Hard Lines 101

[BB72CHEVKT]

Due to the effects of ethanol on fuel lines I am wanting to run a hard line from the pump to the carb. I do not get the whole AN thing probably because I have not taken the time to learn the conversion, etc. I am thinking of buying some aluminum line to try to learn with and then possibly replacing it later or with stainless. What tools and parts are recommended to run hard line from the stock SBC pump to an Edelbrock 600? What size line is best for a stock set up? How big of a learning curve is there in learning to flare the fuel line? Any recommendations or setup? Thanks KT.

[Toms1968]

Funny you bring this up. I am trying to run the hard line as well. I spent 2 hours tonight, wasted 3 lenths of hard tubing and still have no lines. I am running a Holley 650 Double Pumper, on a SBC. I bought the fuel rail and I'm trying to bend 3/8 line with a cheap bender. Tomorrow I'll be buying a Quality bender and starting over. I will be following this thread very closely, so I'm hoping others chime in with some usefull advice. Good luck.

[BB72CHEVKT]

I have always just modified the stock hard line with some rubber line and called it good but I see posts all the time where people are knocking someone running something other than hard line. I am surprised at the lack of response.

[67chevemall]

My new holley carb came with rubber hoses to connect the two bowls to the hardline at the front of the engine. I just used them but it is on the list to replace them with steel ones.
I have a old tool to flare the lines, dope tape, and a few fittings. to bend the lines I heat them on the fire and bend over a fat pipe by hand.

I have my fuel lines running far out in front of the engine. Not sure why the factory runs fuel lines on a hot engine. You want the fuel as cold as you can get it.

[BB72CHEVKT]

Anybody want to share some tips?

[geezer#99]

Not the easiest job in the world. Frustrating!!
I use a bender like in the link. Probably available at Home Depot. In the plumbing tools section. Easy to use.
http://www.bikudo.com/product_search...ct_368_90.html
Your local auto parts store should have some pre-built tubing lines in various sizes and lengths. Pic up some and practise your bends. Use some coat hanger wire to make a template and transfer it to the tubing. You'll screw up a few times. Everybody does.
If you're flaring practise on that tubing. It's not stainless. Easier to learn on. Stainless is very hard to flare. JMHO. You need to get the right grade. Softer type. Sorry I don't recall the rating. Get a good flaring tool. Don't cheap out. Quality costs. Mine was 100 bucks. Here's an example.
http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool.../OTC-6504.html
Get a small tubing cutter too. Home depot has them too. Here's a small one. Works in tight areas.
http://www.homedepot.com/buy/plumbin...ter-41599.html
When you make your flare connections don't use any sealant on the threads. The seal is made by the flare. If you have a leaker at a connection then lap it. By that I mean tighten it, loosen it, tighten it, loosen it a few times so the flare cuts it's own seat.
Have fun!!

[longbed67]

Agreed dont get a cheap double flare tool if you do your flares will turn out like crap and possibly leak. Like he said practice on the end a few times before cutting the proper length plus a little extra. If your new to it, dont go with stainless, it is MUCH harder to bend and flare properly. just my .02

[geezer#99]

OOPS!! Forgot!!
Before you put a flare on the end make sure you slide the fitting on first and in the right direction.
I learned the hardway. LOL!!!

[Musclerodz]

just to drive everyone insane here.

http://www.bentcustomandperformance.com/

[webfoot]

AN is easy, all sizes are stated in 16ths of an inch. so 6 AN = 3/8 fuel line size, 8 AN is half.

[AusTx68]

Originally Posted by webfoot

AN is easy, all sizes are stated in 16ths of an inch. so 6 AN = 3/8 fuel line size, 8 AN is half.

I totally agree. Especially after reading all the woes of bending hard lines. I ran -6 AN fuel lines from tank to carb. Just laid it in the frame and fastened it down along the frame with loops. It couldn't get any easier. My kit was similar to the one shown in this link: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-PUMPKIT1/

[geezer#99]

No doubt the guy has mad skills but I'm sure he had a pile of crappy bent lines his first time too!!

[Blue72slab]

If you want to save some time get a factory hard line and adapt it to your carb setup. I used this tool: http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...1&blockType=G1 and it works well but I broke one when I ran my 3/8" stainless line from the tank to the fuel pump. For that I ended up buying a long handle heavy duty 3/8" bender and it was a CHORE! Pump to carb is 5/16 I believe and there is nothing wrong with aluminum or mild steel, it will be MUCH easier to flare and bend.

[BB72CHEVKT]

Thanks for the info guys.

[woodwright]

Napa has some hardline that you can bend without a bender and it won't crimp.

It bends up really nice with a bender, but you can tweak it by hand if you over bend. Its got an epoxy coating, kind of a green color.

[68 Four on the Floor]

http://www.agscompany.com/faq/10

[GRX]

I have been making my own brake & fuel hard lines for decades. Just made some line for my '69 Chevy truck. Advice I would share?

~ 1 - buy a quality flaring tool. I recently bought a Ridgid #345-DL kit and am very happy with it. Price was $85 shipped
http://www.coastaltool.com/hand_tool...aring_tool.htm

~ 2 - Tubing cutters can harden the end making the flaring process more difficult. I prefer to use a hack saw, then de-burr with a file.

~ 3 - Try some NiCopp nickle-copper alloy line. Recently bought some - a joy to work with. NAPA carries NiCopp but be forewarned, it is expensive. Much easier to bend and flare, doesn't corrode like steel, and meets all SAE and ISO burst strength requirements.
http://www.agscompany.com/automotive...ines/nicopp/11

[RustyBillet]

I'll post pics in a few minutes, I install oilfield safety systems, which means I do alot of tubing bending. We use fittings with ferrules so we don't flare anything, but that's more tool ethan skill. You need to measure a bend or two ahead before you bend, since you won't always be able to be able to , ie if you bend straight up towards the floorboard you won't be able to mark where to bend back horizontally. It always makes for a better look when you follow other planes, lines, angles, etc. Bend to meet your critique... or what you're happy with anyways ask if you want a few pointers, I'm no pro but I'd be glad to help.
Posted via Mobile Device

[RustyBillet]

EDIT, I'll grab some pics tomorrow
Posted via Mobile Device

[BuiltwithIvy]

cheap trick, buy some thicker tig welding rod at your local welding store, and bend it by hand to get the look you want, transfer to your line and voila... take your time and be patient and you shouldn't have any mistakes, and I wouldn't run hard line to your engine in general, torque moves the engine, will eventually break the line, see what new vehicles run their ethanol through, and buy some of that

[GRX]

TIG rod. Good idea. I have always used coat hanger wire though. A lot cheaper. One short piece of flexible hose between frame & block is all that's required. My preference is to use much hard ine as possible to avoid potential problems. And I can't stress enough how easy the nickel-copper line is to work with. You can bent it into a pretzel by hand if needed.

Also ... laying a piece of string along the bent line is a good way of measuring the total length needed.

[MrGoodpliers]

Double flare for steel and aluminum tubing and single flare for stainless, right?

[biggestjohn]

Originally Posted by MrGoodpliers

Double flare for steel and aluminum tubing and single flare for stainless, right?

37 degree single flare for stainless. Use AN fittings and also have to use tube sleeves.

[ray_mcavoy]

Originally Posted by MrGoodpliers

Double flare for steel and aluminum tubing and single flare for stainless, right?

Originally Posted by biggestjohn

37 degree single flare for stainless. Use AN fittings and also have to use tube sleeves.

Yes, 37 deg single flare w/tube sleeve if you're using AN fittings.

But if you're using stainless tubing with stock inverted flare fittings, you need a 45 deg double flare just like you would use on a regular steel tubing. And yes, stainless can be double flared ... you need annealed tubing and a really good flaring tool though.

Originally Posted by GRX

The NiCopp stuff is a Copper/Nickle/Iron/Manganese alloy which is said to be quite durable. I did some reading before buying line for my C-10 project. Many car restores swear by it and it''s all they use now.

Yeah, I've been using a lot of that NiCopp tubing lately as well. The corrosion resistance and the ease of bending/flaring it more than make up for the extra cost in my opinion. On restoration projects, I usually give it a light coat of silver paint to make it look more like the OE tin plated steel.

[gotchevys?]

I've never used the NiCopp. I'll have to look into it. I use Cunifer which sound like about the same stuff. I bought the Cunifer at http://www.fedhillusa.com/?page=home

For flaring I use one of these. http://www.eastwood.com/professional...ring-tool.html Its not very cost effective for the guy flaring an occasional brake line but man does it make nice flares. You cannot tell the difference between the flares it makes and a factory made flare.