Static or Air?

[firefighter736]

I've spent the last two hours reading through air bag threads on this site and finally decided to just make a thread as I couldn't find exactly what I was looking for.

I currently have cut coils on my truck. I love the look but the ride is very, very rough. My ultimate goal is to retain the current ride height but to improve the feel. The rear height/ride is fine so I'm just trying to do something with the front.

Here are a couple of things I've decided:

1) I'm not interested in "laying frame"
2) I'm not interested in adding a compressor, I'd rather just run two schrader valves and manually keep them full. Would be open to having bags connected with one valve to fill both, if possible
3) If going the static route I'd like to retain my drum brakes for the moment (don't really have the $$ at the moment to swap front to discs + drop spindle).


So taking these three things into consideration should I look at lowering springs or a front air bag kit?

Here is a pic of my truck's current stance for reference:




Any help is greatly appreciated, guys!
-Barry

[BR3W CITY]

So my take on this is; you like the mechanical simplicity and lack of maintenance that a static drop provides (with the looks as well), but you don't want the hard ride/rattles and "Stiffness" that tend to come with a static drop over an inch or two.

I'd vote for something like shockwaves from Brett V. and the guys over at ridetech (I forget what their username is on here). Its similar to a coilover but uses an airbag as its center section, offer the smoothness of the air, but doesn't get "floaty" and lets you still run what would basically be a static drop.

I can't tell for sure, but I'd say your at a 3/4" drop? Maybe a 4/4? I'd ditch the cut coils, get a set of lowering spindles to get you back 2" of drop (and keep better geometry) and then use the shockwaves as your shock/spring/bag and air them to the height and feel you want.

Get some 1/4" air line fittings for on the shockwaves if you can (Cheapest line and fittings, and you don't need size since your not actively filling and dumping), run a line from each side up to a T somewhere on the firewall maybe? Put a valve on the top line of the T, and there you are.

They make a few different types of shockwaves and you may have to clearance the a-arms like you do on some bag setups, but the guys at ridetech could give you a better idea.

[firefighter736]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

So my take on this is; you like the mechanical simplicity and lack of maintenance that a static drop provides (with the looks as well), but you don't want the hard ride/rattles and "Stiffness" that tend to come with a static drop over an inch or two.

Pretty much. Sounds like it may be wishful thinking as I can't do spindles until I convert to disc (which is well over a year out).

I'm not adverse to putting one of the plate/cup systems on the front (like Jason sells) but I'm worried about it sitting too low... is that a valid concern?

[NewType72]

certainly right in the exact same ball park on this one I love having solid feel of a static ride but it does get rough and my truck never hauls have a connection for airbags but am wondering if i should just wait until I frame off and go crazy with a bag setup from ridetech

[BR3W CITY]

you'd have to shoot me a link to the system, as I don't know which one you mean off the cuff.

If I may pose a logic question, why bother putting in work on the suspension, if you are a year out on stuff like disc brakes. IMO it would make more sense to do the spindles and disc brakes, while keeping the truck on static drop...that way when you free up the cash, your right there. Thats an opinion tho, it may not work for what you want.

The problem with doing a plate/cup system with regular bags is that the bag is the only thing regulating height AND dampening the load. This is fine if you want to then add shocks and do a regular bag system with a compressor etc, but its not as good if you want to leave it on one pressure. Reason I say this is that the ride height is a function of bag size and pressure in the bag, and both affect the feel of the ride. To get the ride height you want, you may have to run a pressure that is less than ideal for the feel you want, plus you still have to add shocks.

The shockwaves design acts as a shock as well, and though you control over the ride height, pairing it with something like drop spindles would give you more drop, more control and better all around geometery... You can still run the shockwave without the drop spindles, and upgrade to the spindles later, as the a-arms are the same either way.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by BR3W CITY

you'd have to shoot me a link to the system, as I don't know which one you mean off the cuff.

If I may pose a logic question, why bother putting in work on the suspension, if you are a year out on stuff like disc brakes. IMO it would make more sense to do the spindles and disc brakes, while keeping the truck on static drop...that way when you free up the cash, your right there. Thats an opinion tho, it may not work for what you want.

The problem with doing a plate/cup system with regular bags is that the bag is the only thing regulating height AND dampening the load. This is fine if you want to then add shocks and do a regular bag system with a compressor etc, but its not as good if you want to leave it on one pressure. Reason I say this is that the ride height is a function of bag size and pressure in the bag, and both affect the feel of the ride. To get the ride height you want, you may have to run a pressure that is less than ideal for the feel you want, plus you still have to add shocks.

The shockwaves design acts as a shock as well, and though you control over the ride height, pairing it with something like drop spindles would give you more drop, more control and better all around geometery... You can still run the shockwave without the drop spindles, and upgrade to the spindles later, as the a-arms are the same either way.

If a guy is not able to do the drop spindle/disc brake swap, he more than likely won't opt for Shockwaves. They're not only more expensive than a spindle/disc swap, they'll require additional fab work to install (time is money too).

I agree w/not utilizing manual/schrader filled bags for the front on anything other than the occasional weekend toy.

If you do opt for bags up front, don't 'T' them together. Install them w/independent lines to each side as it will prevent air transfer when the truck 'leans' while navigating a turn.

[502ms]

Properly bagged system can run circles around static dropped systems. No floating, just comfortable...adjustable on the fly.

Posted via Mobile Device

[502ms]

Another reason to go bagged:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ocnP...e_gdata_player
Love the truck...
Adjustability makes life easier.
Posted via Mobile Device

[BR3W CITY]

^^I don't think its an issue of not liking bags, he just doesn't want to deal with all the components, instead just take advantage of the ride without needed adjustability or playtime on the bags.

[suspect]

i would make getting lowering spindles and disc brakes the first on the list. i do hear you when you say money is tight though. the guys at work laugh and give me a hard time because i have my tool box filled with wolf brand chilli and crackers (and a few other items). they tell me they can't see how i can eat that stuff everyday. but then they're not laughing when they see all my truck parts rolling off the ups & fedex trucks. i've been trying to get my wife to eat cheap for 3 yrs now, but it's still not working. lol

you have a cool looking truck, by the way.

[ProNo]

Originally Posted by suspect

i would make getting lowering spindles and disc brakes the first on the list. i do hear you when you say money is tight though. the guys at work laugh and give me a hard time because i have my tool box filled In-dash Player wolf brand chilli and crackers (and a few other items). they tell me they can't see how i can eat that stuff everyday. but then they're not laughing when they see all my truck parts rolling off the ups & fedex trucks. i've been trying to get my wife to eat cheap for 3 yrs now, but it's still not working. lol

you have a cool looking truck, by the way.

Haha. I laughed so hard when I heard that "eat cheap" line.. So true, the wives one pain we can't get ride of.

[N2TRUX]

I suggest you get rid of the cut coils ans start over. If your getting a harsh ride its probably because the coils are too short and stiff or and your shocks are worn out. I do NOT recommend running bags up front on scraders. If they leak while you are out, they can leave you stranded.

I feel you should save till you can do it right.

[made2drag]

i'd say get some high quality 3 inch lowering springs and put them in. then add the 2 or 3 inch spindles in later. add some new shocks and you'd be set. 3 inch would require the 1 1/4 inch spindles and may have some 73-78 parts to buy also.

im pretty happy with my cut coils on my blazer....make sure your bumpstops arent hitting and creating the harsh ride. if your riding bumpstops then it will be super bouncey.... take them out if they are keeping the suspension from working. chances are you'll put new shorter bumpstops in when you upgrade later anyway

[andrewmp6]

I'm with n2trux a 3 gallon tank and small compressor is all you need and it don't take up much space.

[firefighter736]

Sorry for the late responses, guys. I'm on vacation and having to check in from this great hotel wireless.


Anyways, I guess what I need to do is at least purchase some decent 3 (or 4) inch drop springs. Anybody have a recommendation of who to get them from?


While I have the arms apart is it a good time to replace the ball joints, as well?

[Scottshotrods]

We can take care of you on the dropped springs for you truck.We sell CPP line and we have VERY FAST shipping and GREAT service.You can reach us at (805)485-0382

Justin

[andrewmp6]

Yeah i would do the ball joints just because you are already there,And get moog ball joints they seem to last longer to me.

[ol_skool_chevy]

Step the lower control arms and use 3/4 ton spring replace your ball joints and tie rod ends and add a sway bar...you will love it

[NewType72]

^ thanks for the heads up I was looking into a t setup for bags in front I'll opt out of that now with the leaning fact

[made2drag]

drop springs first then spindles and disc's then decide if you want bags to go lower. springs and spindles will probably be enough since you are happy with how low cut coils got you

[made2drag]

i agree with scoti. shockwaves are not budget friendly when you still need to shell out big bucks for a disc brake conversion

[chevy_mike]

Having bought my '65 truck with 3" drop springs in the front, I can honestly say it was the worst riding vehicle I have ever had. The wife would not even ride in it. A set of CPP modular 2" drop spindles and my old '68 C10 front springs with 1/2 coil cut (=1" drop) and I was sitting at the same ride height but the ride was SOOOOO much better.

3" drop front springs puts you almost on the factor bump stops (the metal area, not the rubber which you will almost touch). If you cut off the metal bump area from the control arm you can get more travel but risk over flexing your ball joints.

[chevyrestoguy]

The disc brake swap is quite cheap if you look through Craigslist and find a '73-'87 half-ton parts truck that's about ready to head to the scrapper. You don't care about the title or paperwork because it's never going to be registered, and most sellers just want them gone, so you can pick them up for almost nothing. The cradles are nearly identical...all you have to do is drill two new holes and slot two others and it all bolts right in. Use the brake lines and master cylinder from the parts truck and buy a booster adapter bracket from Capt. Fab. Simple and cheap, and waaaay safer than the stock drum brake system.

At a minimum, keep searching Craigslist and find a pair of used drop spindles for a '73-'87 and cut a coil from the stock springs. Depending on the brand of the spindle, you'll have between a 4" and 5" drop and it'll still ride good.

It's going to cost you a couple of hundred bucks to do this, but it's worth it. This method gets you a good basis to work from if you ever decide to go to an air ride system in the future. Air ride is great, but it isn't cheap. If you're on a budget, you can build a nice static system utilizing mostly factory parts and minimal aftermarket pieces. You've just got to do your homework, and use the Search function on this site. There's some great info on here from guys in your exact same situation.

[gringoloco]

I'm with chevyrestoguy. Do it once, do it right. 'Bags will cost you a couple hun to setup and may not cure your ride quality issues. Bagging the front with no positive control or backup system is a recipe for headaches, at best...
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[firefighter736]

Thanks for all the help, guys. I think what I'll do is buy some drop springs and ball joints and redo those in the interim and plan to do a disk swap in the late spring/summer.