70 C-20 4x4 Suburban Father/Son project

[1leglance]

Well it has been awhile since I posted around here mainly cuz my granddad's 72 Chevy C-10 longbed has been sitting waiting on my 13yr old son to get closer to driving age.
So since we as a family love to go out and play in the dirt I thought I would be fun to get something we can work on that will build his skills for owning/driving the pickup.
Here is my Black Friday Special, a 1970 C-20 4x4 Suburban with a 350 and a few interesting options.


The original owner was a gentleman who enjoyed desert prospecting and the rig reflects his needs/likes...and personally while I will of course make changes it is still pretty cool see how he set it up.
Part of his setup included being able to handle some heavy equipment. This must have made it alot easier.


Another cool bit of kit was this front bumper setup that he could attach something serious to.


The brake controler will be cool if it still works, I will be trying it out this week.


And for my audio enjoyment I get a functioning 8 track and a working Radio Shack CB, along with an old school antenna setup.



I won't know if they roof mount AC works until I convert it to R134 but it seems all there, plus I got an extra compressor setup out of the deal!


The shag carpet will go but at least it looks to have protected the orginal vinyl flooring which should look after I clean it up. And the seats will be one of the first things that gets changed out. I will be searching for 4 matching bucket seats this week....Anyone want an original back seat & third row seat?



I am not sure why the original owner installed 2 hitch setups but the lower one is getting cut off in the next day or two.


Also I gotta say installing Ford mirrors on a Chevy will get you strung up in some parts of the country but even I gotta say that 2 sets of mirrors is too much. I will more than likely take off both of these and install something factory.


I will post up more pics tomorrow as I clean up the underside, engine and such.
All thoughts welcome...and if anyone knows where I can source a factory rear view mirror and side mirrors I am listening.

[vectorit]

Welcome back, and congratulations on a cool 4x4 burb!

I personally love the 4x4 burbs!

Looks like a lot of superficial stuff that can be easily clean up or removed, but that rear hoist rigging may be a bit of a challenge to remove. Since the wood floor has most likely been chopped up to facilitate that hoist, and it looks like a welded piece of metal the hook attaches to on the fender well.

Ditch the Ford mirrors, and keep the old style ones for a while at least and the outside appearance will clean up dramatically I'm sure.

Looking forward to more pics of your archeological digs and discoveries!

[1leglance]

Here are some fun numbers I found from decoding the VIN
Cost new $4190 base price
Curb Wgt 4343lb
GVW 7000
Wheelbase 127in
Only 541 3/4t 4x4 Suburbans built that year
Build date March 1970
Built in Fremont California which became the NUUMI Toyota plant which became the Telsa Motors....see it has direct connections to the eco rides

[vectorit]

Yep, pretty much the same numbers and build location as my burb but cut the production number in half or more for my burb.

[briank]

Your burb owner must have been related to mine because the old guy put the same Ford mirrors on my '68 Burb so hence extra holes on the door. Nice looking burb though.

[ThreeQtr]

Nice burb!
More likely the original owner of your suburban was related to the original owner of this one.
http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=495438

[1leglance]

Well with the help of my brother in law it was time to do a little deconstruction and return to original on the old burb.

I put Alex to work unbolting stuff while I started in on a weird starting issue I had....don't we all hate electrical gremlins?


He did a great job of pulling out one of those mile wide, multi-pane rear view mirrors and installing this pretty puppy...and I figured out it was my neutral safety switch that was bad...at least dropping the column on these things isn't tooo bad. Oh and I gotta say having Vintage Ford & Chevy/Socal so close to my house is nice for me and bad for my bank account


Alex got back to the front end and just kept pulling pounds and pounds of steel off of it. My younger son is learning blacksmithing and really wants all this metal. I am thinking of buying a welder so he & I can learn to make all the bits we will want on this rig.


I am telling you the front of the rig was 1in taller after Alex was done shedding this stuff off the rig...I was not having fun under the dash.


Buy the time I had the switch on the column replaced he had already gotten rid of both side mirrors and put these originals one...much better.


This is what we left on for frontal protection for now...I like it.


The windshield dude were finishing up as Alex & I started in on the nasty shag removal and figuring out how to get the big bad boom arm out.


The original vinyl flooring isn't too bad and will work till I gut the inside for sound deadening & insulation.



Now this is more like it and should give me a solid platform to start planning the inside buildout.

[mosesburb]

Keep the orange shag man!! It's not retro, it's original!! Yeah, you definitely got some strange stuff on that rig. Nice looking rig though!! Looks straight and complete which is a big bonus as Sub parts can be fun to find at times. Does it have disc brakes in front?? What do you think that apparatus on the front was used for??

I am interested in the rear-most (3rd row) seat. Let me know what you want for it and where you are at. Also, let me know if you need anything for your Sub as I have developed an inventory of some Sub-only parts here and if I can help you out, just let me know.

[grayharville]

cool project, I just read your wheeling thread.

It reminds me of the DED (dirt every day) adventures that Rick Pewe writes about in 4wheel & offroad mag. They usually buy an old derelict jeep, get it running, and drive it halfway across the country or something of that nature. I'd love to do something like that!

[1leglance]

I have a brown 3rd row seat that is all yours...matter of fact you can have the second row setup also as I am going to 4 bucket seats.
And I would very much like to pick over your pile and see what you want for some bits.
I will take some pics of the 2nd & 3rd row seats tomorrow and post them for you.
Oh and I am running drum brakes all around.
Did the back way to Crown King Sat and even in the rain/snow the drums did fine so while I want to switch over to 4 wheel disc (hate working on drum brakes) I am not in a hurry.

I will take some underside pics tomorrow after I power wash the mud off so I can start picking brains on what I should work on.

[1leglance]

Got some more work done over the weekend and it was very educational for my son...dirty but educational

First of all let me say that one of my favorite thing about older vehicles is that not only can you reach everything but you can also take things part & put them back together.
As an example my turn signal switch was sticking and felt "gummy", so we got in there and gave it all a good cleaning, some dielectric grease and all is better now. Great time showing how contacts works and how you track electrical problems.


Then is was time to talk about how heat kills (just like it does a good cigar....something he & I have talked about before ....
So we added a water temp gauge with real numbers, an oil temp gauge & trans temp. The desert southwest getting stupid hot and I like to know when things are starting to cook. Now I have to be honest and say that we didn't install the temp senders for the oil & trans yet as that requires dropping the pans. But don't worry that will happen soon.


Since we had the steering apart I went ahead and stole the pretty new steering wheel off the 72 Chevy Truck that will be his in a few years....needless to say he wasn't happy about that but my rig runs and he can't drive yet...and I am paying for both so I win


Plenty more to come...right now I am shopping for a used MIG setup as there is enough welding projects to do to make it worth it. Unless anyone wants to loan me a setup for a while.
Gotta make an aux battery tray, bucket seat frames for the front & back, rear bumper and some other goodies

[1leglance]

Had a good time working with my son while we changed out the Edelbrock carb that was on the rig


Over to this craigslist Holley Off Road Avenger


The change over gave me a change to hook up a vacuum gauge and teach about how an engine makes vacuum & boost through the 4 stroke cycle and then to use the timing light to talk more about the 4 stroke cycle.

It is great how on these older engines you can actually see & understand how things work..
Of course since he is part of the youtube gen set I included some cool old movies
1935 movie on gasoline
http://www.archive.org/details/DowntheG1935

1937 Free Air (how air & fuel mix)
http://www.archive.org/details/FreeAir1937

[BLUE THUNDER]

Nice project dude. Cant wait to see more progress.

[1leglance]

Plenty more little stuff to come plus an epic story of breakdown & repair that consumed 24 long hours in Yuma
But for now I thought you guys would get a kick out of my new plate that honors my son who is almost completed his Eagle Scout rank and Chevy's safety mindset in 1970


And I added some tall, skinny BFG Muds 255/85/16's...I like'em

[Average Joe]

Great project. Love the new shoes!

[72ArizonaBurb]

Nice project. I enjoyed the video's you posted. This will be a great father and son project.

[1leglance]

I am a bit behind on updates due to family, work and all that getting in the way but I will now catch up on the latest happenings...

And this part is called "Father gets to hang out in Yuma", or "I love old rigs because I can actually fix them"

So a fellow on the 67-72chevytrucks.com forum from San Diego posted up that he was tearing down a old burb to make a crew cab truck, and since Tom is such a cool guy he agreed to let me drive from Phoenix and raid a bunch of parts from him.
Roof Rack
Aux tanks
Original GM grill guard
bumper to go with it



And a bunch of little things I didn't get a pic of like 2 Spot lights for the A pillars, hand throttle, manual choke, hand e-brake (remember I am an amputee so the foot one sucks) and other little bits.

Well on the way back from San Diego to Phoenix I notched that the rig was slower to crank over at each gas stop and at Yuma the battery acted too low to crank her over.
Now my first thought as I am looking around the gas station for someone to give me a jump start is that I have been running alot of aux stuff over the last 24hrs like a laptop, ham radio, cell phone and such and maybe I just over did what the original 61amp alt could keep up with.

Well I get a jump start from a very nice older guy and get about 2 miles down the highway (unplugged all the aux power draws) when it dies on the road.
When I pop the hood the battery is hot and hissing...not good.
I remember an O'reilys autoparts just back a bit (ended up being a 2 mile walk) and head back to get a battery so I can get off the highway and figure things out.
A great older guy at the parts place takes a break to give me a ride and I slap the battery in but no go.

Now one thing I really like about older rigs is how simple they are. Air, Fuel, Spark....that is it. I have air, I can see fuel through the clear filter and when I pull a plug and do the "hold it near metal test" using my remote starter switch I see I got no spark.

Now you can see at the back of this pic that I have a Mallory distributor and what you can't see is the big red Mallory box on the inner fender well.


Ok so now I call a new buddy Nick from the chevy forum (and now he is here on expo) on a Sunday afternoon to pick his brain. We agree it must be that the external voltage reg went out which let the alt fry the electronic ign parts.

So now it is getting dark and I have 45min to get back 2 miles to O'rielys...as I (remember I am the 1 legged guy) start jogging down the frontage road I see a couple in a nice CJ5 jeep and wave them down, quick explanation to them and we are zooming off to get parts.

I buy a stock HEI setup, wires and figure I will drop in the distrib, get off the highway and grab a hotel for the night in order to replace the alt the next day.
The jeep owner Randy was cool enough to grab his Chevy 4x4 and strap tow me through the median and back to his house (less than 2 miles) AND give me access to his garage to do the repairs that night. Super cool Yuma Jeep owner!

After dropping in the distrib, changing the wires and a bit of tuning by ear I was running! And managed to get 2 miles back down the highway to the Micro-tel Hotel next to O'riely's.
Pizza, shower and checking the chevy forum for info on the alt change out rounded out my evening.

[1leglance]

The next morning I hit the O'riely's and once again was happy to own a Chevy 350 as they are pretty much the most common motor out there.

I ditched the original burnt up 61amp alt for a replacement which they actually had in stock.


Put in another external voltage reg....I had read about the alternator upgrade but since they had the original parts in stock I wanted to just get back on the road.


Then since had drained the battery tuning/starting the rig I ask them to give it a top off charge. Of course this meant I had more time to kill so I replaced the belts...hey I was in there anyway doing the alt.


And then figured why not replace the spark plugs. I took out the AC 44TS and went with the 45TS I had read about on the forum...I think I am still a bit off on plugs. The nice thing was no plug looked oil fouled which makes me think the story about this being a recent crate motor is true. I also had the pleasure of remembering an old trick for reaching the back plugs which can be a pain. Just pull the PVC hose and use that.


Now my rig has no lift but I am running 33in tires and I ain't that tall. So I grabbed my Pelican tool case and put it to use. And this is why as much as I love the look of the Alum expedition cases I will more than likely stick to my Pelicans.


The truck ran great coming home, has run great since. I returned the alt & extern volt reg and upgraded to a 94amp alt from a trans am and all seems well in the world.
Well I still need to jet down the Holley and change plug temps as I think I am too rich.

I am looking forward to getting more work done soon...big thanks to Tom for the parts which my son was super jazzed to see. Of the big stuff what we don't use will become welding practice and go into other parts. The spot lights are going to be great!

[gcburdic]

Awesome Lance....glad you got the help to get you going again and were able to get some parts from Tom!!!

[1leglance]

The donor is home...6.2L diesel donor that is...and with an aftermarket turbo already installed!

Huge thanks to one of the Copper State Cruiser guys Brian for the use of his truck & trailer to safely get this rig to my house.


I need to go through it and make sure what year it is, what is missing and what is there, get it running and then get the engine/turbo out and to the diesel shop my wife is the office manager for so they can go through it all (including injector pump & injectors)


But because no story would be as fun with out a bit of drama...the previous owner had pulled the good back axle for his other rig. However he was cool enough to put something together to make this one a roller...and the back tires tried to roll right out of the axle like a cartoon as we loaded it up.
That meant to get it off the trailer we needed to push things a bit more toward center. However things didn't want to fit together and we quickly learned why


And since this is a Father/Son project my son got to get the dirty, greasy one and get all the old junk out of the way so we could shove the axle shafts back in. However crafty kid that he is, it only took 2 seconds for him to ask me if he could have all the broken bits to forge/weld/scuplt something cool. How do you say no to that? Watch for a yard creature soon


Tomorrow I will get up and look it over more closely by the light of day, hit is with degreaser & the power washer. Then start working on figuring out what I can use and not on the 70 burb...of course we will part out what we can to get some money back and scrap the rest.

Also I need to make some phone calls and do some reading about keeping the 700r4 that is behind this engine in place for the sake of the overdrive. As much as I love playing in the dirt I am not a hard core wheeler but there are alot of highway miles to get to the cool places.

[jbclassix]

that truck was a score! funny story, my buddy just texted me a picture of the 6.2L diesel burb he drug home today with the same blue and white scheme! His isn't turbo though

[1leglance]

too funny jb..
I was pretty happy to find the aftermarket turbo already on this rig.
Now to get it going and make sure all is well before I go yanking everything apart

[babylonflyer]

Very cool .... ... now has me thinking a 4x4 or car ??

[1leglance]

Hey flyer...
we are a big time outdoors family, any excuse to get out into the dirt and explore/camp/recreate. Also boy scouts has been a big part of our life so having a 4x4 is a no brainer.
And these older rigs are so much fun to work on with my son as he can actually see & understand how things go together and function.

[1leglance]

Well today was a day to clean up and get an idea of what I am facing with this diesel swap.

This is my NP205 transfer case in the 1970 burb and it is one of the best transfer cases I could have. I was told when I bought the rig that the 350cu engine/Turbo400 trans/NP205 transfer case were all new or freshly rebuilt just a few years back.
Looking at the barcodes and stickers I think it is true.


These two are what is currently behind the donor 6.2 diesel and part of me would like to keep them as overdrive would be nice for all the highway driving we do getting to & from the cool dirt tracks.
NPsomething transfer case & 700r4 overdrive trans



So this is the hacked up mess I power washed and looked over. There are far too many wires unconnected, hoses & ports open and more mouse poop that I want to think about.


Someone took the top off the injection pump, I was able to screw it back on but not sure now if everything is there and hooked up right.


I am not too happy with this hose routing. I will be looking into a better way to do things when I swap the engine over.


Did I mention mouse poop?


This side of the engine isn't as hacked up. But there are still some things to take care of.


This is the hydroboost setup that will go into my old burb. Diesels don't make vacuum like a gasser so you get powersteering pump created hydraulic pressure for the brakes. Not sure about that rubber hose on the lines though?


I think this bit is called a CDR or CDL or something like that. But I think I am missing something?



Throttle cable is all busted up. And there is a bracket above the injector pump that is missing something that looks like it would connect down to the injector pump? Anyone know?


Oh and since it was too cold first thing in the morning to powerwash I fired up the plasma cutter to free this factory grill guard from the massive bits of steel someone welded it too long ago.


And while I didn't get pics of the inside of the donor I did attack it with the shop vac. Other than the front seat belts there isn't much I will be using out of the inside. But there was about a 1/2 bale of hay in there and I wanted to see what was under it all in case I can part the rig out for any $$