Engine rebuild

[Want2Run]

Once the new concrete is poured in my new garage I plan on doing and engine overhaul. Id like to bore it .40 over, and put some new pistons, I figured Keith Black was a good way to go with those? and I figured 202 heads about 72cc-64cc so therefore id have about 11.5-1 compression, Harland sharp roller rockers, Comp Cams Double valve springs, Comp Cams Roller lifters, The motor now has a fairly large cam in it, (never had it out thou) should I still change the cam? and also, I will change the intake even though it is a stock aluminum intake, and all the other small things, Any suggestions or do I have a good list (brand name) to get the more horsepower I crave.

[77ChevySharkBite]

the only thing I can really suggest to you as that it's best to look at your cam that's in it and get the specs on it, make sure with whatever set up you run that it all flows together, because if your cam doesn't match up right you'll still have power but if you get a good one, the gain can be quite nice.

Is it carbed, tbi, or fi? That'll help us out as well. If it's carbed look into also getting a better carb would help too. Distributor and new wires would help too, headers, and mufflers would help too.

As far as name brands I don't know the difference between brands other than prices.

[Want2Run]

I have a Super Coil HEI Mallory distributor, headers, and true turn down flowmasters, and it has a newly rebuilt quadrajet 650 or 750 can't remember which. and I do understand if the cam matches it is much more horse but I'm saying if it does match with what I order should I change it is really what I'm asking.

[77ChevySharkBite]

No if it works with everything you have, and gets you the power you want no need to change it.
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[88Jimmy4x4]

11.5:1 ? On pump gas?
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[77ChevySharkBite]

What's the max you can run on pump gas safely? 10.5:1 or can you push it with an 11:1? I'm not going to try and do it but I would like to know, I know for my motor I want to try and get at least a 10:1.

[xrcr]

10:1 is plenty on pump gas

[Want2Run]

Originally Posted by 77ChevySharkBite

What's the max you can run on pump gas safely? 10.5:1 or can you push it with an 11:1? I'm not going to try and do it but I would like to know, I know for my motor I want to try and get at least a 10:1.

11.5 to 1 will run on pump gas and octane boost that is what my Nova motor started out with.. but no it wont run on pump gas, im not afraid to pay extra for the high octane fuel.

[77ChevySharkBite]

Well I know pump gas varies, but with a 10:1, pump gas meaning running supreme in it right?

[88Jimmy4x4]

10.5:1 is pretty much max
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[LynnJr]

Bore the block as little as is possible.You won't gain much hp or cubic inches on a smallblock chevy by boring it out.You bore it to get rid of the taper and to even up all of the cylinders.
If its a 350 now and you want to feel the gains in the seat of your pants going to a longer stroke crank helps out much more than boring it out.
The next big gain would be a hydraulic roller cam or a set of aftermarket aluminum heads. which also allow you more compression on pump gas.
You also might look into swapping in some new rear end gears.

[wraprail]

Originally Posted by Want2Run

Once the new concrete is poured in my new garage I plan on doing and engine overhaul. Id like to bore it .40 over, and put some new pistons, I figured Keith Black was a good way to go with those? and I figured 202 heads about 72cc-64cc so therefore id have about 11.5-1 compression, Harland sharp roller rockers, Comp Cams Double valve springs, Comp Cams Roller lifters, The motor now has a fairly large cam in it, (never had it out thou) should I still change the cam? and also, I will change the intake even though it is a stock aluminum intake, and all the other small things, Any suggestions or do I have a good list (brand name) to get the more horsepower I crave.

What motor are you starting with? 350? 305?
What year is it? 2 piece rear main? 1 piece?
What heads are you currently running?
72cc-64cc chambers don't equal "about 11.5-1 compression"
What is your budget?

Originally Posted by LynnJr

Bore the block as little as is possible.You won't gain much hp or cubic inches on a smallblock chevy by boring it out.You bore it to get rid of the taper and to even up all of the cylinders.
If its a 350 now and you want to feel the gains in the seat of your pants going to a longer stroke crank helps out much more than boring it out.
The next big gain would be a hydraulic roller cam or a set of aftermarket aluminum heads. which also allow you more compression on pump gas.
You also might look into swapping in some new rear end gears.

Aluminum heads or/and a roller cam will allow more compression on pump gas?
Please explain..

[LynnJr]

The original poster wanted the easiest way to more power.A hydraiulic roller will give him more area under the curve than a hydraulic or flat tappet cam.

The aluminum heads will take more static compression than cast iron before detonation sets in.

I didn't say a roller cam allows for more compression but in actuality it can.
Here is how the cam works. http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...t/viewall.html

Aluminum heads dissipate (get rid of) heat much faster than iron heads. The rapid heat loss from the combustion chamber results in reduced combustion chamber pressures (heat equals pressure); similar to the effect that lowering the compression ratio which lowers cylinder pressure. When switching to aluminum heads you MUST raise the compression ratio to prevent a power loss. This is a good opportunity for our customers to take advantage of our computer calculated compression ratio service. This software assures them of getting the maximum power out of their purchase; it's a no-charge service for our customers.

Here is the link for the aluminum heads.
http://www.hughesengines.com/TechArt...sdoyouneed.php

[LynnJr]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Chevy-350-38...aa4861&vxp=mtr

Here is a set of aluminum bowtie heads on e-bay and when this auction ends he will post another set.You don't need anything over 210 cc's on a truck unless you are really into making power and spinning it up.
On E-Bay you have to read the ads very carefully and you have to watch the shipping charges.It is common to see aluminum heads go for $125 for a complete pair but the shipping is $350.
They set limits on much you can sell per month so some sell low and make it up on the shipping.Nothing wrong with that just a heads up if you will.
They also sell the 3.750 stroke cranks for cheaper than you can have your turned and polished for.Watch the shipping and keep away from the racing cranks as they are usually not as user friendly.
If you go 3.750 remember you will need a new flexplate and front balancer as well.
If your patient and have time to piece one together you can make some very good horsepower for a very reasonable price.
I have been bidding on rods and pistons for 2 months now and have set limits on what I am going to pay and stick to them.If I lose I buy something else I need and wait for another set of what I am after to show up.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRW-SBC-383-...b2d90e&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PRW-SBC-383-...b2d90e&vxp=mtr
This crank is brand new and is $148 to your front door.A machine shop will charge you $135 to turn and polish your old crank and you have to drop it off and pick it up plus tax.With this crank you use standard bearings.

[Want2Run]

[QUOTE=wraprail;6071138]What motor are you starting with? 350? 305?
What year is it? 2 piece rear main? 1 piece?
What heads are you currently running?
72cc-64cc chambers don't equal "about 11.5-1 compression"
What is your budget?



I am saying rough estimate of about 11. not equal exact. it my be little less or a little more but should be around that area, and I am starting with a stock vette 350 (stock as far as I know, other then a large cam) Year is questionable doing more research because the heads seem to be newer then the block from what I can see, like I said its a work in progress its hard to pull a motor out when you can only use a friends garage at this time, but they should be stock heads according to the guy I bought it from.. but that hasn't show reliability yet, so with further research I will let you know. I planned to have concrete already ,but weather has thrown a wrench in my plans. and budget a few grand.

[BigBlocksRule]

Keith Black hypers require special attention to ring gaps.
I had a set for a 383, decided to order some SpeedPros just to check, the KB's were like bricks when compared to the S/P's, much heavier.
Don't get compression too high, particularly with hypers - they shatter when the engine gets into detonation versus forged which generally survive a good bit longer. It doesn't take much of a load to put and engine built on the edge over into detonation. Even with a lumpy cam, 10:1 is probably max.
Go forged. You want more power, you'll want more with a bigger engine. Spray and hypereutectics aren't friends, you'll be looking for another block before long.
Why aren't you stroking it? You'll get more power from more displacement than any other tricks.

[LynnJr]

For what it costs to go through a set of stock heads properly you can buy brand new chevy Vortec's or aluminum heads on e-bay ready to bolt on.

[Want2Run]

Originally Posted by BigBlocksRule

Keith Black hypers require special attention to ring gaps.
I had a set for a 383, decided to order some SpeedPros just to check, the KB's were like bricks when compared to the S/P's, much heavier.
Don't get compression too high, particularly with hypers - they shatter when the engine gets into detonation versus forged which generally survive a good bit longer. It doesn't take much of a load to put and engine built on the edge over into detonation. Even with a lumpy cam, 10:1 is probably max.
Go forged. You want more power, you'll want more with a bigger engine. Spray and hypereutectics aren't friends, you'll be looking for another block before long.
Why aren't you stroking it? You'll get more power from more displacement than any other tricks.

A new motor would be ideal.. ,but the kind of money a new motor is I don't have right now, my 355 in my nova has at least 525 horse, and it is not stroked. but other then those reasons I'd get a big block or a 383.

[Rufton]

I would plug specs in an engine analyzer software program before selecting parts.

[INSIDIOUS '86]

Originally Posted by Want2Run

Once the new concrete is poured in my new garage I plan on doing and engine overhaul. Id like to bore it .40 over, and put some new pistons, I figured Keith Black was a good way to go with those? and I figured 202 heads about 72cc-64cc so therefore id have about 11.5-1 compression, Harland sharp roller rockers, Comp Cams Double valve springs, Comp Cams Roller lifters, The motor now has a fairly large cam in it, (never had it out thou) should I still change the cam? and also, I will change the intake even though it is a stock aluminum intake, and all the other small things, Any suggestions or do I have a good list (brand name) to get the more horsepower I crave.

10:1 compression is pushing the pump gas package without additives. And that's if your on top of your timing and timing curve
The factory aluminum intake has to go. The quadrajet has to go and your heads have to go. Why do you want it .40 overbore? I try and strive for as close to stock bore as possible.

Here's two nice combos. 2.02 fuelie heads and flat top pistons like speed pro hyperutectic and either some good condition stock rods it upgraded with new bolts (not a bad idea) or gm powders metal lt1/lt4 rods with new bolts(500hp6.5krpm)capable and a balance job on the crank. A comp cams 262xe cam or 268 voodoo for more rumble and power. A performer rpm intake with a Holley vac secondary on top. Use a nice clots roller chain and some hardened pushrods connecting to some nice roller rockers and don't get race car roller rockers they just cause you to spend more money and won't give you any return for it. Personally I would just go for comp cam magnum roller tip. And use a stock oil pump with a high pressure spring if you need to. This should net you close to 350-400hp.


Engine two. Here you have a different top end. Get a vortec intake and a Holley 750dbl pumper get some vortec heads and I would suggest having them blended but you don't need too. Have the same pistons and spec 10:1 compression since these are efficient burning heads. Use powdered metal lt1/lt4 rods with upgraded hardware and spec a voodo 268 cam with some good rockers. A cloyes timing Chain and a stock pump again. The vortec top end should net you 45hp at least guaranteed over the other engine I spec'd. I would say this should easily top 400hp. And if you parts match correct should come towards the 450hp side

Those are two combos that if your trans or rear diff aren't good that they will brake sometime under abuse
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[Want2Run]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS '86

10:1 compression is pushing the pump gas package without additives. And that's if your on top of your timing and timing curve
The factory aluminum intake has to go. The quadrajet has to go and your heads have to go. Why do you want it .40 overbore? I try and strive for as close to stock bore as possible.

Here's two nice combos. 2.02 fuelie heads and flat top pistons like speed pro hyperutectic and either some good condition stock rods it upgraded with new bolts (not a bad idea) or gm powders metal lt1/lt4 rods with new bolts(500hp6.5krpm)capable and a balance job on the crank. A comp cams 262xe cam or 268 voodoo for more rumble and power. A performer rpm intake with a Holley vac secondary on top. Use a nice clots roller chain and some hardened pushrods connecting to some nice roller rockers and don't get race car roller rockers they just cause you to spend more money and won't give you any return for it. Personally I would just go for comp cam magnum roller tip. And use a stock oil pump with a high pressure spring if you need to. This should net you close to 350-400hp.


Engine two. Here you have a different top end. Get a vortec intake and a Holley 750dbl pumper get some vortec heads and I would suggest having them blended but you don't need too. Have the same pistons and spec 10:1 compression since these are efficient burning heads. Use powdered metal lt1/lt4 rods with upgraded hardware and spec a voodo 268 cam with some good rockers. A cloyes timing Chain and a stock pump again. The vortec top end should net you 45hp at least guaranteed over the other engine I spec'd. I would say this should easily top 400hp. And if you parts match correct should come towards the 450hp side

Those are two combos that if your trans or rear diff aren't good that they will brake sometime under abuse
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I see what you are saying, I take it you are a Holley man? lol I just took a Holley off because I absolutely hate them, they are good ,but too finicky so I slapped a quadrajet on there until I looked more into carbs, considered a quikfuel they seem to have great reviews but don't know myself how they are. If I have to get a Cam I will go with a comp cam roller, but trying to stay within a smaller budget after I pay for all this concrete now.. but appreciate the setups ill look more into your set ups you got listed for me.

[BigBlocksRule]

^ Aluminum "BOWTIE" heads my @$$, those are Chinese knock-offs, comparable to ProComp - read it in the ad. Your crank link doesn't work, it's probably counterfeit Chinese crap as well.
Cheap ain't cheap if you have to have all the guides honed, ports modded and machined for off center bosses,head bolt holes, etc. and crank turned and trued to work.
And yes, I have experience with some of this junk. I fell for the cheap crap once or twice myself. Many experienced engine builders will run you out of their shop if you show up with this crap.
Cheap ain't good and good ain't cheap. Period. No different now that it's been for years.

[LynnJr]

I was showing the original poster what was available.

On the heads they are the same heads use by Chad Spier and they are good street heads.The machine shop who puts them together has been in business since I was a little kid and its a big shop not a one trick pony.The heads are NOT assembled in china or australia.They are assembled in Bakersfield California by a reputable shop with a long racing history and modern state of the art equipment.Anything Chevy including trucks gets the word "Bowtie" added to it.
For the money they can't be beat.
Yes You can buy cast iron heads for $200 bare without seats and have a kid in Alabama with 6 month experience working for his uncle assemble them with a $300 kit and hope he found any cracks in the now well sunken seats between the valves and hope he hammered the seats in right but with my money I'll buy from a state where you have recourse if something is wrong and a guarantee.

On the crank its a Scat and I mis-linked it but they have been around for quite awhile now.Yes they are chinese but so is 80% of everything at Wal-Mart and 60% of Americans shop there every month.Your television is not made in America and
the cylinder heads in my Chevrolet truck have Hecho en Mexico cast into them.
If your local machine shop is building daily drivers and most are and they won't work on a Scat crank they won't be around long anyway.Yes he can buy a $4000 Wineburg Micro-Polished crank but do you seriously think that is what a 383 chevy in a truck on the street needs?
I have run these cranks and have had zero issues with them.
Yes I have read the posts on the internet were billybob and bubba put a 535 together with 0.125 over pistons after honing the cylinders with a berry hone and a used oil pump off the tractor and no machining or balancing work at all.They then tried spinning it at 14,000 rpm like a Reher-Morrison engine only to blow it up.I wouldn't blame that on Scat would you?

Here is a Chad Spier engine build-up for a smallblock chevy street engine running on pump gas.Notice which crank he is using in his build.


383 Chevy,
11.1:1 CR
SRP Pro series flat top pistons
Scat 4130 crank
Oliver 6" rods
UD Harold Solid roller... 255/263 @.050 .640"in/exh
Crower HIPPO lifters
Lunati ROller ROckers- 1.65int/1.6exh
Pro-Filer 210s done by Chad Speier ( 2.08/1.60 "econo" ported")
Holley 300-25 Strip Dominator intake ( gasket matched)
JDR performance carb (820-840cfm) 1.455" venturi x 1.75" baseplate
2" HVH Super Sucker spacer

Keep in mind, this is a pump gas street/strip motor. The dyno test was run on 93 octane. .

588hp @ 6500-6900 (varied by 1-hp(587) through 6900)
514ft/lb @ 5000

For a truck engine with unported heads I would cut the compression a half point and use a more driver friendly cam.

[wraprail]

Everyone knows that Goodwrench Hecho en Mexico motors/ heads are total garbage.
Just like parts made in china..
Suprised you don't know this since you drive one.
Known Chad for many years. Great guy.
Thanks for the info on aluminum heads in relation to cr.
What site did you copy it from?
Later

[LynnJr]

Wraprail
I included the links so there wouldn't be any confusion.When you click on the link it will take you to all the sources.I did this to avoid the confusion of a relatively new guy posting on a good ole boys forum.
I visited a new forum recently and was told new people without 5,000 posts can't be trusted.

I also copied Chad Spiers post above directly and it says he uses Profilers made in australia the same as the heads I linked the OP to.
I didn't think Chad was the kind of guy who would recommend a head on the internet then tell you his buddy/friend that they are really junk.I don't think your friend is doing himself any favors by telling different people different stories.

Maybe you could ask Chad if that was a misprint or he was using different heads and deceiving the rest of us? He posts this same stuff on 1320 dot com Yellow Bullet and Drag Race Results.Boy are those racers in for a surprise now that you let the cat out of the bag.

I am also surprised Chad posted that engine used a Scat chinese crank and has told you and everybody else that they are also junk and that everybody knows it?

I don't know who to trust anymore but I certainly appreciate you letting me know what these top guns really think!!!!!!!!

I know David Reher uses chinese rods as well and when you call they tell you that and actually sell them.
I was building a nice 406 and called Reher Morrison to ask what they put in their Super Series Small Blocks. He said "Scat rods. They're $XXX. You want a set?"

Imagine my surprise to find out on this forum about trucks that they are all junk and everybody knows it but they weren't telling me

I guy would think Lee Shepard just turned over in his grave.
I guess it just goes to show us that these big name race engine and head builders tell everyone a different story and really think the parts they use are all junk.

Thanks for letting me know what these big names are actually saying.