need more help

[FAT TONY]

Alright so my ticking problem ive decided it has to be the camshaft that has worn out, ether that or my new lifters are taking a really long time to fill with oil. but to the next problem is there any reason why my truck is on for a while then after its been on for some time it starts to misfire and just shuts off on its own?, some times i try saving it by pressing the gas but that just makes it shut off, I press the gas and then that makes it choke because it makes a sound like if the carb is trying to breath. After it turns off it takes a while to get it back running again i have to let it sit there for about ten minutes then try again, or in some times if i take off the vacuum hose it might turn on in some occasions. but i really dont know what it is, i am no professional and this is my first project so any good advice will help

[FAT TONY]

any one?

[allaboutchevelles]

sounds like to me that your carb is loading up and flooding out the plugs. I had the 230 straight 6 with the 1 barrell and I messed with my carb many times and never could get it to run right. I think those carbs are very simple but I bought the rebuild kit from LMC truck and the accelerator pump valve seemed to be cheap and not made right and I think that was causing me problems. I didnt want to spend the money for a new carb so I went with a 350 4 barrell.

[allaboutchevelles]

Also if your camshaft has a lobe worn off then you want get the motor running smooth. My problem with my carb was back firing and wouldnt take the gas and black smoke from tailpipe smelling like raw gas. flooding the plugs out real bad. Its hard to tell what your problem is with out being there. Could be a number of things. or a combination of a few things. I dont know if I helped you or not but that my .02, good luck

[FAT TONY]

Originally Posted by allaboutchevelles

Also if your camshaft has a lobe worn off then you want get the motor running smooth. My problem with my carb was back firing and wouldnt take the gas and black smoke from tailpipe smelling like raw gas. flooding the plugs out real bad. Its hard to tell what your problem is with out being there. Could be a number of things. or a combination of a few things. I dont know if I helped you or not but that my .02, good luck

any thing is helpful, this is my first project so ive been messing around with it got it running a couple months ago but now im stuck seeing as i don't really know much, with mine when i want to turn it on i have to pump the pedal a couple times then turn it an , at first it misfires alot and sounds kinda rough like if some one put gas in a diesel engine or something and when i try to press the gas it just turns off like if it wasn't getting enough air or gas but after a few tries it stays on, and after being on it starts misfiring again and shuts off then i just have to let it sit, should i just replace the camshaft or is there something else i can possibly do, by the way does that harm the engine at all?............ and would a video help at all, I was thinking of making a video tomorrow from the time i turn it on and its misfiring to the time it turns off misfiring maybe that will give you a better idea of how the misfiring sounds and how the crab is acting

[FAT TONY]

when the engine is running it also smells like raw fuel and the inside of the exhaust pipe is filled with black soot haven't seen black smoke though, the spark plugs are black as well

[hopped up]

a video would def be helpfull if you could show whats happening.
Posted via Mobile Device

[rbar]

It kind of sounds like a timing issue, which you could have the same problems if the cam is bad, especially if some of the lobes are worse than others. Perhaps an exhaust lobe is worse than an intake lobe on the cam and fuel gets in but it's not getting out very well. Just making wild guesses, but if you suspect your cam is bad, I would say that would be my first place to fix.

[FAT TONY]

Originally Posted by hopped up

a video would def be helpfull if you could show whats happening.
Posted via Mobile Device

I have the videos its a couple different videos because the camera was messing up i got a couple with my phone to rite now im just waiting for them to upload to youtube, not much detail of whats happening but its still pretty clear of the sounds and whats happening tomorrow i hope to get home from school earlier and make a more detailed video

[Gumby]

sure its not over heating?

[66CHEV]

Hey tony, i may have missed it somewhere in the posts but what size engine and carb is it? I have a 250 l6 and single barrel carb and had similar issues a while back

[FAT TONY]

I want to change the cam but then again im not doing to good with money rite now so im trying to save up money on things that are needed and don't want to buy any thing till i figure out what the problem is i spent $44 on new lifters thinking that would stop the ticking nd now im figuring out its not the lifters, i will post up a video today, and the truck has a 230 l6 with 1 barrel carb and a 3 speed transmission

[FAT TONY]

l6 230 start up and misfire 1964 chevy c10 -...

l6 230 engine on a 64 chevy - YouTube

[rideblue00]

There could be more than one problem going on here. The hard starting could be either be low fuel pump pressure, or air fuel mixture wrong, or wrong ignition timing. I suspect air fuel mixture wrong and timing. You need to get a timing light and check the timing. Does this have a points style distributor? How old is the fuel pump? As far as the ticking lifter is concerned, you need to take the valve cover off and run it to see if all of the rocker arms are moving up and down. An also see if oil is getting up to each rocker arm. I reccomend getting a set of oil deflectors so it doesnt squirt oil all over. Its not gonna be like a fountain, but it can get messy. You can also use the timing light to check each plug wire to see if its firing.Another thing to have is a oil pressure gauge that actually shows the pressure(not just a light like on the dash). I also have a fuel pressure gauge that i can install inline with the rubber hose. Keep us updated!

[FAT TONY]

Originally Posted by rideblue00

There could be more than one problem going on here. The hard starting could be either be low fuel pump pressure, or air fuel mixture wrong, or wrong ignition timing. I suspect air fuel mixture wrong and timing. You need to get a timing light and check the timing. Does this have a points style distributor? How old is the fuel pump? As far as the ticking lifter is concerned, you need to take the valve cover off and run it to see if all of the rocker arms are moving up and down. An also see if oil is getting up to each rocker arm. I reccomend getting a set of oil deflectors so it doesnt squirt oil all over. Its not gonna be like a fountain, but it can get messy. You can also use the timing light to check each plug wire to see if its firing.Another thing to have is a oil pressure gauge that actually shows the pressure(not just a light like on the dash). I also have a fuel pressure gauge that i can install inline with the rubber hose. Keep us updated!

I know for a fact that the air/fuel mixture isnt rite, and the timing i checked it but might have moved it when i was tightening up the distributor is it suppose to go on the A or the O? i think it is a point style and the fuel pump was on there when i bought it,ive done that for a while taking off the valve cover and yes ive made a big mess, i might go to the store nd buy a cheap gauge just for now where did you buy the inline gauge?

[A.T. RockDriller]

Fat Tony,
One thing that could be happening...
The cam lobe that cycles the fuel pump could be flat....or the pump arm could be bent....
fits yer symptoms..
Good luck.

[66CHEV]

not trying to be a smart @$$ but have you checked the oil level for sure. the only reason i asked is because i had a very similar noise. kept checking my oil it read full but the sound still there like to have drove me crazy till i changed the oil and found i was 2 quarts low. apparently the oil dipstick that is in my engine was about 2 inches longer that what was supposed to be and i was getting wrong reading.

btw love the sound your getting from that exhaust is it just a single exhaust straight pipe or what kind of set up??

[FAT TONY]

Originally Posted by 66CHEV

not trying to be a smart @$$ but have you checked the oil level for sure. the only reason i asked is because i had a very similar noise. kept checking my oil it read full but the sound still there like to have drove me crazy till i changed the oil and found i was 2 quarts low. apparently the oil dipstick that is in my engine was about 2 inches longer that what was supposed to be and i was getting wrong reading.

btw love the sound your getting from that exhaust is it just a single exhaust straight pipe or what kind of set up??

im not to sure on that normally when im working on the lifters i think it lost about a quart so i just topped it off with some Lucas oil additive and it reads a little over full but i might give it an oil change in a month or two , and the exhaust pipe its a single pipe but im not really to sure if its even suppose to sound like that, it normally just sounds like that when its not warm yet then once the engine warms up it stopped misfiring and t doesn't sound like that ether, i think that has something to do with the timing , because there was a time when i didn't have the timing gun and i was just doing it by sound and some times it would sound like that ad other it would be pretty quiet

[FAT TONY]

Originally Posted by A.T. RockDriller

Fat Tony,
One thing that could be happening...
The cam lobe that cycles the fuel pump could be flat....or the pump arm could be bent....
fits yer symptoms..
Good luck.

i checked the fuel pump and it looks pretty fine to see if any of the lobes are worn off i would have to take the camshaft out rite?, and to do that i would have to take the engine out?

[A.T. RockDriller]

Originally Posted by FAT TONY

i checked the fuel pump and it looks pretty fine to see if any of the lobes are worn off i would have to take the camshaft out rite?, and to do that i would have to take the engine out?

The cam comes out pretty easy...with the engine still in the truck....ya have to pull the front end of the engine, timing gears, the radiator and maybe the grill....and then the rocker assy.s and lifters. Not a big deal....but I'd check the fuel pump output....both pressure and volume....and brobably the suction side.
You can usually find a fuel pump gauge that also is a vac gauge....Napa sells a good quality tool pretty cheap.
Did you try a stethascope (or a stick)..?
You might be able to dial it in a bit as far as the location of the problem by sound.
All the luck.

[FAT TONY]

Originally Posted by A.T. RockDriller

The cam comes out pretty easy...with the engine still in the truck....ya have to pull the front end of the engine, timing gears, the radiator and maybe the grill....and then the rocker assy.s and lifters. Not a big deal....but I'd check the fuel pump output....both pressure and volume....and brobably the suction side.
You can usually find a fuel pump gauge that also is a vac gauge....Napa sells a good quality tool pretty cheap.
Did you try a stethascope (or a stick)..?
You might be able to dial it in a bit as far as the location of the problem by sound.
All the luck.

I would really like to take a look at the camshaft so this saturday i will probably spend my day doing that, do you know what it is called?, and yes the stethoscope is a good tool but its kinda hard to listen where the noise is coming from directly because as soon as you touch it to the metal you hear every thing that's going on with the engine, by the way is it fairly easy to rebuild a carb i feel that maybe there is something wrong with it and want to try and fix it but i dont want to mess it up even more

[j.kirn]

Well new lifters do not match well to old camshaft, they should be replaced as a match set. check the timing, and put the right carb and breather on it

[FAT TONY]

Originally Posted by j.kirn

Well new lifters do not match well to old camshaft, they should be replaced as a match set. check the timing, and put the right carb and breather on it

yea , at the time i only had about $50 so i could only get the lifters but ill more than likely get the cam this weekend, i will check the timing , and how do you know if it is the right carb?, i have a Rochester mono jet but it doesn't look as simple as they should this one has a couple vacuums and other things that i covered up

[rbar]

You can put new lifters on an old cam, although I would prefer not to, but you can't put a new or different cam with old lifters. You can't even get them out of order if you take the lifters out and put them back in. Now that you have been running those lifters on that other cam I would be concerned about changing just the cam, especially if you have ran it much. Cam lobes are not flat, they are angled to keep the cam worked to the back of the engine. Lifters rotate in their holes. They break in together in the first 30 minutes of 2000 to 2500 rpm, then the cam is considered broke in. The reason for the RPM being soo high is that not enough oil gets to the cam during the break in period at lower RPMs. Running a new cam with used lifters will cause cam failure because the wear, and shape of the wear, on the used lifters will chew up the new cam. In your case I would be concerned that putting a new cam in with the same lifters might be the same as using old lifters on a new cam. You should also use a ZDDP additive when breaking in a new cam. Comp Cams states that since ZDDP has been removed from oil, due to ruining catalytic converters, that camshaft failures have risen dramatically because the ZDDP protects the cam and lifters from wear, especially during break in. Perhaps, maybe, possibly, you would be OK using those lifters again, but I wouldn't ever consider it. Just my 4 cents.

[FAT TONY]

Originally Posted by rbar

You can put new lifters on an old cam, although I would prefer not to, but you can't put a new or different cam with old lifters. You can't even get them out of order if you take the lifters out and put them back in. Now that you have been running those lifters on that other cam I would be concerned about changing just the cam, especially if you have ran it much. Cam lobes are not flat, they are angled to keep the cam worked to the back of the engine. Lifters rotate in their holes. They break in together in the first 30 minutes of 2000 to 2500 rpm, then the cam is considered broke in. The reason for the RPM being soo high is that not enough oil gets to the cam during the break in period at lower RPMs. Running a new cam with used lifters will cause cam failure because the wear, and shape of the wear, on the used lifters will chew up the new cam. In your case I would be concerned that putting a new cam in with the same lifters might be the same as using old lifters on a new cam. You should also use a ZDDP additive when breaking in a new cam. Comp Cams states that since ZDDP has been removed from oil, due to ruining catalytic converters, that camshaft failures have risen dramatically because the ZDDP protects the cam and lifters from wear, especially during break in. Perhaps, maybe, possibly, you would be OK using those lifters again, but I wouldn't ever consider it. Just my 4 cents.

well i haven't taken it on the street since it got the new lifters so there shouldn't be much wear on them but yes the engine has been running , is it for sure that it will cause cam failure or is there a good possibility that it might still work, when i took out the old lifters they didn't look bad but it kind of looked like the bottom had expanded a little which also made it pretty hard to take out, and is there a way to check for the wear on the lifters?