Wife Caught Me Cheating With A Hooker

[SSplaytoy]

Now that I have some of your attention, let me start by saying awesome forum and lots of great info. I've been lurking around and reading trying to solve some issues I've had.

As for the thread title, I am not married, nor have I ever paid for a hooker. But I do have a problem just as serious IMO with the "Chevrillac". It's a 72 C10 with Dana 60 & 70 diffs, divorced NP205 tcase, and a 68 472 caddy motor with a built turbo 400 behind it. Truck sits on 44" boggers, is streetable since I rewired everything to work, but now just sits. It did drive just fine, but after I parked it to replace the flexplate and add a system to it, she won't fire up. Has the old Msd 6420 6al, Msd 8680 TCU which I bypassed when I no longer had spark, and a Mallory HEI dizzy. I replaced the coil and now have spark without the TCU and the freshly rebuilt Holley Qjet is giving me fuel, but she still doesn't fire up. I have set cyl 1 at TDC on the compression stroke and redone all the wires and plugs, still wont run. All I get is the sound like she wants to fire barely and a bit of "poofing" back through the carb, not a backfire.

The truck ran perfect and now doesnt for some unknown reason that keeps escaping me. I hope some of you guys here can give me some insight to get this thing running again.

Sorry for the long post guys, but I'll make it up with some pics later.

TIA,
Justin
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[dbstepside]

you probaly checked it but on a truck i had around 13 years ago i had similar case and the rotor button was corroded over. it would get spark checking (the old screwdriver test) but wouldn't start. changed and away i went. good luck and btw i figured you were gonna have a header question with that title.

[SSplaytoy]

When I replaced the coil, I installed the new carbon brush with it. The rotor looked fine, so do the points under the cap. The magnetic pickup test worked for spark, and I believe it should run whether the vacuum advance works or not, but I'm pretty sure it does.
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[Crabass]

Sometimes the spark can go places it's not supposed to, in ways that can be really hard to detect. Cracks or carbon tracks in insulator materials of the distributor, coil, or other components can divert the spark to ground. While a helper cranks the engine touch your tongue .......JUST KIDDING!!
Actually, the first test I do any time I suspect ignition issues is what I call the "dark test"-----run the vehicle, or crank it, at night or in a dark garage, with the distributor cap on and off. If there is wayward spark you will almost certainly see it. Always worked for me. I've know guys that bought all new sensors (efi), new carbs, etc, when all they needed was plug wires. Just keep in mind that parts that look, and even are new can be causing the problem.

[SSplaytoy]

I've been numbed out before catching a spark, on accident of course. I'd rather stick a fork in a light socket any day. I did crank it over a few times minus a few plug wires on both banks and did see spark a few nights ago. I have turned it over minus cap and coil to see the direction of the rotor and didnt notice anything unusual. I've rewired the entire system over and over to be sure because I just dont see how one moment it worked perfectly, and nothing the next. I guess I could try a new cap, and maybe a new dizzy too, but I don't have all that much extra to shell out. Plus it would be my luck, it still wouldn't start.
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[Crabass]

So, with the timing box out of the circuit you are getting a strong, consistent spark? If you have that plus fuel, with that "poofing" kinda makes me think timing issue.
In your first post you mentioned that you replaced the flex plate and "add"-ed a "system". What system was that? You also state that "one moment it worked perfectly, and nothing the next"-----do you mean that it was running before the replacements, and has not run since you got it back together? Was the MSD/Mallory system in place and running okay before the truck got parked? Sorry, just trying to get it aligned correctly with the few remaining brain cells I still have.
On a less happy note, I have had a couple of electronic ignitions crap out ------ not all at once ------first started running a little rough, got worse and worse to the point of really hard starting/spitting/popping, to just plain dead ----- FWIW.

[SSplaytoy]

The spark is strong and consistent when jumping the wires from the magnetic pickup per MSD's test instructions. Everything was working and running fine prior. The MSD/Mallory setup was already installed on the truck. I replaced the flexplate because it was worn and had a missing tooth because the previous owner thought it was a mid 70s caddy 500 motor and had the wrong starter on it. Also replaced the starter with a Powermaster, so everything cranks over fine and smooth now. The "system" I added includes a Sony HU, the stock Bose speakers from my SS, and a 12" woofer I have downfiring under the seat powered by an old Rockford 600 amp. I even completely disconnected the system to see if that was the problem and it still didnt fire up. I have checked all grounds, fuses, connections, inputs, and outputs, electrically speaking, and all checks to be fine. When it first wouldn't fire, I tried a new digital 6al and got the same results, so that got returned. I'm thinking of loosening the distributor and turning it a bit both ways to see if it'll fire up. Just doesn't make sense to if it hasn't moved and ran fine before. I thought about the timing chain jumping, but seeing as the crank bolt has been replaced, front cover appears to have been off at some point, and the truck has been run through mud, the timing set has already been replaced. And I doubt it would have jumped with barely any throttle into the driveway. Suppose I could pull both valve covers and check/ reset all valve lash to know for sure.

I've messed around with all kinds of motors, mostly diesels and EFI. These old school setups are incredibly easy to wire and seem practically idiot-proof, I just don't have tons of experience with them. I'm sure there's tricks I don't know about, but when I learn them, hopefully the Chevrillac will live again.
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[stich626]

have you tried pour'n a little gas down the carb and crank..

[SSplaytoy]

Yep, at first til fuel pumped from the carb when I put it back on. Tried a shot or two of ether, though its against my religion. I only use ether on smaller diesels or a rig. She still didnt fire up and you can smell the raw fuel from the exhaust.
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BTW Stich, nice title for a build lol

[stich626]

are the plug just wet.. with fuel.. let them air dry for a day, or hit them and the cyl with compressed air,

[SSplaytoy]

Plugs aren't soaked and they barely have any color because the motor hasn't ran

[umwtnt]

When I reach this point on a job I always back off, relax and then start from the beginning. #1 cylinder TDC, check rotor position to the cap, Firing order correct with plug wires, visually look down the carburetor and operate the throttle to assure I am getting fuel. Then make timing adjustments as the engine is spun over to get her running. I have been whupped more times then I care to brag about over the basics. Good luck.

[Crabass]

Justin--
Man, this is getting to be a tough one, and sounds like you've pretty much covered the likely suspects. How long was the truck parked (in that warm, moist, salty SE Florida air)? Grasping at straws now ------ I know you've checked all your connections for clean and tight ------ what about your grounds (cab to frame, alternator, engine to frame, etc.)?
Just my sense of things, but seems if the distributor timing was off enough to keep it from running you should be getting significant fireworks (backfire). But I'm just shadetree and starting to feel like this is beyond my pay grade. Wish I were closer, my skills may not be so impressive but I have been damn lucky an awful lot at this kind of thing, and as the saying goes, I'd rather be lucky than good.
Describe in more detail the MSD test routine ------ where do you get the good spark when doing that jumper thing (sorry, never done this procedure myself)? I would recommend having a really close look at that distributor cap, or maybe try a new one. Moisture can form under those things when they sit for a while, and once arcing takes place due to the wet underside, tracks can form that will draw the spark to ground, and electricity will always take the path of least resistance (the air gaps from rotor to cap and across the plugs are relatively high resistance). And if the rotor has much use on it at all I'd spring for a new one of those as well. Seen those go bad grounding the spark to the distributor shaft through a tiny bad spot in the dielectric of the rotor body where it could never be seen, only found by replacement.

[SSplaytoy]

About the only thing I havent done is loosen up the distributor to try and retard/advance the timing. The rotor isnt brand new shiny or anything but there aren't any streaks or carbon marks on top or underneath it. As for the cap, the points are a bit dark and dull, but no scratches, streaks, or burns under it. No moisture from salty sea air, but this is a mud truck and from when I took it apart to start diagnosing this problem, it had its share of crap in there. It ran fine as a mudder, but I still havent used it as one yet :sigh: (Had to make it streetable first)

As for the MSD testing, hookup in my setup currently without TCU is as follows:
Heavy red and black direct to battery pos and neg
Thin red switched from original coil pos to 6al
Orange and black from 6al to pos and neg of dizzy
Mag pickup from dizzy to 6al
Dizzy has GM module bypassed (4 pin)

To test this setup, find where the rotor is pointing and remove the plug wire, placing the end close to a ground, chassis or block works. With dizzy back together and coil wired, disconnect mag pickup from dizzy, turn the ign on, jump the purple and violet wires and a spark should occur when the circuit is broken.

I've got the wiring to a tee for both setups completely memorized. All connects are heat shrinked butt connected for now. Soldering over and over for testing or having to remove modules is too time consuming. Since it is a mud truck, the modules have been located under the dash behind the glove box and all the wiring in the engine bay I have in heater hose. Made sure wires don't cross and touch that aren't supposed to also.

I appreciate all the help, input, and reassurance from you guys. If you were closer, you'd be more than welcome to come over and enjoy some cold frosty beverages. I'm trying to dot all the i's and cross the t's before I go buying more parts though. Its wrecking my brain to think it was running fine, and for no appearent reason the TCU and coil went bad, and possibly the dizzy too. It makes me think it's really something else, but how and why?
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Edit: I also used dielectric grease on the rubber bushing that surrounds the pickup brush in the distributor and the truck has only been parked going on three weeks now

[SSplaytoy]

Loosened up the dizzy and tried starting it while turning it a bit in both directions. Still nothing. I returned it to its original position, checked the notch on the damper and its about and inch or so before the marker. I'm guessing this would be the 5* the motor calls for with cyl 1 at TDC.

Anyone have anymore input or ideas? Or should I just go get a new distributor and cross my fingers it works?

[Keith Seymore]

Re: Thread title -

Reminds me of the time I took my garden tractor into the Redi-Strip place to have it cleaned up.

My wife said "...what did you guys do today?"

I said "...we got loaded and went to see the strippers".