Pancaked Xmember Question

[Realnoisy]

Hello Forum,

I have a 1965 C10. I'm converting to a 73' xmember, power steering, & disc brakes.

I pancaked my xmember 1.5 and have 3 inch dropped spindles running 28 inch tires. I haven't installed the xmember yet and reading the forum I'm a little confused if I need to move the xmember 1 inch forward the rails to center the wheels in the wheel wells. I have read that this should be done when z'ing the frame but unsure if this is something I need to do with a pancaked xmember.

Since I haven't installed the xmember and power steering unit yet, your comments and advise would be very helpful. Thank you.

[tincan1966]

I moved my homemade dropmember forward 1" as recommended by several, and am very pleased with the results.
I think all or most,of the aftermarket crossemebers do move forward. There are also some other steering/suspension geometry changes that I think they make to improve the drive quality,too.
I made subtle changes to the caster angles to help improve mine, and to help the anti-dive while braking.

In my opinion, if you're this far, I think you'll be pleased with the cosmetic appeal of centering the front wheels by moving the crossmember forward. it doesn't take alot to do it.

[Realnoisy]

Originally Posted by tincan1966

I moved my homemade dropmember forward 1" as recommended by several, and am very pleased with the results.
I think all or most,of the aftermarket crossemebers do move forward. There are also some other steering/suspension geometry changes that I think they make to improve the drive quality,too.
I made subtle changes to the caster angles to help improve mine, and to help the anti-dive while braking.

In my opinion, if you're this far, I think you'll be pleased with the cosmetic appeal of centering the front wheels by moving the crossmember forward. it doesn't take alot to do it.

Thank you Tincan1966! I just didn't want to put it back together and wish I had moved it forward 1 inch because I would certainly have to tear it all back down and make it right. Plus, I still have to go through the same motions pretty much to align the power steering unit. Thank you again!

[chevyrestoguy]

Question:
If you pancake a stock crossmember say, 1.5", are you automatically committed to raising the steering box the same amount? I see alot of threads about sectioning crossmembers, but I don't recall reading anything about adjusting the steering box to compensate. Steering geometry is a tricky thing, if you get it off by a small amount, you can have issues like bump steer.

[Realnoisy]

Originally Posted by chevyrestoguy

Question:
If you pancake a stock crossmember say, 1.5", are you automatically committed to raising the steering box the same amount? I see alot of threads about sectioning crossmembers, but I don't recall reading anything about adjusting the steering box to compensate. Steering geometry is a tricky thing, if you get it off by a small amount, you can have issues like bump steer.

Good question. I would think if I move the xmember up the rails/forward 1 inch, my pitman arm would have some travel which would require moving my steering unit up.

[tincan1966]

I did not mention in my post, but I installed rack and pinion steering, so I did not have to compensate for a steering box change. But that makes sense that some remounting would be necessary. I would think the same dimensions would apply- 1" forward and 1.5" up.

[tincan1966]

Not a great pic, but my crossmember installed with R & P steering

My crossmember raised the control arms 3" and moved forward 1"

[ChiefRocka]

I am working on a Crossmember section HOW TO thread that'll be up soon, that will address the stock steering too.

[Solo2002]

This is something I am wondering about myself I want to pancake mine 2 inches and didn't know rather to move it forward or not
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[Realnoisy]

Originally Posted by tincan1966

Not a great pic, but my crossmember installed with R & P steering

My crossmember raised the control arms 3" and moved forward 1"

That right there is some engineering!

Originally Posted by ChiefRocka

I am working on a Crossmember section HOW TO thread that'll be up soon, that will address the stock steering too.

I can't wait to read it! Hopefully you will have it posted by next weekend.

Originally Posted by Solo2002

This is something I am wondering about myself I want to pancake mine 2 inches and didn't know rather to move it forward or not
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I moved mine forward yesterday after Tincan1996's advise. It was pretty easy as he claims. I made a template, measured 10 times per side and drilled the holes. After installing the xmember, everything measured out correctly. I used a 1/2" Cobalt drill bit from ACE Hardware. Cost me $22.00 (ugh!) but I have to tell you, that is one of the best investments on a drill bit I have ever made.

[tincan1966]

TY realnoisy! The first one is a bit rough and primitive, the second one is coming along smoother.

[Solo2002]

Thanks guys this info really helps me with my choices i have for the front of my truck and what needs to be done and looking foward to that thread on the pancakeing i have some how to photos but they are kinda skippy need a lil more detail than what i have thanks guys.
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[RollinKaos]

Cant wait to see the "How to" thread. Been looking at this as an option to the aftermarkets.

[Realnoisy]

Here are some photos of my pancake/section xmember process. We used Cast 9/Super9 welding rods. I hope this will help someone as I have taken alot of ideas and advice from this site. Time to give back and hope I can give more in the future.

[Realnoisy]

Before running final bead and cleaning up.

[Solo2002]

ok thats like what i have but you can see what needs to be done better in your pics than you can in this link http://www.captkaoscustoms.com/chopcross.htmland i have one for a raised x-member to but i think it will just open a big ol can of worms with clearance issues http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=478965

[Realnoisy]

Originally Posted by Solo2002

ok thats like what i have but you can see what needs to be done better in your pics than you can in this link http://www.captkaoscustoms.com/chopcross.htmland i have one for a raised x-member to but i think it will just open a big ol can of worms with clearance issues http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/s...d.php?t=478965

Thanks, I used CaptKaos directions and it turned out great. My motor mounts and everything lined right up. The only problem I had was fitting it back on the rails. I had to do a little grinding to make adjustments.

Don't get me wrong, it's NOT a piece of cake. It's hard work and time if you want to do it right. You have to think about safety as well so it's important that you take your time and research everything. Go to Car shows, Swap Meets etc.. ask questions.

[RollinKaos]

Great pics! So does this give you a couple inches more drop or is it mainly for those who bag their trucks and looking to lay frame?

[Realnoisy]

Originally Posted by RollinKaos

Great pics! So does this give you a couple inches more drop or is it mainly for those who bag their trucks and looking to lay frame?

I'm trying to lay xmember/control arms and I'm using bags so the answer is yes. Anymore than 1.5 inches will require you notch out the frame and install rack and pinion. I think there are better ways to go if you are just doing a static drop. If you go too low, it will be costly to go back. Research the forum under "Suspension" or use the search box and use "xmember, crossmember, pancake crossmember, etc... Read, read, read!

[stealth_weapons]

this is good info. if you check out my pages you can see the clearance issues with a big static drop. i have 3in springs, 2.5in drop spindles, and another 3in in the control arms for a total of 8.5in of drop in the front. not much room for error while riding around. the rtear is only a 4in drop spring for now.

[Solo2002]

No it's not just for bags basically what you are doing is sectioning the x-member to drop the frame down and from what I have learned about it so far is how much u section the steering must be raised just as much or you get killer bump steer correct me if I'm wrong with any of this as I have not done this yet but I am thinking it over really hard check out Dino's dually build that's where I learned about the steering needing to be lifted so you don't have to use a rack set up when mine is finished if I do this I'll have a 8X8 drop 3" spindle 3" spring and 2" pancake up front and a 5" spring and 3" block in the rear with a notch and adj trac-bar hope this is a lil help any way
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[Solo2002]

Originally Posted by stealth_weapons

this is good info. if you check out my pages you can see the clearance issues with a big static drop. i have 3in springs, 2.5in drop spindles, and another 3in in the control arms for a total of 8.5in of drop in the front. not much room for error while riding around. the rtear is only a 4in drop spring for now.

Just checked out your build cool truck
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[Realnoisy]

I agree that sectioned/pancake xmember is not just for bagged trucks but that is a lot of work for 2 inches on a static drop. Since I'm converting to a 73' xmember to gain disc brakes, power steering the time was right to section.

IMO, you could DROP CUP LCA's, drop LCA's 2 inches, Zframe or cut coils to gain 2 inches much easier than sectioning the xmember.

[Realnoisy]

DROP LCA's 2 inches - http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=570568

[Solo2002]

Originally Posted by Realnoisy

I agree that sectioned/pancake xmember is not just for bagged trucks but that is a lot of work for 2 inches on a static drop. Since I'm converting to a 73' xmember to gain disc brakes, power steering the time was right to section.

IMO, you could DROP CUP LCA's, drop LCA's 2 inches, Zframe or cut coils to gain 2 inches much easier than sectioning the xmember.

But you would still lose 2 inches of ground clearance of the x-member with LCAs and not with a pancake rite?
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