Project Modernizing a Squarebody Suburban Audio System

[cal30_sniper]

Hey all,

I just kicked off on a big and likely length modificiation to my '86 C20 Suburban. A combination of factors has led me to finally bite the bullet and start attempting to upgrade the audio qualities of the old truck. I figured I'd start up a thread for comments/suggestions, as well as a review of certain methods that might help out others who are trying to do the same thing. As a general outline, here's what I have planned:

1. Sound Deadening
2. Quality Speakers and Improved Speaker Placement
3. Improved Supporting Audio Equipment

I'm currently running a Pioneer DEH-P4400 deck, and the factory speakers. Everything else (insulation, carpet, etc) in the interior is bone stock '86, with the exception of my '96 Leather seats. Here's the details on what I am currently installing, and have plans to install in the future:

In Progress:
1. Cargo Area Sound Deadening:
a. 56 sq.ft. of Second Skin Damplifier Pro deadener (cargo floor, wheelwells, and sides)
b. 36 sq.ft. of Second Skin Luxury Liner Pro noise insulation (cargo floor and wheelwells)
c. Home Depot aluminum/bubble wrap style noise/thermal insulation (behind cargo door panels and tailgate)
d. LMC Truck MIP cargo floormats and wheelwell covers

Planned:
1. Floorboard Sound Deadening
a. Second Skin Damplifier Pro
b. Second Skin Luxury Liner
c. New Carpet (no jute backing)

2. Door and tailgate sound deadening
a. Second Skin Damplifier Pro
b. Home Depot aluminum/bubble wrap

3. Roof Insulation
a. Home depot aluminum/bubble wrap behind new headliner fabric on original board

4. Speaker Upgrades
a. Infinity 3.5" Dash Speakers
b. Infinity 6.5" Kick Panel Speakers
c. Infinity 6x9" Rear Panel Speakers
d. Alpine 1" Dome Tweeters installed on Overhead Console (to be installed)
e. single 10" cargo hold sub (need help deciding here, is it really worth it? I don't want to bump, I just want full range lower tones in my music)

5. Supporting Audio Equipment
a. Suitable amplifier/amplifiers necessary to run 8 speakers (need help here deciding what kind of setup to run, doesn't need to be super crazy, I just want a nice, full, cab-filling sound. I don't listen to very loud music, I like my ears just fine the way they are).
b. Speaker wires, pass filters, etc, necessary to complete the installation.

I'll keep updating as I move forward. All comments and discussion are welcome. I do a lot of long distance driving, and I'm tired of hours spent with rattles and reverberations accented by a terrible factory sound system (who's idea were 4x10" speakers anyways?)

I'm looking forward to y'all's input, as well as a chance to bring fresh knowledge into a very complicated subject.

-cal30sniper

[cal30_sniper]

So, some updates...

Step 1:
Stripped out all of the factory carpet and insulation, cleaned out the floorboards, and coated them completely with Rustoleum #7771 (almost an exact match for my body color, it's what I used on the engine bay of this truck as well). There is absolutely no rust in this truck. The only thing I found that wasn't as it left the showroom was a bump at the rear drivers side where a spring mount broke and hit the floorpan. I figured that out because there's a brand new mount in that corner. Anyways, here's some shots after cleaning:





Step 2:
After several days of letting the paint bake completely dry, I moved on with the second step. This consisted of 56 sq ft of Second Skin Audio Damplifier Pro applied to the floorboards, fenderwells, and cargo area sides/spare tire well. After I finished rolling that on (took 2 days to get everything cut and fit just the way I wanted it), I taped all the seams with FlexFit aluminum ducting tape. This keeps anyone from cutting their hands on the thick aluminum sheeting if they ever have to do any work in proximity with the damplifier. Here's what the finished application looked like:





Step 3:
The Damplifier Pro quieted things down considerably back there, but still let some road noise through. I had about 35 sq ft of Second Skin Luxury Liner Pro left over from the floorboards of my totaled '87 Firebird, so I pulled it out, cleaned it up some, and let it lay out flat in the sun for a few days. Once it was flattened back out again, I patchwork quilted it into the floor and fenderwells of the suburban. It took me a while to get everything fitted and covered like I wanted. Once I had it, I glued each piece in place with 3M Rubber and Vinyl spray adhesive. After it had set, I taped up the seams, in an effort to keep any spilled water from getting under the mats, as well as to keep any of the mats from getting moved around by something shifting on top of the carpet. It came out very nice, and really quieted things down back there.





Step 4:
I also decided to replace the tailgate weatherstripping to keep rainwater from leaking in the back and working its way under the mats. Cleaning out the factory gasket was a huge pain, but I finally got it out. I then cleaned everything out real good with warm soapy water, and painted the seal and tailgate jamb area with Rustoleum. The new LMC truck gasket and window sweep rolled right into place. I also readjusted the tailgate latches to snug it up tight and keep any rattles out there. Tomorrow, I'll be putting Damplifier Pro on the tailgate, and lining the backs of the cargo panels and tailgate panel with aluminum wrap insulation from Lowes. I'll post photos of that once it's complete.

Things are moving along nicely, except for the floor lining. The LMC vinyl mats were junk. Fit was terrible on the fenderwells. The pieces of rubber they sent to cover those were completely flat, and had no molding whatsoever. I'm sending that back, and ordering carpet from 1Aauto. I'm waiting on color samples right now to see what color exactly that I need. It's a shame I can't get the matting, I was thinking that was going to work out really nice. Oh well, the carpet will be quieter and nicer if I ever have anybody riding in the third row seat.

Stay Tuned.

-cal30sniper

[1ATony]

The cargo area in that truck looks awesome. It should look/sound great when it's done.

[jimmydean]

Wow, that looks like my truck. I did 1 layer of dead + a layer of industrial foam floor pad, then carpet. My interior is dead quiet.

[Igorsgonemadd]

Getting ready to tackle this on my truck. Is it really necessary to cover the whole thing in the sound deadner? I thought you just needed 25% coverage.
Posted via Mobile Device

[jimmydean]

Originally Posted by Igorsgonemadd

Getting ready to tackle this on my truck. Is it really necessary to cover the whole thing in the sound deadner? I thought you just needed 25% coverage.
Posted via Mobile Device

Not a truck, but a good overview of the concept.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/m...oofing-car.htm

[motornut]

that looks great cleaned up good
nice colour match too!

[jimmydean]

You don't need to cover it. There is a method to the madness. I covered just to get coverage, but to deaden the sound, you only need to put some in the middle where the most flex of each panel is. There are lots of websites that show theory and application of deadener. I had the material, so I used it.

[cal30_sniper]

Thanks for the compliments guys! I actually have all the panels insulated and back in now, and the carpet should be going in this weekend. Just waiting on the package to get here from 1A right now. I should have more pictures up soon.

As far as coverage goes, more is better. The sound deadener goes on in two ways. The first is the anti-vibrational mat (the Damplifier Pro). Complete coverage is not necessary for it, but the more you can get, the better. It's primary function is to stop panel vibrations. From my experience with it, it takes about 50% coverage to do that effectively. However, it also has a compact butyl core with a thick aluminum layer on top, so the more coverage you get, the more noise and heat insulation you get purely from the mass and reflectivity of the materials used in it. You can definitely hear the difference in resonance of the panels between 50 and 100% coverage, at least on a big, flat walled vehicle like this.

The Luxury Liner really requires as much coverage as possible. It is a mass deadener. Any area that is not enclosed by the mass deadener lets sound waves through. I have 100% coverage on the floors and fenderwells, but it's too heavy and thick to go behind the vertical panels. In that case, I fit and spray glued aluminum foil/bubble wrap thermal/noise insulation from Lowes to the back of the panels. You can see the completed side panels in the photo below:



I put this insulation (as well as about 75% coverage of Damplifier pro) on the tailgate surface as well. This, coupled with new seals and tightening up the latches virtually eliminated rattles and vibrations/noise coming from the rear compartment. It's extremely quiet back there, and I don't even have the carpet in yet.

-cal30sniper

[Billett]

keep us updated on progress! Looks awesome so far

[OutlawDrifter]

cal30, i run kenwood headunits and speakers in most of my vehicles. they have always been a great choice. i have an 8" powered sub-tube in my jimmy with a boston audio sub, it only has 60w or so going to it and it does what you are asking for...i can also turn it up and get some thump out of it if i want. the speakers in the the jimmy are the mid-range kenwood 6x9 3-ways, between them and the sub, they give a great range of sound.

[Billett]

I just bought the infinity kappa 4" series for my dash. The reference ones aren't bad but the kappas are awesome. Had them in my s10 and they were great in there too. My brother has a set of Boston 6x9s in the El Camino and they bump pretty good. Personally I'd go with a sundown audio SA-8 in your situation. They don't need a ton of room, but they hit pretty damn hard for 8s. 0.28 ft^3 sealed.

[cal30_sniper]

Billett,

Is there a reason you went with the 4" instead of the 3.5"? I was pretty certain that the 3.5" was the correct size for our dashes. I could be mistaken, but I hope not, because my 3.5" just came in yesterday.

I ended up with Infinity Kappa 2-ways front and rear, 3.5" in the front and 6x9" in the rear. My carpet is here too, I've just got to find time to put it all in. I'll be doing the birthday ball this weekend, so won't happen til at least next weekend.

Outlaw,

I've used the Kenwoods before, and wasn't terribly impressed. They give good bass, but the clarity and mids just weren't there compared to the Infinitys that I listened to. I have Pioneers in my GTA, and they're better than the Kenwoods. In fact, I like them a lot, I'm just looking for top notch sound on this deal to help fill up such a large cabin.

[adamjason]

Originally Posted by cal30_sniper

Billett,

Is there a reason you went with the 4" instead of the 3.5"? I was pretty certain that the 3.5" was the correct size for our dashes. I could be mistaken, but I hope not, because my 3.5" just came in yesterday.

I ended up with Infinity Kappa 2-ways front and rear, 3.5" in the front and 6x9" in the rear. My carpet is here too, I've just got to find time to put it all in. I'll be doing the birthday ball this weekend, so won't happen til at least next weekend.

Outlaw,

I've used the Kenwoods before, and wasn't terribly impressed. They give good bass, but the clarity and mids just weren't there compared to the Infinitys that I listened to. I have Pioneers in my GTA, and they're better than the Kenwoods. In fact, I like them a lot, I'm just looking for top notch sound on this deal to help fill up such a large cabin.

Hope you had a good birthday! Any progress on this? I would like to see how this turned out, I too am planning a similar project and this thread was just getting good!
Great job with the sound deadening!

[ratedrookie]

Originally Posted by cal30_sniper

I've used the Kenwoods before, and wasn't terribly impressed. They give good bass, but the clarity and mids just weren't there compared to the Infinitys that I listened to. I have Pioneers in my GTA, and they're better than the Kenwoods. In fact, I like them a lot, I'm just looking for top notch sound on this deal to help fill up such a large cabin.

What is your budget? Do you consider yourself an audiophile and are you very particular about your music playback? I ask because top notch sound is impossible to generalize or quantify since sound is so subjective.

That's where I would have started. Given the effort you have put into sound deadening, I would assume you put some value into such things. Given this assumption, I would scrap the 3.5's and auxiliary tweeters altogether. Get yourself some good 6.5" components, maybe even some 3-way comps with mid-range, mid-bass, and tweeters. Also, consider upgrading from the Pioneer DEH-P4400. Get something with a better digital-to-analog converter. I'm not familiar with these Suburbans so where are the 6x9's mounted? Are they mounted in the second row or all the way to the rear of the vehicle?

Again, if you answered "yes" to the audiophile question, then consider going with an active crossover network. You want to power each speaker with a dedicated channel of clean amplification and either use amps with capable built-in crossovers or get yourself an external crossover to control the frequencies to each range. Of course you don't have to do this as you can always use the passive crossovers, but you'll have less flexibility and adjustability if you are very particular.

Regardless of what you decide to do with your mids and highs, you should definitely add a subwoofer if you want to cover a more complete range of frequencies and provide your music with the bottom end kick you'll be missing otherwise. A single subwoofer in the right ported enclosure will do wonders.

[Billett]

That's exactly why I went with infinity's. IMO they are the best bang for your buck in the mid level price range. Keep in mind I have a 68 not a square body, but the stock speaker in my dash is a 4x10 so I figured two 4"s would fit. And indeed they do. I'll post a pick up later tonight or tomorrow of what I did with mine. It isn't finished, but it'll give you an idea of what it's going to end up like. Let me know what you think about the 6x9s, I've been debating on those too. I think the 3.5" ones will work fine though. Really shouldn't be much difference, but I figured I could fit them so why not haha

[OutlawDrifter]

Guys, this thread is 3 years old.