TCC wire with older OD trans

[Critter]

Everything I am about to discuss is concering a 2001 5.3 truck engine and a mid 80s 200-4r OD trans (CZ version out of a monte ss)...

Of the LS wire harnesses I have worked with, all have been set up for manual transmission so this is the first time I have tackled this. Do I connect RED #2 from the PCM harness (referred to as TCC Control Solenoid) to the wire that engages the solenoid on my 200-4R. Then of course connect the brake pedal light input to BLUE #33 (TCC Brake Switch)? Is it as easy as that? My understanding is that is all that's required on the wiring side of it, but I will need to use my EFI live to go in and adjust the TCC engage points to work with the 200-4R. I have read that the standard settings designed for the 4L60E will lock and unlock more often than the 200-4R likes.

Am I making this too complicated...or am I oversimplifying??? I usually do one or the other.

[gringoloco]

Sounds like a cool idea- I'm planning on running a 700r4 behind my LS and would love to get rid of my vacuum actuated TCC. How will the PCM know what gear you're in? What are you doing about VSS? Witout these two parameters, I don't see how the PCM can effectively control lockup.

[Critter]

Good point about knowing what gear its in, I guess the pcm wouldn't know that...but then again the vacuum actuated TCC doesn't know what gear you are in either it just works off of vacuum. I'm hoping the pcm can calculate off the vacuum (map sensor) just the same. As far as VSS goes, I plan to purchase from here...

http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.c...rod/prd109.htm

[clinebarger]

Ive heard you can do some real neat stuff with EFI live, Have you read anywhere that this can be made to work? If so do you have any more info?

On the factory 4L60E setup, The TCC solenoid doesnt handle TCC apply, The PWM TCC soleniod does.
On a 4L80E tune the TCC is cotrolled solely by the TCC solenoid.

There is no need to have the PCM "try" to control lock-up on a 2004R...It "could" have full control of the TCC solenoid...But not the TCC itself...

Wire the TCC solenoid's black wire to a 4th gear oil pressure switch to ground the solenoid, Run a ignition hot through a TCC brake switch to the red wire.
You will have to drop the pan to modify the harness.

The 2004R & early 700R4's have a Converter Clutch Shift valve train that is controlled by TV pressure & Governor pressure. This can hydraulically override/release the TCC solenoid under heavy throttle & not allow it to engage right on top of the 3-4 shift.

If you need any other help just ask.

[Critter]

Ok, I do need a little clarification on some of this please.

Originally Posted by clinebarger

Ive heard you can do some real neat stuff with EFI live, Have you read anywhere that this can be made to work? If so do you have any more info?

I have read some vague info elsewhere saying it was done with an LS1 and a 200-4r but they were talking in generalities, didn't give pin #s or anything like that. So I'm still researching.

Originally Posted by clinebarger

On the factory 4L60E setup, The TCC solenoid doesnt handle TCC apply, The PWM TCC soleniod does.
On a 4L80E tune the TCC is cotrolled solely by the TCC solenoid.

I am probably using the term "tcc solenoid" too losely. I guess I meant to say torque converter clutch pulse width modulation solenoid...or TCC PWM Solenoid. In other words this one...right? Is there a difference between the two?

Originally Posted by clinebarger

There is no need to have the PCM "try" to control lock-up on a 2004R...It "could" have full control of the TCC solenoid...But not the TCC itself...

Ok, so should I have phrased the question as "can my LS pcm control the TCC Solenoid on the 200-4R?

Originally Posted by clinebarger

Wire the TCC solenoid's black wire to a 4th gear oil pressure switch to ground the solenoid, Run a ignition hot through a TCC brake switch to the red wire.
You will have to drop the pan to modify the harness.

Ok, I'm scratching my head at this. I already have a 4th gear pressure switch in the 200-4r. Are you telling me to add another one or what? What you described above doesn't use the PCM at all, right?

Originally Posted by clinebarger

The 2004R & early 700R4's have a Converter Clutch Shift valve train that is controlled by TV pressure & Governor pressure. This can hydraulically override/release the TCC solenoid under heavy throttle & not allow it to engage right on top of the 3-4 shift.

This is something I was actually aware of. In my mind I would like to use the TV cable (modified to the LS TB) and hopefully the PCM to control the solenoid. But maybe its a waste of time and there are easier ways.

By the way, I stole those pictures, but they apply directly to what I am looking at.

[gringoloco]

He's saying to have the ground side of the TCC switched through the 4th gear pressure switch and the positive side controlled by the PCM through a brake switch so that it will only lock up in fourth gear and disengage when you hit the brakes. This is how my vacuum setup is wired.

The VSS you chose may not give you the fidelity needed for the PCM to know what speed you're actually traveling. Dakota Digital has a signal multiplier and you may be able to change the input via tuning software to remedy this.

I think this is very do-able and a neat option to have if you can get it to work.
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[Critter]

Originally Posted by gringoloco

He's saying to have the ground side of the TCC switched through the 4th gear pressure switch and the positive side controlled by the PCM through a brake switch so that it will only lock up in fourth gear and disengage when you hit the brakes. This is how my vacuum setup is wired.

The VSS you chose may not give you the fidelity needed for the PCM to know what speed you're actually traveling. Dakota Digital has a signal multiplier and you may be able to change the input via tuning software to remedy this.

I think this is very do-able and a neat option to have if you can get it to work.
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Ok, I follow you on the wiring of the pressure switch. As far as the pcm goes, I need to look into it more but I believe there is a wire going from my pedal switch to the computer telling it when the brake is engaged. Basically the brake interrupt wire would be passing through the PCM on its way to the trans. The PCM could (hopefully) connect or break that circuit using information from the map sensor. This way, the brake pedal would need to NOT be engaged AND vacuum conditions would have to be right in order for the solenoid to see this signal. Maybe this is all too good to be true, that's why I'm asking and trying to understand.

As far as the Dakota Digital VSS goes, you could be right. EFI Live can do a lot in the way of making adjustments to accept different input frequencies and what not. I will do what I need to do to make it work one way or the other. I know it has been done plenty of times by others.

[gringoloco]

Not sure you can use the MAP as a trigger, but you could set the TCC to engage above a certain speed, say 55mph, then if you needed to accelerate, the TV cable would kick you down into third, unlocking the converter. Send the TCC signal from the PCM through the brake switch, to the trans. Seems like the simplest way to make it work to me.

Also, the PCM may not need a terribly accurate VSS, since it won't be controlling shift points. You will just have to do the math to figure out what speed it thinks you're going and program your lockup appropriately, if that makes sense. Please make this work so I can copy you!
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[Critter]

I will let you know how it goes. I have EFI Live and an engine dyno in my shop, if it takes trial and error then so be it.