Need Help Getting Her On The Ground (Suspension Noob)

[cericd]

So, I've got this 1970 SWB 4x2 C10 that's pretty much in 40+ year old factory condition. I got it because the body looked nice and it is mostly unmolested. Well, it's time to tear into the suspension but I'm a total noob. I've been doing a lot of research on here but I want to be sure I'm headed in the right direction before I order any parts. I see alot of guys doing the suspension multiple times just to end up with what they wanted in the first place.

I'm planning more of a restomod type of build. I want to keep the all-factory look but at a lower ride height. I'm mostly concerned with handling and not having to worry about every little bump or pothole (if that's possible). I like a slight rake like gringoloco's C10. I am planning to run 15x7 and 15x8 rallies until I scrape up the cash for rims. Even then, I don't really want to go bigger than 18"s like on SactoJim's truck (totally dig his stance too). I also like the stance of the Holley Shop Truck. It seems to have a fairly uncomplicated suspension setup. I did notice that they used coilovers in the rear instead of springs and shocks and that the raised the bed a few inches.

Truck Stats:
1970 C10 Fleetside SWB
Rear End - Wider 71-72 (currently 6-lug)
Engine - 1973 307 V-8

After my research I still have these concerns and would like to avoid them by doing things right the first time:
1. Pinion angle and carrier bearing issues (possible fix PB trailing arm crossmember or ECE crossmember with brackets flipped?)
2. Front and rear wheels being centered in the wheel wells (this is a must!)
3. Lower control arms scraping the ground (I've heard that this is the biggest issue since they sit so low)

Any insight on how to do this right the first time or stuff I'm missing is greatly appreciated. I'm ready to get this stuff done.

Thanks

[PBFAB.COM]

Originally Posted by cericd

So, I've got this 1970 SWB 4x2 C10 that's pretty much in 40+ year old factory condition. I got it because the body looked nice and it is mostly unmolested. Well, it's time to tear into the suspension but I'm a total noob. I've been doing a lot of research on here but I want to be sure I'm headed in the right direction before I order any parts. I see alot of guys doing the suspension multiple times just to end up with what they wanted in the first place.

I'm planning more of a restomod type of build. I want to keep the all-factory look but at a lower ride height. I'm mostly concerned with handling and not having to worry about every little bump or pothole (if that's possible). I like a slight rake like gringoloco's C10. I am planning to run 15x7 and 15x8 rallies until I scrape up the cash for rims. Even then, I don't really want to go bigger than 18"s like on SactoJim's truck (totally dig his stance too). I also like the stance of the Holley Shop Truck. It seems to have a fairly uncomplicated suspension setup. I did notice that they used coilovers in the rear instead of springs and shocks and that the raised the bed a few inches.

Truck Stats:
1970 C10 Fleetside SWB
Rear End - Wider 71-72 (currently 6-lug)
Engine - 1973 307 V-8

After my research I still have these concerns and would like to avoid them by doing things right the first time:
1. Pinion angle and carrier bearing issues (possible fix PB trailing arm crossmember or ECE crossmember with brackets flipped?)
2. Front and rear wheels being centered in the wheel wells (this is a must!)
3. Lower control arms scraping the ground (I've heard that this is the biggest issue since they sit so low)

Any insight on how to do this right the first time or stuff I'm missing is greatly appreciated. I'm ready to get this stuff done.

Thanks

What kind of budget will you be working with on the suspension? Also, what skillset do you have? Would you be able to do any fabrication/welding, or mainly looking for out of the box components that you can install?

Nate

[cericd]

Hey Nate, thanks for the response. I'm not sure about the budget. I mean I was originally going to go with the ECE 4/6 drop but then I started seeing stuff about pinion angle issues and lca scraping issues. I kept looking and started seeing your stuff. I certainly like the idea of your trailing arm cross member with it's multiple mounting points. I'm sure I don't have the budget to do a full drop member setup with rack and pinion steering but I'm just trying to figure out what I would need to spend to get my truck set up correctly the first time. I've tried to read up on the subject but it seems there are at least a hundred ways to skin this cat so I figured I'd better make a post so I can get the ball rolling.

My skillset leans more towards computers than mechanical. I wouldn't be able to do any of my own welding/fabrication. I would need more of a bolt on setup if that's possible.

[SCOTI]

Definitely need to know the budget & approx how much drop you want to offer the best recommendations.

Some factory items for the rear can tweaked to get as low or lower than you might need allowing you to spend a little more up front to gain ground clearance.

Porterbuilt would be a great choice if your budget allows.

[cericd]

I understand about needing to know the budget but I'm pretty new to this so coming up with a realistic budget is tough. I would imagine it goes something like this:

In order of Least Drop/Least Desirable Ride to Most Drop/Best Ride

1. Springs all around = X$
2. (Front) springs/spindles & (Rear) springs = X$
3. (Front) springs/spindles & (Rear) springs/c-notch = X$
4. Mild Front & Rear Drop Member = X$
5. Extreme Front & Rear Drop Member - X$

I realize that things like brand of suspension components and specialty items like tubular A-arms and the like also come into play and increase cost. The problem for me is I don't know the value of "X" in my examples above. So, if I say $2000 is my budget, what does that mean? How about $3000? I still have to take other things into consideration i.e. 5-lug swap, front disc swap, brake booster, etc.

As far as how low, these are good examples of what I'd like to acomplish (as long as they can realisticly be driven around).

Gringoloco


SactoJim


Hart_Rod


BucksSS



(I have a feeling that this is probably out of any budget I may have - also I know it's a static drop but I don't know if it's meant to be drive around on the average street)



Also, I know nothing about air ride but I like these:

JWall

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by cericd

I understand about needing to know the budget but I'm pretty new to this so coming up with a realistic budget is tough. I would imagine it goes something like this:

In order of Least Drop/Least Desirable Ride to Most Drop/Best Ride

1. Springs all around = X$
2. (Front) springs/spindles & (Rear) springs = X$
3. (Front) springs/spindles & (Rear) springs/c-notch = X$
4. Mild Front & Rear Drop Member = X$
5. Extreme Front & Rear Drop Member - X$

I realize that things like brand of suspension components and specialty items like tubular A-arms and the like also come into play and increase cost. The problem for me is I don't know the value of "X" in my examples above. So, if I say $2000 is my budget, what does that mean? How about $3000? I still have to take other things into consideration i.e. 5-lug swap, front disc swap, brake booster, etc.As far as how low, these are good examples of what I'd like to acomplish (as long as they can realisticly be driven around).

I can understand the limited knowledge... Everyone starts somewhere.

While you may not know what the 'value' is, if we know the drop you want, suggestions can be made to keep you within/close to your budget, use the best parts possible, & retain the 'driveability'. There's more than one correct way to achieve drop. Sometimes, parts can be tweaked to achieve the drop w/o spending for aftermarket pieces.

From the reference pics, I'm guessing a 4/6 to 5/7 drop is where you want to wind up. Any previous 'lowered vehicle' driving experience?

[cericd]

I don't really have experience driving a lowered vehicle. My daily driver is a Mazda 3 hatchback. It sits pretty low (much lower than a stock truck) and has fairly stiff/sporty suspension. So, I have to be careful of steep inclines, speed bumps and pot holes suck pretty bad. I see some guys expecting their C10 to handle like a Vette or Porsche but I'd be cool if it handled like my Mazda.
Posted via Mobile Device

[cericd]

Oh, and the 2-3k budget I was throwing out there wasn't meant to be sarcastic. They were just numbers. I think at one point I had priced out the ECE 4/6 drop with a 5 lug swap and it came to about 2k or so. Either way if it was 2-3k and I was okay with that, I started thinking is that the best way to go or would that money be better spent on a bagged suspension or some other setup that would better suit my needs.

I mean if we were talking home electronics I would know how to price things and be able to understand all my options. With my truck... not so much. I'm just trying to avoid the "buy it 3 times to get it right" mistake that seems to plague people just starting out in this hobby.

[lolife99]

Personally,... I would do a 4.5/6 static drop.

Work in steps.
Get your disc brake 5-lug swap complete and drop installed,... and drive the crap out of your truck.
Then as time and money allow.
Add a set of Porterbuilt Forward Series a-arms.
(These can be installed with your drop springs.)

Then,... if you ever decide to bag it,... you can make that jump.
Just because an air bag can be purchased for around $50 each,... doesn't meant this is a cheap install.
Your air management can be anything from $50 manual valves, all the way up to Accuairs E-level with the i-level controller option.

Get a good set of brakes on the truck, and the static drop ironed out.
Add a sway bar to the front, and good shocks.
I would go ahead and add a bolt-in c-notch.
Shock relocators and adjustable track bar are a must.

4.5/6 is a good streetable drop.

[cubber]

Good advice here! I started with a static, and ended up bagged. Sometimes I think if I had it to do over, I would just have done a lower static, but man, the bags are cooool! I went with Porterbuilt Stage I front kit, bolt in c-notch, fully adj. trac bar, and manual valves. I probably have close to $2k in that, and I already had disc brakes. If you do a milder setup to start with, you can always alter your course later, like I did. When I decided to bag, I just pulled my drop springs and sold em to a buddy, and my Porterbuilt stuff bolted up in place. Adding bags does add another layer of complication, though, where with a static, it is trouble free after installation.

[SCOTI]

^^^^^^
Both good suggestions....

[cericd]

Hey lolife99 (Keith), I like the idea of starting off simple an then adding components as the need/desire arises. I just didn't want to buy a bunch of stuff that wouldn't work in conjunction with each other or hack into my OEM swb frame without serious forethought.

Thanks for mentioning the PB forward A-arms. I hadn't run across those before. I also looked at the pics of trucks I posted as examples and It appears that most of them don't have their front wheels centered in the wheel well. I guess this is a common issue. I read a post by Nate about his forward A-arms and it said that they almost clear up the centering issue when used in conjunction with the stock uppers but to get it perfectly centered I would need to add his tubular uppers as well.

If I go with a 4.5/6 drop, what's the best way to go about it? 2.5" & 2" springs in the front and 6" springs in the rear? Is this going to cause my rear tires to move forward in the wheel well? Will my lower control arms be too close to the ground to be safely driven? Also, should I do the trailing arm mount flip to correct the pinion angle? What's the most cost effective way to do that? Also, will I need to reroute my exhaust through the center cross member? I need to have new exhaust run anyway.

I really want to get this started so any help with a parts list would certainly be appreciated.

Cubber, I'm going to check out your build so I can get more info on your setup. Thanks for posting.

[SCOTI]

Originally Posted by cericd

Hey lolife99 (Keith), I like the idea of starting off simple an then adding components as the need/desire arises. I just didn't want to buy a bunch of stuff that wouldn't work in conjunction with each other or hack into my OEM swb frame without serious forethought.

Thanks for mentioning the PB forward A-arms. I hadn't run across those before. I also looked at the pics of trucks I posted as examples and It appears that most of them don't have their front wheels centered in the wheel well. I guess this is a common issue. I read a post by Nate about his forward A-arms and it said that they almost clear up the centering issue when used in conjunction with the stock uppers but to get it perfectly centered I would need to add his tubular uppers as well.

If I go with a 4.5/6 drop, what's the best way to go about it? 2.5" & 2" springs in the front and 6" springs in the rear? Is this going to cause my rear tires to move forward in the wheel well? Will my lower control arms be too close to the ground to be safely driven? Also, should I do the trailing arm mount flip to correct the pinion angle? What's the most cost effective way to do that? Also, will I need to reroute my exhaust through the center cross member? I need to have new exhaust run anyway.

I really want to get this started so any help with a parts list would certainly be appreciated.

Cubber, I'm going to check out your build so I can get more info on your setup. Thanks for posting.

What diameter wheels?

If 15" wheels are the the only plan, utilize some 4" spings w/1-1.5" lowering blocks. If larger diameter wheels are in your future plans, a 4" spring w/a 2" block works best. The more spring drop, the less capacity & ride quality....

[lolife99]

Originally Posted by cericd

Hey lolife99 (Keith), I like the idea of starting off simple an then adding components as the need/desire arises.
I just didn't want to buy a bunch of stuff that wouldn't work in conjunction with each other or hack into my OEM swb frame without serious forethought.

Thanks for mentioning the PB forward A-arms.
I hadn't run across those before.
I also looked at the pics of trucks I posted as examples and it appears that most of them don't have their front wheels centered in the wheel well.
I guess this is a common issue.
I read a post by Nate about his forward A-arms and it said that they almost clear up the centering issue when used in conjunction with the stock uppers but to get it perfectly centered I would need to add his tubular uppers as well.

If I go with a 4.5/6 drop, what's the best way to go about it? 2.5" & 2" springs in the front?
Yes

6" springs in the rear?
I would. Then if you want to go lower,... you can add a block.

Is this going to cause my rear tires to move forward in the wheel well?
Not any more noticeable with a static drop.
Bagged trucks with 2" blocks are where is noticeable,... air'd out.

Will my lower control arms be too close to the ground to be safely driven?
No.

Also, should I do the trailing arm mount flip to correct the pinion angle?
No.
Never done the flip on my trucks.

What's the most cost effective way to do that?
Flip the stock trailing arm brackets in the stock trailing arm crossmember.

Also, will I need to reroute my exhaust through the center cross member?
I need to have new exhaust run anyway.
You can. It will help with ground clearance, but not neccessary.

Hope these answrs help.
Like I've said before,... 72BlckButy's truck answers all your questions.
He's been driving it for a couple of years now.

[Calvin D.]

One Question and I want to appologise if this is the wrong place for this but if you have leaf springs then wouldn't you have to switch over to a trailing arm set up to drop 6' and improve ride quality.

[cericd]

Originally Posted by lolife99

Hope these answrs help.
Like I've said before,... 72BlckButy's truck answers all your questions.
He's been driving it for a couple of years now.

Hey Keith, thanks for the Q&A breakdown. Have you seen the same thing as 2500HD in regards to trying to use 6" drop springs with a c-notch?

[lolife99]

Originally Posted by cericd

Hey Keith, thanks for the Q&A breakdown. Have you seen the same thing as 2500HD in regards to trying to use 6" drop springs with a c-notch?

Nope.
I install 6" springs with no c-notch.
Any lower,... I install a notch.
Nate's truck has no notch.

[shawno72]

Good info, subscribed

[Dano69c10]

For drive-ability, don't forget Nate's bolt on body drop.

[shawno72]

Originally Posted by Dano69c10

For drive-ability, don't forget Nate's bolt on body drop.

How much drop does that give the body and how hard is it to install?

[lolife99]

Originally Posted by shawno72

How much drop does that give the body and how hard is it to install?

I don't see this as an option for a truck that doesn't have the Extreme Dropmember.
Sure you could do it,... but the money and work for a 1" drop?

[Calvin D.]

subscribed

good info.

I like the I deal of a parts list and after reading this thread the ideal of going slower makes sinces.

[Dano69c10]

Originally Posted by lolife99

I don't see this as an option for a truck that doesn't have the Extreme Dropmember.
Sure you could do it,... but the money and work for a 1" drop?

lolife,
What I meant was to use the body drop in the addition with other drop options, not as a stand alone...

For example; if you want to run a 3/5 drop, the body drop will make it look like a 4/6 drop. Or if you want to run a 4/6 drop, the body drop will make it look like a 5/7 drop....etc

In all honesty I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to use Nate's 1" body drop by itself. Lots of cheaper ways to go for a 1" drop.

[lolife99]

Originally Posted by Dano69c10

lolife,
What I meant was to use the body drop in the addition with other drop options, not as a stand alone...

For example; if you want to run a 3/5 drop, the body drop will make it look like a 4/6 drop. Or if you want to run a 4/6 drop, the body drop will make it look like a 5/7 drop....etc

In all honesty I don't think anyone would be foolish enough to use Nate's 1" body drop by itself. Lots of cheaper ways to go for a 1" drop.

I understand that.
But I think it's silly for a static dropped truck.

Extreme dropped trucks are already addressing the issues of raising the bed floor and other mods.
Modifying the frame horns on both ends of the truck, modding the core support, clearance issues under the cab, and raising the bed floor and/or supports, and removing all the cab mounts,... all for a static dropped truck, to me,... is foolish.
Plus you will have to address the inner fenders, when the body drops that additional inch.
You may have to notch the back of the cab for the driveshaft also.
I think the $649 could be spent elsewhere.

But the guy running an Extreme Dropmember that wants to lay out on his pinch weld,... I say go for it.
http://www.porterbuiltfabrication.com/?p=348

[2500HD]

I think you may be over thinking this. I have used the ECE kit on 3 or 4 trucks and have never had an issue.

The ECE kit will give you disc, lowered stance and convert the rear to 5 lug. The kit includes everything you need except the consumables (paint, grease, etc) and can broken down into smaller jobs to achieve the results you are looking for. Total cost will be close to 2K.

If you are going to notch the rear, you will need a 4 inch spring and a 2 inch block. If you use a 6 inch sping the track arm will hit the frame before the axle move into the notch area.