am assuming 2x maybe....2.5x? If you don't mind, drop me a PM wih the price as I am really considering doing this.

I don't suppose a plasma cutter ever becomes available on Craigslist?

P.S. As I told you before, I have a Hobart Handler 140 that I don't know how to use but I'm getting close to having to learn as I need to patch some small (oh please, oh please!) rust holes and some speakers holes in my doors. It never occurred to me it might be big enough to weld in a C notch - Not that I know how to weld to use it! I plan on intentionally drilling various size holes in a crappy spare door just to see how good/bad I can patch them. Simple question though, what machine settings should I use for our gauge sheet metal? I plan on .023 wire and 75/25 gas unless someone tells me I have that wrong.