Ultra massive oil leak from filter - The 1947 - Present Chevrolet & GMC Truck Message Board Network

Maxian · 08-07-2013, 11:55 PM

Just fired up my 454 for the first time.
Was a supposedly a fresh engine and good runner with a bad cam. Engine had very little miles and it showed.
I installed a new cam and went through engine and all looked good.
Here's the issues which may or may not be related.
#1)
While priming engine with cordless drill it was pegging my cheesy oil pressure guage. A very, very slow speed would give me 40-50 pounds and full power on the drill would peg guage, which I'm guessing would equate to 140+ pounds.
#2)
As soon as engine fires it blows oil out the top of oil filter ( between filter and block ). I'm talking losing 4 or 5 quarts of oil in seconds.
Checked filter. It was loose. Thought I found problem. Cranked filter down and fired engine. Ran for 2 seconds and the oil started pouring out again. Not a double gasket.
I don't remember taking adapter off so I have no info on whether it's loose or bad. Going to try and attach a picture.
You guys are awesome.
Thanks for any input.
Brad

P.S.
Cuz my wife wanted it pink

mmiddle · 08-08-2013, 12:43 AM

40-50 PSI is not unusual priming the engine. Cold oil/cold engine/blocked passages from no rotation.
But, blowing out the top of the filter makes me wonder if the pressure relief valve on the pump is stuck. Did you install a new pump? Is it a Melings pump? if not put a Melings in it.
Are you using a A/C PF35 filter or equililant/

Maxian · 08-08-2013, 01:17 AM

I'm talking 40-50 pounds of oil pressure with the drill turning at a crawl.
As far as pump goes it looked new when I had pan off. If I remember right it had a Mellings tag on it. Took off to clean since engine had been sitting. All looked good.
Using a new NAPA filter. Gold series.

y5mgisi · 08-08-2013, 01:48 AM

Something is plugged.

marvgarr68 · 08-08-2013, 02:14 AM

Probably high volume pump with new engine oil pressure will be through the roof. If you don't want to pull pan and change oil pump to standard run a k&n oil filter. Also if you have a high volume pump and you turn it at high rpm you will suck air in a stock oil pan. K&n has high pressure handling can get it at Napa.
Posted via Mobile Device

Longhorn 70 · 08-08-2013, 11:49 AM

Are you sure you have the right filter? BPO filters have a different gasket diameter than Chevy...maybe someone mixed up a box???

BrianG · 08-08-2013, 12:52 PM

I know this may seem too basic, but check to make sure that an old gasket from the previouis oil filter did not get stuck on the block when the old oil filter was removed. I see from your picture that it isn't there now, but perhaps it came off with your new filter. I have had this happen, it was a fresh rebuild, and blew out going down the road. Lost enough so quickly that I had to tear it apart again. This is the reason why its always important to put some oil in the seal when installing a new filter. Prior to this, I wondered if it was really necessary. You can bet I always do now. The old gasket stuck, and I didn't check when putting the new one on. The oil must have squirted out between the two gaskets.

Might not be your issue, but easy enough to check.

BrianG · 08-08-2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianG

I know this may seem too basic, but check to make sure that an old gasket from the previouis oil filter did not get stuck on the block when the old oil filter was removed. I see from your picture that it isn't there now, but perhaps it came off with your new filter. I have had this happen, it was a fresh rebuild, and blew out going down the road. Lost enough so quickly that I had to tear it apart again. This is the reason why its always important to put some oil in the seal when installing a new filter. Prior to this, I wondered if it was really necessary. You can bet I always do now. The old gasket stuck, and I didn't check when putting the new one on. The oil must have squirted out between the two gaskets.

Might not be your issue, but easy enough to check.

Oops... sorry, guess you already said it wasn't a double gasket

Maxian · 08-08-2013, 01:50 PM

Took adapter off. No cracks and valve works fine.
Something is causing an extreme amount of pressure.
I tightened it beyond belief with a wrench last night and it lasted less than a second before oil started pouring out. Went to take filter off and it was hand loose.
Could it be just a bad oil filter ??
I can't see how though, seems like a simple device.
Valve train is getting oiled, I know that from priming engine.
Oil is getting into filter, but not getting back into block ( my guess anyway ) so something from the filter and beyond must be plugged ????

Thanks

cdowns · 08-08-2013, 02:23 PM

simple things are hard to outthink

Longhorn 70 · 08-08-2013, 05:01 PM

Many years ago Purolator had problems with filters like this. You may want to just try a different filter. Maybe a different brand.

**john** · 08-08-2013, 05:12 PM

I had a 454 do the same thing. New oil pump had a stuck pressure relief valve.

Maxian · 08-08-2013, 06:17 PM

That's what I narrowed it down to.
Pulling pan now.

**special-K** · 08-08-2013, 10:10 PM

Did you try another filter? I had one leak between the steel rim and the tin canister as bad as you describe.

PatrickGMC70 · 08-09-2013, 09:00 AM

I sure would try a new filter before I dropped the oil pan.
Posted via Mobile Device

volksworld · 08-09-2013, 09:09 AM

the fact that a fresh engine wiped out a cam sounds like lack of oil...when you pull pan to change pump take a look at the bearings

68gmsee · 08-09-2013, 10:00 AM

I've been driving vehicle for over 50 years and I have had cross-threaded filters and even a cross-threaded filter adapter, but never had a filter do what this one is doing. I will have to agree with the blocked passageway theory.

Oil goes from pump to the filter and on to the galleries. Seems to me something is blocking or restricting the flow beyond the filter. Path of least resistance is the filter and/or rubber seals at that point.

**special-K** · 08-09-2013, 10:05 AM

I agree it could be a blocked passage or pump relief. But,why wouldn't you try another filter 1st? It probably is a blocked passage and that starved the top-end,which would wipe the cam. I think now we know why this "fresh" engine got sold.

68gmsee · 08-09-2013, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by special-K

I agree it could be a blocked passage or pump relief. But,why wouldn't you try another filter 1st? It probably is a blocked passage and that starved the top-end,which would wipe the cam. I think now we know why this "fresh" engine got sold.

I think he checked the adapter and put a new filter and it did it again. I wonder if a head gasket was cut wrong blocking the galley passageway or even the wrong head gasket. I'm not even sure that could be done, though.

GASoline71 · 08-09-2013, 10:30 AM

Why keep trying to use the same filter? Get a different one. Even if it's the same brand.

I would be very leary of running an engine that had a prior cam failure that you have no clue of the condition of the internals, or if it was even cleaned out properly. It takes a complete tear down, and a cleaning like you wouldn't believe to get the massive amounts of metal flakes out of the engine.

Gary

pumpkin · 08-09-2013, 10:45 AM

sounds like metal from the cam has caused the preasure releif in the oil pump to stick closed. All the metal from the cam will grind all the bearings and there mating surfaces. I have yet to see an engine with a wiped out cam do more than a few thousand miles before the mains and rod bearings are knocking, or a rod poking out through the oil pan.

Maxian · 08-09-2013, 11:34 AM

Hey guys,
Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated.
Couple comments,
The person I got engine from has been my best friend for 25 years so I knew it wasn't any form of deception. I saw this run at the track personally which is why it baffled me so much.
The other friend is an idiot though. Although he is very talented at building an engine, he couldn't break in a cam if his life depended on it. Once I noticed the bad cam I knew instantly who built it.
Lol.
Anyway, before I installed engine I took it apart and went through it because it had been sitting for about 10 years. The engine looked like it was built yesterday, all new parts, bearing were perfect. Money was dumped in this engine by way of heads/rods/pistons etc.
That's why when I primed engine and pegged gauge with cordless drill I didn't think to much about the oil pressure. Figured gauge was bad.
Everything led to the oil pump, which was new also, but the only available option.
Dropped pan, pulled oil pump which looked like it just came out of the box, and opened it up.
Holy cow, the inside looked like it was pulled up from the Titanic. The 2 gears were fine, but the valve area was rusted beyond belief.
So, somewhere along the line the engine had water sitting in it or condensation over the years rusted it up.
Weird because no other signs of water.
So that's what the problem was, the oil pump.
I was gonna change it too as I always do when going through an engine, but the known mileage and inside condition talked me out of it.
Lesson learned.

Thanks for all your thoughts

BrianG · 08-09-2013, 03:11 PM

Maybe I missed it, but I went back through the posts and still don't see it???

So was the cam bad in THIS motor? I understand that there must have been water in part of the pump at some time, but the posts about the cam have me confused.

I'm just asking because I was following the thread and wanted to know the outcome (to store it away in that big empty file cabinet above my neck).

Thanks!

Maxian · 08-09-2013, 11:17 PM

I went through engine strictly because it had been sitting. Upon going through it I noticed the cam had a bad lobe. Don't know why I mentioned it since it didn't have anything to do with the issue.
They built it for a dirt track car but didn't like the way the big block felt in the F-body car ( nose heavy ) and pulled it after a couple weekends. They didn't even know it went bad.
Sometime between them pulling it out and me buying it water must have gotten into engine deep enough to cover the bottom of oil pump.
Other theory is just plain condensation. Having a day with a 50 degree variance in a 24 hour period is not uncommon so I'm going with condensation.
This engine looked exactly like it should inside after only a few hours run time.
Spotless.
Now we all know a stuck oil pump will create 2 billion pounds of oil pressure instantly.

08-08-2013, 01:17 AM	#3
Maxian Registered User Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Az Posts: 26	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter I'm talking 40-50 pounds of oil pressure with the drill turning at a crawl. As far as pump goes it looked new when I had pan off. If I remember right it had a Mellings tag on it. Took off to clean since engine had been sitting. All looked good. Using a new NAPA filter. Gold series.

08-08-2013, 01:48 AM	#4
y5mgisi Second Chance Program Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,642	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter Something is plugged. __________________ 90 Chevy Suburban 2500 5.3 swap/th400/np241/14bltSF/10blt. 77 C20 crew cab Silverado. 396/th400. In work.

08-08-2013, 02:14 AM	#5
marvgarr68 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: kingman az Posts: 573	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter Probably high volume pump with new engine oil pressure will be through the roof. If you don't want to pull pan and change oil pump to standard run a k&n oil filter. Also if you have a high volume pump and you turn it at high rpm you will suck air in a stock oil pan. K&n has high pressure handling can get it at Napa. Posted via Mobile Device

08-08-2013, 11:49 AM	#6
Longhorn 70 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Chandler AZ Posts: 1,149	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter Are you sure you have the right filter? BPO filters have a different gasket diameter than Chevy...maybe someone mixed up a box??? __________________ 1970 Longhorn, Front Disc, 350/4 bolt, 882 heads, HEI, Edelbrock, 700R4, HO-52/4.11. 1996 Corvette, Collector Roadster, LT4, 396, 450RWHP, 6sp, 4.11/Dana44/posi 5 point roll bar And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. Gal 6:9

08-08-2013, 12:52 PM	#7
BrianG Registered User Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oakley, Michigan Posts: 735	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter I know this may seem too basic, but check to make sure that an old gasket from the previouis oil filter did not get stuck on the block when the old oil filter was removed. I see from your picture that it isn't there now, but perhaps it came off with your new filter. I have had this happen, it was a fresh rebuild, and blew out going down the road. Lost enough so quickly that I had to tear it apart again. This is the reason why its always important to put some oil in the seal when installing a new filter. Prior to this, I wondered if it was really necessary. You can bet I always do now. The old gasket stuck, and I didn't check when putting the new one on. The oil must have squirted out between the two gaskets. Might not be your issue, but easy enough to check.

08-07-2013, 11:55 PM	#1
Maxian Registered User Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Az Posts: 26	Ultra massive oil leak from filter Just fired up my 454 for the first time. Was a supposedly a fresh engine and good runner with a bad cam. Engine had very little miles and it showed. I installed a new cam and went through engine and all looked good. Here's the issues which may or may not be related. #1) While priming engine with cordless drill it was pegging my cheesy oil pressure guage. A very, very slow speed would give me 40-50 pounds and full power on the drill would peg guage, which I'm guessing would equate to 140+ pounds. #2) As soon as engine fires it blows oil out the top of oil filter ( between filter and block ). I'm talking losing 4 or 5 quarts of oil in seconds. Checked filter. It was loose. Thought I found problem. Cranked filter down and fired engine. Ran for 2 seconds and the oil started pouring out again. Not a double gasket. I don't remember taking adapter off so I have no info on whether it's loose or bad. Going to try and attach a picture. You guys are awesome. Thanks for any input. Brad P.S. Cuz my wife wanted it pink Attached Images

08-08-2013, 12:43 AM	#2
mmiddle Registered User Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Forestburg, Texas Posts: 659	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter 40-50 PSI is not unusual priming the engine. Cold oil/cold engine/blocked passages from no rotation. But, blowing out the top of the filter makes me wonder if the pressure relief valve on the pump is stuck. Did you install a new pump? Is it a Melings pump? if not put a Melings in it. Are you using a A/C PF35 filter or equililant/ __________________ Mark Jesus is the Way! 2003 2500HD CCLB Duramax/Ali (Clifford) 2014 2SS/RS black on black Camaro (Betty) 2006 Pontiac SOLSTICE silver/black (Lula-Bell) 1970 C/10 Short Wide (Peggy) 1964 C/10 Short Step (Hambone) RIP Jimmy Hamilton Thank you for the trucks

08-08-2013, 01:50 PM	#9
Maxian Registered User Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Az Posts: 26	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter Took adapter off. No cracks and valve works fine. Something is causing an extreme amount of pressure. I tightened it beyond belief with a wrench last night and it lasted less than a second before oil started pouring out. Went to take filter off and it was hand loose. Could it be just a bad oil filter ?? I can't see how though, seems like a simple device. Valve train is getting oiled, I know that from priming engine. Oil is getting into filter, but not getting back into block ( my guess anyway ) so something from the filter and beyond must be plugged ???? Thanks

08-08-2013, 02:23 PM	#10
cdowns Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: daytonabeach Posts: 22,956	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter simple things are hard to outthink __________________ 71c-10 350/2004r/4:11 lowered3/4 longbed/dead by hurricane MEANING OF DEATH::::: SOMEBODY ELSE GETS YOUR STUFF DONT BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU THINK TAKE MY ADVISE;I DON'T USE IT ANYWAY

08-08-2013, 05:01 PM	#11
Longhorn 70 Registered User Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Chandler AZ Posts: 1,149	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter Many years ago Purolator had problems with filters like this. You may want to just try a different filter. Maybe a different brand. __________________ 1970 Longhorn, Front Disc, 350/4 bolt, 882 heads, HEI, Edelbrock, 700R4, HO-52/4.11. 1996 Corvette, Collector Roadster, LT4, 396, 450RWHP, 6sp, 4.11/Dana44/posi 5 point roll bar And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. Gal 6:9

08-08-2013, 05:12 PM	#12
john member #16 Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Yuba City Ca. Posts: 3,618	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter I had a 454 do the same thing. New oil pump had a stuck pressure relief valve. __________________ john http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showgroups.php board vendors http://www.flickr.com/photos/1745471...7602865984234/

08-08-2013, 06:17 PM	#13
Maxian Registered User Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Az Posts: 26	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter That's what I narrowed it down to. Pulling pan now.

08-08-2013, 10:10 PM	#14
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,851	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter Did you try another filter? I had one leak between the steel rim and the tin canister as bad as you describe. __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~

08-09-2013, 09:00 AM	#15
PatrickGMC70 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Parkville, MD Posts: 163	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter I sure would try a new filter before I dropped the oil pan. Posted via Mobile Device

08-09-2013, 09:09 AM	#16
volksworld Registered User Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: formerly NY currentlyNC Posts: 390	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter the fact that a fresh engine wiped out a cam sounds like lack of oil...when you pull pan to change pump take a look at the bearings __________________ 1970 short step c10 leaf spring 454



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08-09-2013, 10:00 AM	#17
68gmsee Active Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Centrally located between Houston, Austin and Waco. BCS area. Posts: 7,947	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter I've been driving vehicle for over 50 years and I have had cross-threaded filters and even a cross-threaded filter adapter, but never had a filter do what this one is doing. I will have to agree with the blocked passageway theory. Oil goes from pump to the filter and on to the galleries. Seems to me something is blocking or restricting the flow beyond the filter. Path of least resistance is the filter and/or rubber seals at that point. __________________ 68 GMC 250/3 speed Saginaw p/b p/s 69 Chevy 350/350 currently in pieces still lookin for a cab 06 Trailblazer I just want a vehicle that I can work on, that won't talk to me, leave error msgs or keep track of how I drive...

08-09-2013, 10:05 AM	#18
special-K Special Order Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mt Airy, MD Posts: 85,851	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter I agree it could be a blocked passage or pump relief. But,why wouldn't you try another filter 1st? It probably is a blocked passage and that starved the top-end,which would wipe the cam. I think now we know why this "fresh" engine got sold. __________________ "BUILDING A BETTER WAY TO SERVE THE USA"......67/72......"The New Breed" GMC '67 C1500 Wideside Super Custom SWB: 327/M22/3.42 posi.........."The '67" (project) GMC '72 K2500 Wideside Sierra Custom Camper: 350/TH350/4.10 Power-Lok..."The '72" (rolling) Tim "Don't call me a redneck. I'm a rough cut country gentleman" R.I.P. ~ East Side Low Life ~ El Jay ~ 72BLUZ ~ Fasteddie69 ~ Ron586 ~ 67ChevyRedneck ~ Grumpy Old Man ~

08-09-2013, 10:45 AM	#21
pumpkin Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: East Sooke B.C. Canada Posts: 543	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter sounds like metal from the cam has caused the preasure releif in the oil pump to stick closed. All the metal from the cam will grind all the bearings and there mating surfaces. I have yet to see an engine with a wiped out cam do more than a few thousand miles before the mains and rod bearings are knocking, or a rod poking out through the oil pan.

08-09-2013, 11:34 AM	#22
Maxian Registered User Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Az Posts: 26	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter Hey guys, Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated. Couple comments, The person I got engine from has been my best friend for 25 years so I knew it wasn't any form of deception. I saw this run at the track personally which is why it baffled me so much. The other friend is an idiot though. Although he is very talented at building an engine, he couldn't break in a cam if his life depended on it. Once I noticed the bad cam I knew instantly who built it. Lol. Anyway, before I installed engine I took it apart and went through it because it had been sitting for about 10 years. The engine looked like it was built yesterday, all new parts, bearing were perfect. Money was dumped in this engine by way of heads/rods/pistons etc. That's why when I primed engine and pegged gauge with cordless drill I didn't think to much about the oil pressure. Figured gauge was bad. Everything led to the oil pump, which was new also, but the only available option. Dropped pan, pulled oil pump which looked like it just came out of the box, and opened it up. Holy cow, the inside looked like it was pulled up from the Titanic. The 2 gears were fine, but the valve area was rusted beyond belief. So, somewhere along the line the engine had water sitting in it or condensation over the years rusted it up. Weird because no other signs of water. So that's what the problem was, the oil pump. I was gonna change it too as I always do when going through an engine, but the known mileage and inside condition talked me out of it. Lesson learned. Thanks for all your thoughts

08-09-2013, 03:11 PM	#23
BrianG Registered User Join Date: May 2011 Location: Oakley, Michigan Posts: 735	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter Maybe I missed it, but I went back through the posts and still don't see it??? So was the cam bad in THIS motor? I understand that there must have been water in part of the pump at some time, but the posts about the cam have me confused. I'm just asking because I was following the thread and wanted to know the outcome (to store it away in that big empty file cabinet above my neck). Thanks!

08-09-2013, 11:17 PM	#24
Maxian Registered User Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Az Posts: 26	Re: Ultra massive oil leak from filter I went through engine strictly because it had been sitting. Upon going through it I noticed the cam had a bad lobe. Don't know why I mentioned it since it didn't have anything to do with the issue. They built it for a dirt track car but didn't like the way the big block felt in the F-body car ( nose heavy ) and pulled it after a couple weekends. They didn't even know it went bad. Sometime between them pulling it out and me buying it water must have gotten into engine deep enough to cover the bottom of oil pump. Other theory is just plain condensation. Having a day with a 50 degree variance in a 24 hour period is not uncommon so I'm going with condensation. This engine looked exactly like it should inside after only a few hours run time. Spotless. Now we all know a stuck oil pump will create 2 billion pounds of oil pressure instantly.

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