Why has no one tried to fabricate a new hatch?

[skorpioskorpio]

I keep seeing all the problems with the original hatch, and honestly when you look at most of the newer pickup shells it seems like maybe either a full glass or steel or aluminum framed with surface mounted glass would look great on one of these trucks, and I wouldn't think it would be difficult to surface mount the side glass either giving the whole top an updated look. I mean all 3 panes are flat glass, this is all something just about any glass shop can cut, or for that matter be cut on a waterjet, including mounting holes for the hinges and latch.

Thoughts?

[jjzepplin]

I think you are on to something! I have thought about this many times just never had the time to do it. It would be much lighter and could use newer shock type struts to hold it open. I say go for it! I have also wondered why someone hasn't reproduced a good single-wall top that I could get off myself??

[panhead59]

My guess is that the demand is not big enough or long lasting enough. On this site they would be huge, but think about it- there really aren't that many blazers of this era left. And that number goes down everyday. That's what really gets to me. People balk at paying $200- to whatever, for a used top that isn't even available anymore, and complain about it!!! Unbeleivable!! People want something for nothing and they want it perfect or "clean and rust free"!!! Come on people, if u want something unique, cool, getting rare, u gotta pay for it!! Jeeeeesssss!!!! So if a small time outfit were to replicate these "hatches" I think it would go over great at the beginning and most likely sell a lot of em and then sales would slow down to a bare trickle. Just my opinion.

[skorpioskorpio]

I don't think there is really a market to fabricate, tool up, and produce new tops, hell if there was, is this ever an application for carbon fiber! It'd need half the structure, so weigh, what? maybe 150-175lbs with glass....bigger glass. I could be an inner and outer skin with a foam core, made from a mold from a original top on the outside, and then just what you need on the inside to mate with the truck. Anyway, back to glass...

For the sides you could make maybe an inner and outer frame the shape of the side window out of aluminum, 3-4mm maybe, with a 1/2" rim (on a waterjet) that is sandwiched either side of the existing top lip. these are screwed to each other with spacers to compensate for the top wall thickness in between. That structure is just siliconed in place to seal it to the top. You'd probably need a rubber interface gasket in between the frame and glass which could also be cut on a waterjet. The rubber gasket is glued to the frame and then the glass glued to the rubber --OR-- when the glass is cut, now remember this is now glass intended to fill the entire recess in the top and not just fit into the OEM gasket, it could have the holes in it for several of those glass mounting buttons they use for flip out windows to hold it in place. You could even make flip outs part of the deal if you wanted.

The back is trickier because it needs to open, needs enough structure to lock, to work with struts, and will *move* more being against the tailgate, and most importantly seal against a surface that was intended to have something 2 inches thick there. Maybe there needs to be a component of it that screws into the original top to simplify that part of it. I really need to get a good look at how Leer does it, they are making tops now that are all surface mount glass and they have mostly the same issues to contend with. What I'm thinking is that if most of this can be done as waterjet patterns and minimize the amount of post fabrication process this can be reproducible. In that sense there is no tooling, jigs, molds, it's just a pattern and a process.

It's probably also best that, at least the hatch, be easily removable to reduce the weight of taking the top on and off as well as risking breaking the rear glass in that process. It would probably be best to use laminated glass, because it's quite strong and is also a cut and done process where as tempered would need to be cut, and then tempered. I was thinking that using that tint-in-the-laminate type of glass that GM used on the back sides and rear windows of later Suburbans with the privacy glass option.

To do this as parts on the shelf would put it at a cost that would further limit it's market and make it an impractical aftermarket product, I was thinking more along the lines of a collaborative How-To.

All this said, this is mostly a brain dump at this point to a problem I want to address at some point, but is probably a next summer project. I have access to the water jet (equipped for glass and metal) and access to a CNC mill but I'm not sure it's needed for this. I'm really just trying to open a discussion on the subject to bounce ideas. Honestly the side glass and hatch on these old blazers is it's weakest feature, the top itself looks like something that a car manufacture produced but the hatch and glass is all very 1960-70s aftermarkety looking, well that hatch mostly. Almost looks like something that came off a kit car. Certainly something that could be done better and probably look more factory than the factory did.

[jjzepplin]

I think we've found our man

[noco-k5]

I would think one of the companies that make aftermarket truck toppers could do this easily since they are constantly changing things as new models of trucks come out. I guess if it was some huge profit opportunity though somebody would have done it by now.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by noco-k5

I would think one of the companies that make aftermarket truck toppers could do this easily since they are constantly changing things as new models of trucks come out. I guess if it was some huge profit opportunity though somebody would have done it by now.

More importantly, I am surprised there wasn't aftermarket ones in the beginning, although given the time they probably would have been made out of aluminum extrusions and decorated with fake wood and bubble windows.

[fxdxharley]

Im no glass guy and im far from needing to work on my top but i think you have a valid idea. as for the cost though I think it may be more than what most would be willing to pay for the one off glass / hatch. but for the cool factor hell yeah it would be nice.

[skorpioskorpio]

My one concern with using the glass a structural member is that it needs to lock and hold the tailgate closed. I think on most all glass hatches the tailgate is the primary locking device and not the hatch. I realize a handle relocation solves a lot of that but it still needs to be a 3 point lock I would think. I'd also be a little concerned that the original top is more prone to flex than the typical steel frame structure that all glass hatches are usually attached to. Then again, I'm betting Leer is dealing with these same issues with half the structure in their toppers, so maybe I'm just being paranoid.

I am assuming what you are suggesting is simply making a fiberglass piece that moves the mating lip further out to the edge where you can attach a soft weather seal to it for the glass to rest against, right?

[bk04z66]

Yes, and my vette moves around more than a wet noodle. Its hatch is curved which adds to its strength, but a thick enough piece of glass with a latch that allows it to move around some will be fine. Its low on my list for my blazer, but a glass hatch is on the to do list.

[Wasted Income]

If you come up with something good, I'll be in line to buy it.

[in deep 72]

Hmmm, now you all have me thinking. An all glass hatch would be cool! Just got done stripping an M series Bobcat out...the door on them is all glass, small frame mounts to the inside to go from hindges to the latch and has a really nice seal. I know they go through a beating so bumps and vibrations shouldn't be an issue. Might have to do some engineering myself to see what I can come up with......although I rarely run with a top it would be nice to have if I needed.

[Pife]

I am making currently working on making my original top into a four piece top. sides and back removable and the top stays on, or you can remove it too. I still have a long way to go!

[Wasted Income]

Originally Posted by Pife

I am making currently working on making my original top into a four piece top. sides and back removable and the top stays on, or you can remove it too. I still have a long way to go!

Badass! Post some pics!

[mcmlxix]

Originally Posted by Pife

I am making currently working on making my original top into a four piece top. sides and back removable and the top stays on, or you can remove it too. I still have a long way to go!

I like this too...

[hgs_notes]

Subscribed.

[skorpioskorpio]

The more I delve into this the more I think this is something that needs to be done. I think the surface mount glass top with a full glass hatch together with a de-texturing (smoothing) of the top and a one piece glass treatment on the doors would really look slick. I never thought I'd actually be advocating wing window removal but the more I look at it the more limiting mirror placement and choices seems to be. I'm not sure I'm willing to make the leap to suggest modern window crotch mirrors are the ticket, I think maybe that is too far, but I do think bullet type mirrors would look better than those stock type dental mirrors, dysfunctional peeps, or some of these mid sixties uncle Earl's sedan mirrors that together make up 99% of the mirror choices on 67-72s. Lets face it by the time the first gens were done, even Pintos and Vegas had bullet mirrors as an option, it's not unperiod or unbefitting.

[Ebstard944]

I was looking at this thread last week and thinking quite a bit about it. Google formed plexiglass. It seems like it would be stronger, and lighter than fiberglass. Use an original as a pattern for the pieces, or make the outside part all plexiglass, and paint the window out line so you dont see the hardware.

My wife thinks im nuts thinking about this for 3 days.

[skorpioskorpio]

OK, so I had my '91 Suburban broken into twice, opposite coasts BTW, both times it was the vent windows that were broken out. I decided to replace the glass in the vent windows with polycarbonate (Lexan), figured if it can take a bullet it can take a rock or what ever they used (considering how much damage they did getting the radio out I'm guessing rock or maybe brick or parking meter, or some other wildly inappropriate tool). Anyway, point is these non-glass vent windows didn't stand the test of time so well. Makes you realize how abrasive highway speed air is, they pretty much look like frosted glass. Acyclic (Plexiglas) would be a little better, but I doubt by much. There is such a thing as abrasion resistant acrylic but it tends to craze with movement like you would have in a vehicle, it's created by flaming the surface with a very clean burning torch to re-flow the surface. Oh and acrylic won't take a bullet, it splits, easier to break than tempered or laminated glass actually. I think it really needs to be glass.

[scruffyjesse]

Love the 4 piece idea! you would have to make the joints internal other wise it would ruin the lines on the truck. I second the pic notion.

[Ebstard944]

Ok, interesting. But as far as the structure itself (replacing just the fiberglass portion) and just paint it to match the top. Carbon fiber would work, just cost big $. I wonder if you can get lexan in non transparent. It has to be pretty tough, they make airplane windshields out of it.
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[skorpioskorpio]

Yes, you can get opaque polycarbonate, and it can be ordered in shapes as well as sheets. It's tough but not stiff, so you will almost always see it formed into some sort of a stressed curve to help it maintain it's shape. Early WWII canopies were made of Acrylic (Lucite, Plexiglas) not polycarb (Lexan)since polycarb is an invention of the 50s. By the time there is enough structure for either Polycarb or Acrylic, both weigh about the same by volume, to maintain it's shape it would be substantially heavier than fiberglass. It has to be pretty thick in a horizontal plain just to support it's own weight. Neither of these products are a low density or high stiffness material by any stretch of measurement.

The real solution to a strong lightweight top is carbon fiber, ideally as probably an inner formed piece and an outer formed piece with a Styrofoam fill between the two.

Remember carbon fiber is light because it is very stiff and can maintain it's shape while being very thin. The actual resin that holds it all together weighs about the same as fiberglass by volume. The cost in carbon fiber comes from the fact that it needs to be applied in woven sheets and not simply sprayed into a mold like fiberglass, usually by hand or vacuformed. If you don't care about seeing the underlying weave you could probably get it done for a lot less since the process would need to be way less methodical. The material itself is really not that much more expensive if you are talking handlayed carbon fiber vs. handlayed fiberglass, the fiberglass weave is half the cost but you need more layers to get the same stiffness. But even hand layed fiberglass can be made stronger and lighter than sprayed in (like aftermarket caps), in the case of the original tops molded glass filled polyester.

A handlayed fiberglass (again inner and outer foam filled) top could probably be made of equal toughness and rigidity with half the weight, and in carbon fiber half again. Of coarse all this in any material really requires a mold, which I'm somewhat surprised someone hasn't done long ago.

[Ebstard944]

OK, that makes sense. sounds like you have given this alot of thought. Ive had carbon fiber motorcycle parts that have not stood the UV test of time. Im sure paint would solve that. You would think with todays composet material, there would be a way to do it. You are going to have to make the mold Skorpioskorpio. Ill come down and help you make the top. All the rain here, im stuck inside Oct-May!