Mig welder question

[vht]

Is anyone using a Harbor Freight mig welder? I know there is better out there, I'd have a Miller if I could, but mine died, Holbart 140, and I was looking at their 190 I believe it is. I know a couple of guys that have them and say they work great. A friend has built 10 cars with the 1 he has. These lat couple of mths I have had to spend twice what I have made, plus through good old Xmas in there also, so I thought I could pick 1 of these up and finish my frame. With the 20% discount it wouldn't be but around $200 or so. Later I'm going to get the Holbart 190 from Tractor Supply. I figure then I could set the HF one up with flux core for welding outside and on crap that is a little rusty or whatever.

[Russell Ashley]

I don't know anything about HF welders but I do know a thing or two about being short on money, LOL. My opinion on this is that $200 would go a long way toward the purchase of the welder you really want. I'll admit that I'm a little anal when it comes to buying tools and usually my tools are a lot higher quality than my skills to use them, but I've never regretted buying good tools.
My opinion is that I'd save the $200 until I could get what I want but you will have to make the final decision. You might check CL for a used one. I see welders often on the ATL CL and sometimes the seller says it's never been used, or used only a few times.

[dwcsr]

Take a look at HTP www.usaweld.com. I recently needed to replace my lincoln 175Plus and looked at all of them. I tried the HTP MIG 2400 because it had a return it if I didn't like it policy. It works great at much less than a miller or lincoln.

[57chevyman]

my experience with harbor freight is that the stuff is cheap and not made well. but you may be able to pay $20 extra for their "no questions asked replacement warranty"

youre probably better off getting better welder and pay for it. go for the cheap welding helmet at HF tho

[Hogger54]

I have their 90 amp welder. After you get some Lincoln wire, new tips, and a new ground clamp, it works pretty well for small projects. I would think with the same upgrades on the bigger one, you should be fine.

[Donaldo]

I suggest saving and getting a good welder instead of 'making do' with a inadequate duty cycle wanna be - I also prefer using a sheilding gas 75/25% mix, makes for a lot cleaner finish than flux cored splatter. I have Miller units and always will. Seems like there are usually units offered on Craigslist from time to time -

Good luck, Don

[vht]

I only use flux on rusty stuff or if I have to weld out in the wind. I may just go with the Hobart 190. No more than I weld anymore I can't see springing for a miller.

[1958Warrior]

I know all about being on a budget, I would try to get your friend to come help out with finishing the frame, buy him a new spool of wire and some good beer. Id try to get the best bang for the buck.
I love my Hobart (Miller same company) 190 , I upgraded from my Craftsman 125, it was made by Century, but had replacement parts available ,had a Tweco gun ECT.

HF only has only expendables available like tips and nozzles, from what I've seen nothing else . If you do go with HF definitely get the warranty.

I found my Hobart new in the unopened box on CL for $450. I opened it to make sure it wasn't a microwave filled with bricks or something like that . Guy had 5+ brand new plasma cutters, I didn't ask how he got them.

Before I found my deal , I was real close to pulling the trigger on a used CL Hobart 175 for $350 .
Tractor supply usually has coupons for 10% off=$70 off

[S10Fan]

I have a Hobart 135 and love it, built my 50 with it.

Just a note about welders in general. Make sure your welder is getting good clean current. What I mean is avoid using extension cords or cheap small gauge extension cords. If your welder is starving for current your welds aren't going to penetrate like they need to. I have the luxury of 125 amp service to my garage with 30 amp outlets on either end of the building dedicated to my welder, makes a big difference.

[Angryman117]

Save your money for a better welder, trust me. I have tried the HF welders, while they do the job I find my Hobart 140 to be a way better welder. Currently rebuilding the cab for my 47 and it works great.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by Angryman117

Save your money for a better welder, trust me. I have tried the HF welders, while they do the job I find my Hobart 140 to be a way better welder. Currently rebuilding the cab for my 47 and it works great.

Agree. Save the money and get a better welder to start with. One less thing to worry about in my opinion. I have a Hobart 180 and love it.

[1958Warrior]

S10Fan, is right about the extension cords , my Craftsman 125 would do pretty decent in the garage but out in the driveway where I was going to be doing the majority of the welding it just didn't have the voltage, with the extension cord, that + it only had a 1/8" gas line hookup on it so very little shielding gas on top of it. I could've made a better xt-cord for it but that would've only solved 1/2 the problem,+ it was at its max setting. I still have it good for the sheet metal work with small wire in the garage.

[mr48chev]

One more vote for save your money for a better welder. If you just have to have a welder right now and only have 200 budgeted to spend to finish the frame and have 220 power in your shop or within reach get an old Lincoln 225 stick welder for somewhere between 100 and 200 and use it to weld the frame. The younger guys only know mig and tig but us older guys welded our frames and heavier stuff for a lot of years with stick welders and got along fine. A bit more clean up than a mig but you won't worry about the welds holding as you might with an HF cheapie.

When I built my T bucket in the early 70's I didn't own a decent welder only a little 110 Monkey Wards quasi welder that used special sticks with a "starter" on them. I would tack stuff together and then take it to the welding shop to be welded or take it down the street to my friends garage where he welded it with his Lincoln 225. that includes my frame for my T bucket. The cases of Budweiser that I hauled to his garage to pay for getting things welded probably cost more than if I had taken it all to the welding shop though.

[vht]

I'm looking at a Holbart 190 from tractor supply. It'll weld up to 5/16 so rear end brackets won't be a problem. I would still like to have a cheap 1 for fluw core. People drag in some pretty nasty stuff and it's easier to weld some of this with flux instead of gringing and cleaning for a hr.

[Dan in Pasadena]

I have a Hobart 140 I bought used but lightly from a friend for I think $300. It had the regulator but I had to go buy .023 wire and a bottle for the ArCO2 gas. That WAS pricey but only the first time because I had to purchase the bottle. Refills will be much less expensive. I've got nothing but praise for how it works, even with a lame guy at the controls....me!

[Kabwe]

Metal does not have to be super clean for mig welding. No you should not weld over rust but hitting rusty metal with a wire wheel in most cases will suffice. Mig welding is pretty forgiving. Where Flux core really comes into play is welding outside. You don't have to worry bout the wind blowing the gas away and getting contamination in your weld.

Tig is another story the metal has to be clean.

[_Ogre]

most of this was welded with fluxcore; lincoln weldpak100 110v welder



don't discount fluxcore welders. home depot has the weldpak 140 for $269
had my weldpak 100 for 10 years, never have run out of gas, never failed to weld either
also have never run up on the 30% duty cycle limit

[vht]

I built 2 drag cars, full shassis, with flux core. Nothing wrong with that. You get a little splatter, flux is hotter so you can weld thicker stuff.

[Kabwe]

Lets see those flux core welds and the metal finish on sheetmetal before filler or primer. Anything can look good in filler, paint and primer, but lets see it in bare metal and metal finished.
Mig welded panel.






No filler needed on this fender just epoxy primer and high fill primer.


There is a reason why body and paint guys tell you to mig weld with gas on sheetmetal. I agree you can weld with fluxcore if your goal is to just get to pieces to stick together. An experienced welder may also be able to do a decent job with fluxcore on sheetmetal. But a newbe is going to be frustrated and that is just the truth. Frist off mig is a hard bead and fluxcore is even harder. Heat warps and you will get some warpage while welding. The answer to the warpage is to hammer on dolly. Hammering on a mig bead is hard enough I don't need the headache of a fluxcore bead. Newbe should get some gas and they will not regret it. I use to install clip with fluxcore and it done a fine job, but it does not compare to welding with gas. I also use to stick weld clips then went to fluxcore, then to mig and now I love tig. I could do without my tig but I would be lost without a mig welder its just so versatile. If a newbe was asking me about welding I will always steer them to mig and gas because the welds look nicer and that can keep them motivated, and practicing. I would never touch sheetmetal with fluxcore though I have in the past. Actually once you get gas you will never look back.

This car and bike were all mig welded. Well the frame on the bike was tig welded.lol

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by Kabwe

Lets see those flux core welds and the metal finish on sheetmetal before filler or primer.

you've called me out before on fluxcore welding. yes you have to grind, no one can do a grind free sheet metal weld.
i grind all of my welds; mig or fluxcore. i just have to grind fluxcore more
fluxcore welding for thicker metal is better than mig, it penetrates better, it's cheaper. oem's use it for lots of heavy welding.
it's not ideal for sheet metal, but the op was asking about a harbor fright mig welder.
i'd choose my lincoln welpak over harbor fright mig any day.

fluxcore welded. no pre-shaped patch panels or cut outs here. 22 ga trunk frame to 18 ga exhaust tubing pieces to 16 ga bed sides. 22 ga with fluxcore can be a pain.





this is what the curve is... exhaust tubing quartered for the radius, pie cut for the bends



fluxcore mustII x-member and boxed frame





more boxed frame and trans x-member



c-notch, boxed frame



more fluxcore

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

you've called me out before on fluxcore welding.

Never called you out before but I call you out now.lol But all in good fun of course.

You are always pushing fluxcore and its just not ideal for sheetmetal period, but you already said that. I see we agree.lol Its easy to weld a radius or on the end of a panel without warping a panel but when you get to flat center of a panel is a different story so lets see that. Welding always cause distortion in those cases you need to work the weld area. By the way with the welder in the right hand fluxcore does not have any better penetration than mig with gas or vise versa. Now you can weld thicker metal with a fluxcore than you can with gas but that is not the process that is the limitations of the machine. What I'm saying is you can weld on frames with a 120 volt mig using fluxcore wire not problem. But your penetration is no better then mine with a 220 mig using gas. You are correct about the expense my machine cost more. Plus I have more consumables such as gas, you only have to worry about wire. But I think its worth it.lol

As far as the expense of gas? Mig gas will last a long time, months even with lots of welding. I weld a lot so I upgraded my bottle to 80 and with heavy welding I only have to refill at the most every 6 months. Now with tig it goes through gas due to post and pre flow and I have a 120 bottle and I have to refill way more often than with mig.

Like I said earlier a guy with experience may be able to do a decent job with fluxcore on sheetmetal but its still not ideal for sheetmetal and metal finishing. Most newbe's will get frustrated with fluxcore. All I'm saying is mig with gas is the better option. Anything can be done but what is better is what I recommend to newbes. What is the better chance of success. I love tig welding sheetmetal but let's face it that is a different skill set and way more expensive than a mig, and its not an option for most newbe's. Any decent mig machine will come with the option for gas so its really a none issue because you have the option anyway. They can use fluxcore or gas, I believe once they see the difference the will prefer gas. Most do who have tried both.

Flat panel area




I don't grind my welds on frames for the most part. I do grind them if I'm boxing a frame I also bevel the pieces before hand if I will be grinding smooth.

[Donaldo]

The high quality of the metalwork by some of the artists here is hard to compare to - but there is going to be 'clean up' on almost any sheetmetal welds. I do think the gas sheilded welds are better, easier to control and have less to clean up. As for welding rusty metal, that just ads to the contamination within the weldment, not a good thing any way you look at it - it's a promise of premature failure.

I was once told that "anyone with a grinder can weld"....not so.

Don

[mr48chev]

One thing we didn't cover and that is sooner or later every welder that actually gets used a bunch will need some sort of service or repair work or a part or two. The ones in a home shop that are only used by one person probably will hold up better but they still need parts and pieces once in a while and a bit of service work. The best way to get laughed out of a welding equipment shop is to show up with a HF welder of any sort.
Millers, Lincolns and Hobarts can be serviced at just about any welding equipment repair shop anywhere in the country.

I still weld almost all of my sheet metal with a torch as it makes for a better weld that can be worked and not crack out if it is done right. I also just weld sheet metal with a torch better than I do with my mig. I tack it all together with the mig though as that is a lot faster for me to do and then do the finish welding with the torch.

[Kabwe]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I still weld almost all of my sheet metal with a torch as it makes for a better weld that can be worked and not crack out if it is done right. I also just weld sheet metal with a torch better than I do with my mig. I tack it all together with the mig though as that is a lot faster for me to do and then do the finish welding with the torch.

That is old school and works great and actually is superior in many ways for doing sheetmetal. I now do all my sheetmetal with tig which is about the same as using a torch. If you have a nice fit there is no need for using filler rod. But that is a skill set that is very different, but in my opinion is superior to mig for sheetmetal. Mig is fine and does a great job but a torch or tig is superior, but then we are getting into the metal artist realm.lol But it is my goal and I'm trying to reach that level. Practice, practice and more practice.lol

[_Ogre]

one thing about the weldpak series of welders is that you can add gas shield to them after the fact as funds become available.