V8 Swap-Engine and Trans Crossmember questions

[BurgerMan]

So I pulled out the 235 and trans, and I want to put my 350/t350 into my 59.

I found this crossmember set on eBay that looks like it is exactly what I need, cept I haven't found the information on installation. I've searched, but I'm not a big fan of the search function on the site.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261232173575...84.m1438.l2649

Here's my questions:

1) what are peoples thoughts that are using something like this? Are there other options? I Like the idea of the mount going from frame rail to frame rail.
2) does this require the removal of the original trans crossmember where the old bell housing was bolted?
3) where should I start with the placement of the mounts? Engine and trans are bolted together, so obviously start with engine and then place the rear. And once that's figured out do I....
4) weld them in or bolt them in?
5) will I have issues with headers or inner fenders?

Here is a little more info that might be helpful. I currently have the cab at another location where we're doing the body work. It's -7 outside with a foot of snow, so I can't imagine I'll have the ability to have the cab in place to check the clearance. I took pictures and the harmonic balancer of the 235 sits right in line with the front crossmember. Is that where I should start? Will there be a weird gap between firewall and engine since the 350 is shorter?

Sorry for all the questions and my random thoughts.

[mr48chev]

Those work pretty well and the price is competitive even with the shipping.

The turbo 350 probably requires the removal of the crossmember under the bellhousing more than the mount setup. It's normal to remove it when you do that swap.

You hang it in where it fits right both fore an aft and the crank center is at the right height. those mounts pretty well do that for you along with setting up the right angle on the engine. One consideration is that if you plan to use the stock driveshaft (you will probably have to swap the front yoke for a fine spline yoke) you can set the engine in so it ends up where the driveshaft yoke slips in the trans just right. You still need firewall clearance but that shouldn't be an issue in most cases. You can add a fan spacer to get the fan closer to the radiator if needed.

I'd fit the crossmember to the frame both under the engine and trans and set the engine down in and hook it to the engine crossmember and jockey it around where I want it. As long as you support the weight of it with the engine hoist you can slip it back and forth to get it where you want it and make sure everything clears.

Weld or bolt, your call but I'd bolt the trans crossmember in regardless.

No problem with the inner fenders, those trucks came with V8's as well as the sixes.

[BurgerMan]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

Those work pretty well and the price is competitive even with the shipping.

The turbo 350 probably requires the removal of the crossmember under the bellhousing more than the mount setup. It's normal to remove it when you do that swap.

I noticed that they sold just the engine crossmember. Would that be for swaps that use the correct bell housing and stock trans with the v8 swap? Do I need the trans crossmember? I'd imagine the weight on just the engine mounts would be stressful.

You hang it in where it fits right both fore an aft and the crank center is at the right height. those mounts pretty well do that for you along with setting up the right angle on the engine. One consideration is that if you plan to use the stock driveshaft (you will probably have to swap the front yoke for a fine spline yoke) you can set the engine in so it ends up where the driveshaft yoke slips in the trans just right. You still need firewall clearance but that shouldn't be an issue in most cases. You can add a fan spacer to get the fan closer to the radiator if needed.

I'd like to draw up a picture and upload it of the placement of the mounts. Its hard to do without them in my hand. My main concern is the height within the frame rails. And what sort of angle are you talking here. I'm guessing just a slight angle so the trans output shaft is aimed at my diff, kind of like the diff angles up?

I'd fit the crossmember to the frame both under the engine and trans and set the engine down in and hook it to the engine crossmember and jockey it around where I want it. As long as you support the weight of it with the engine hoist you can slip it back and forth to get it where you want it and make sure everything clears.

So basically your suggesting usin my engine hoist, with the mount bolted to it to position it in there. I don't want to start drilling holes in the frame or welding stuff if it needs to move. How do you suggest holding it in there.

Weld or bolt, your call but I'd bolt the trans crossmember in regardless.

weld engine, bolt trans. That's what I was thinking in case I had to drop it later for rebuild or service.

No problem with the inner fenders, those trucks came with V8's as well as the sixes.

Thanks formthe info. Questions in red above.

[roger55]

I bought that set. The crossmembers are good but the 3 mounts are cheap. I trashed the transmission mount and got a Energy Suspension urethane. I may do the same with the engine mounts too.

I did a mock up of the engine (with tranny attached), put it where I wanted it and that told me where to mount the crossmembers.

I bolted the crossmembers to the frame but I did weld the brackets to the tubes.

[roger55]

I noticed that they sold just the engine crossmember. Would that be for swaps that use the correct bell housing and stock trans with the v8 swap? Do I need the trans crossmember? I'd imagine the weight on just the engine mounts would be stressful.

You absolutely need the transmission crossmember.

I'd like to draw up a picture and upload it of the placement of the mounts. Its hard to do without them in my hand. My main concern is the height within the frame rails. And what sort of angle are you talking here. I'm guessing just a slight angle so the trans output shaft is aimed at my diff, kind of like the diff angles up?

You are making this more difficult than it is. Just do a mock up.
Measure your pinion angle. Mine was about 3.5 degrees up so I mounted the engine 3.5 degrees down.

So basically your suggesting usin my engine hoist, with the mount bolted to it to position it in there. I don't want to start drilling holes in the frame or welding stuff if it needs to move. How do you suggest holding it in there.

That's what I did. Use a floor jack to hold the transmission. Get it where you want it and mark where to drill your holes for the crossmember brackets.

weld engine, bolt trans. That's what I was thinking in case I had to drop it later for rebuild or service.

Your choice.

[BurgerMan]

Wow those pics were great. I can see exactly how you mounted it in there, and the way the trans member was sitting. Again, hard to know without having it hand. Sometimes it's hard to type out what your thinking and this was just the case.

I have the energy suspension bushings in my k20 and I really like them. I will probably do that. Looks like it is just metal on metal with that engine mount. Which mount are ya thinking?

Now the only battle is placing it without the cab. I don't have the space or means to keep moving the cab around. Could I possibly get a measurement from the front frame to the center of that top bolt? Or any other ideas? No hurry here, I just ordered them.

[roger55]

Originally Posted by BurgerMan

Now the only battle is placing it without the cab. I don't have the space or means to keep moving the cab around. Could I possibly get a measurement from the front frame to the center of that top bolt? Or any other ideas? No hurry here, I just ordered them.

I don't like the idea of giving you measurements. There could be variances between my truck and yours. I suggest you place the engine with the cab on. Then no surprises later.
There isn't an exactly correct place for engine placement. Do a mock up with all the accessories bolted to the engine like I did. Then fit the engine so everything works and clears along with getting the angle of the engine/transmission to be what it needs to be to be right with your pinion angle.

[BurgerMan]

Btw, love the way your garage looks. Wish mine was that cool.

[Highsider]

Roger posts great photos!

[Angryman117]

I am using that exact kit in the listing. Works great for my setup. I put the engine and transmission in place before I pulled the cab off. Really no set instructions for installing them that I could find.

[BurgerMan]

oh boy.....alright. Well this will definitely make things a little more tricky. I will have to either get my frame and motor to where the cab is, or get the cab to my house. Logistics! Do you recommend using the front fenders/inners bolted in as well?

[roger55]

Originally Posted by BurgerMan

oh boy.....alright. Well this will definitely make things a little more tricky. I will have to either get my frame and motor to where the cab is, or get the cab to my house. Logistics! Do you recommend using the front fenders/inners bolted in as well?

I understand you have some logistic issues now.
But, I think you will sleep better knowing you won't have troubles later during final assembly.

You don't have to mount the fenders but having your core support and radiator/fan/shroud would be something you want to do.
I don't think you would have any issues with your inner fenders but you can sure take a minute and hold them in place by hand to make sure.

Here's my final mock-up before disassembly. The new crossmembers only had tack welds and a couple of bolts to hold them. After removing the engine, I did all the drilling and welding for them. I did a rough in for my air intake setup too. I even mocked-in the radiator hoses.

[BurgerMan]

True, well i will just have to wait until it gets warmer and get that all lined up. Parts are ordered so its a good start.

Well I guess I can switch over to working on/figuring out what to do with the front axle.

[_Ogre]

imo... those universal fit x-members have cheap mounts and need to be cut to fit and welded.
motor mounts and the trans x-member are one of the easiest fabrication projects you will do.

motor mounts are the easiest. mine are tube and pipe nipple. scrap material and a nipple


a few plates, couple of short pipe nipples and any sbc motor mount.


or some tube stock


the trans mount can be angle or tube. mine was a little overkill and cheap


easy peasy

[roger55]

The crossmembers are well made and worth $99 even if you trash the mounts which are indeed cheap.

[RusteeNutz]

Glad I found this topic. Exactly what I needed, and, it seems like a better deal than what I was able to find on my own, that also includes everything in one package.

[BurgerMan]

It might be universal and still have to modify it, but the pipe bending and bracket designs are worth it to have in hand. I am not the most experienced fabricator, so to me it's a little more valueable

[roger55]

Originally Posted by BurgerMan

It might be universal and still have to modify it, but the pipe bending and bracket designs are worth it to have in hand. I am not the most experienced fabricator, so to me it's a little more valueable

The only thing you have to do is cut the length of the tubes a little. No big deal.

I think it's a little better to weld the tubes to the brackets once everything is located. I also think it's better to use the supplied bolts for attaching the brackets to the frame. I guess the front brackets could be welded but I used the bolts.

[Nordic]

I used them and they worked well. Bolted the brackets to the frame and when all was set welded tubes to brackets.

[RusteeNutz]

Got my answer to my shipping question.

Thanks,
Ralf

[roger55]

Online would sure be the way to go. Buying it locally, I'm sure you can't buy the small amounts.

The shipping could kill you though if you missed getting one or two pieces you didn't account for and had to order again.

I understand you enjoy doing this yourself Ogre and you do superb work. But, I do think the kit makes sense for a lot of people. It sure did me. Like I said, it was excellent quality except for the 3 mounts. The fit was really good.

[RusteeNutz]

[quote=_Ogre;6463697]ok, i'll play along...

1-1/4 square tube from metaldepot.com qty 2 ft = $6.62
1 ft of 3/8'' dom tube from same place is $2.58
total cost for the first picture $9.20

1 sqft of 10 ga steel is $10.94 from http://www.metalsdepot.com/
1 ft of 3/8'' dom tube from same place is $2.58
total cost for the second and 3rd picture $13.52

for the trans mount figure 4 ft of square tube at $13.24
and .25 sqft of 10ga plate at $2.73
for a total cost of $15.97

no matter how you look at it, way better than the $99, plus i enjoy making it myself
probably equal cutting and fitting on home built vs store bought.


Hello Ogre: Just curious, is the shipping rate fairly reasonable (i.e. less than $15?) I had a look at the link you provided, and really like it, so thank you for taking the time and post it. I'd like to take a shot at fabbing up some stuff like this, and this is very helpful to someone like me who has never done this before. Like Roger55 said, you did good work on those. I hope to do the same.

Thanks,
Ralf

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by RusteeNutz

Hello Ogre: Just curious, is the shipping rate fairly reasonable (i.e. less than $15?)

i've never bought steel online, just posted those prices for reference. i buy locally from steel yards.
we used to have metal supermarkets around here but they all closed down.
now i buy drops from the local alro steel supply house. unless your buying a full stick they like to gouge on price.

local scrap yards are a good source for steel, they buy it for scrap price and sell it to me for twice what they can get for it.
still better than new prices

look around for steel yards or scrap yards.

i'm a scrounger too, i pick up steel any where i can
most of that i had in my steel supply. had to buy the 3/8'' dom tube.

[RusteeNutz]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

i've never bought steel online, just posted those prices for reference. i buy locally from steel yards.
we used to have metal supermarkets around here but they all closed down.
now i buy drops from the local alro steel supply house. unless your buying a full stick they like to gouge on price.

local scrap yards are a good source for steel, they buy it for scrap price and sell it to me for twice what they can get for it.
still better than new prices

look around for steel yards or scrap yards.

i'm a scrounger too, i pick up steel any where i can
most of that i had in my steel supply. had to buy the 3/8'' dom tube.

Thank you, got it!