Need help with headlights and tail lights not working 0n 61

[Apache809]

Hello, been trying to get my headlights and tail/brake lights working with no luck. Im no car electrician but know some basics of electricity. Starting from the rear I changed the bulbs and got nothing. I then tested for current with my tester and got nothing thru the wires either. Checked the fuse and it was good. Tested applying brakes and nothing either. No luck with headlights either. Only light working on it is the cab light.

Any ideas before I have to go buy a complete harness?

[B_Bob]

Try probing the wires at the switches. Also, your brake and turn signal power goes through the turn signal switch. I had to replace that switch to get mine to work on my 65. One more thing would be to check the connectors for the headlights. I have to wiggle mine sometimes to get the headlight to come back on. Just how it is with old trucks I guess. Good luck.

[Apache809]

Originally Posted by B_Bob

Try probing the wires at the switches. Also, your brake and turn signal power goes through the turn signal switch. I had to replace that switch to get mine to work on my 65. One more thing would be to check the connectors for the headlights. I have to wiggle mine sometimes to get the headlight to come back on. Just how it is with old trucks I guess. Good luck.

Didn't know that.. So if the turn switch goes out I get no tail light or brake lights?
Where is the headlight switch? and do you mean on the connectors at the actual headlight or in general? Thanks for the reply.

[Cape Codder]

If you have no power to tail lights or headlights I would start at the headlamp switch. With the lights off you should have power in to switch. Then with the lights pulled to the first detent you should see power to the parklamp circuit. With the switch all the way out you should see power to the headlamps too. If you get power in and out of the swtch then check you firewall connector. Start at the source and move towards the lights .

[Apache809]

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

If you have no power to tail lights or headlights I would start at the headlamp switch. With the lights off you should have power in to switch. Then with the lights pulled to the first detent you should see power to the parklamp circuit. With the switch all the way out you should see power to the headlamps too. If you get power in and out of the swtch then check you firewall connector. Start at the source and move towards the lights .

Thanks, i'll give it a shot now.

[Cape Codder]

Do you know how to get the switch out? If not reach up behind to the side of the switch and feel for a little button that will go in about 1/4 inch. That will let you pull out the shaft and then unscrew the switch retainer. It is much easier to test a switch with it hanging down

[Apache809]

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

Do you know how to get the switch out? If not reach up behind to the side of the switch and feel for a little button that will go in about 1/4 inch. That will let you pull out the shaft and then unscrew the switch retainer. It is much easier to test a switch with it hanging down

I ran your test with the parking lights on the first level of the switch and got power. Then ran a test with it fully out and got nothing on the headlights. as I was probing i tested this guy and got power going to it from the red wire but got nothing on the dark green. Think I need a new relay?



As I probed this light green cable coming from the headlight shown below, i dont have power with the switch open. The dark green cable looks like the one going to the switch show on the last picture.



Here i probed that dark green cable that looked like the last position on the switch and got no power. So new switch?

[tincan1966]

That relay is for the horn - has absolutely nothing to do with any of the lights. If you have nothing coming out of the headlight switch, then there's a possibility the switch is bad. IF you do have power coming out of the switch then you need to trace on downstream to the dimmer switch and test it.
Unless you have a good wiring diagram, it's hard to "probe and guess" on which wire goes to what.
I'd suggest getting a diagram so you can see the circuits and know where to test.

And for the comment about having to wiggle connectors to get lights to work- NO that isn't "just how old trucks are" everything should work just as they should and work every time. The main culprit in these trucks is the grounding. The first thing to look at is the battery to body grounds, normally about a 12-10 gauge wire rom the battery (-) to the core support.

[Apache809]

Originally Posted by tincan1966

That relay is for the horn - has absolutely nothing to do with any of the lights. If you have nothing coming out of the headlight switch, then there's a possibility the switch is bad. IF you do have power coming out of the switch then you need to trace on downstream to the dimmer switch and test it.
Unless you have a good wiring diagram, it's hard to "probe and guess" on which wire goes to what.
I'd suggest getting a diagram so you can see the circuits and know where to test.

And for the comment about having to wiggle connectors to get lights to work- NO that isn't "just how old trucks are" everything should work just as they should and work every time. The main culprit in these trucks is the grounding. The first thing to look at is the battery to body grounds, normally about a 12-10 gauge wire rom the battery (-) to the core support.

when I pull the switch to the first position which is parking i do get current, but when I pull it for the headlights i have none. i probed the switch and get current but none from that green cable i pointed at with the dark green arrow. So does that mean i need a new switch?

I just so happen to have the shop manual supplement with some info but again, to me it looks like Japanese since the terms are new to me.

Here is some literature on the 1961 shop manual.

[Apache809]

And here is a diagram for a 65. im not sure if it will work for my 61 but the wire colors and set up look about the same.

[B_Bob]

Originally Posted by tincan1966

That relay is for the horn - has absolutely nothing to do with any of the lights. If you have nothing coming out of the headlight switch, then there's a possibility the switch is bad. IF you do have power coming out of the switch then you need to trace on downstream to the dimmer switch and test it.
Unless you have a good wiring diagram, it's hard to "probe and guess" on which wire goes to what.
I'd suggest getting a diagram so you can see the circuits and know where to test.

And for the comment about having to wiggle connectors to get lights to work- NO that isn't "just how old trucks are" everything should work just as they should and work every time. The main culprit in these trucks is the grounding. The first thing to look at is the battery to body grounds, normally about a 12-10 gauge wire rom the battery (-) to the core support.

Ha, I know that wiggling connectors is not legit. Mine are just old and dirty. Every now and then when I go out for a cruise at night, I'll have one headlight out. A quick wiggle always has it back on. I should take 'em apart and clean it up, but I'll be doing a whole harness soon with relays, so that little problem will, as you say, "work just as they should and work every time."

Great advice on the grounds though.

[Cape Codder]

You should have power to the switch with the lights off. Then you should have power to the park lamp circuit on the halfway out position. It looks like it would be the brown and purple wires on the scematic. Then when you pull the switch all the way out you should have power to the brown (tail lamps) and the light blue (headlamps). This goes to the dimmer that then breaks the power to high and low beams. If you have power in but not to these circuit You have a problem with the headlamp switch. you can try spraying the switch with some wd-40 and working it in and out but replacing the switch is the best fix. If you have power to the brown wire and still no tail light you have a problem to the rear ,check your grounds to the lamps if you have power at the sockets.

[Apache809]

Since you mentioned the rear here is a pic of what i found under the plate.
Im gonna start with the switch tomorrow. im gonna clean it really good and check my grounds. Thank you guys now i have somewhat of an idea of what im dealing with. haven't been able to find a diagram for a 61 but this one looks close enough.

[60n60Apache]

Apache809,
Make sure that the housing for your lights have a good ground.
grounding to the body.

[forestb]

Is that what that hole and indention is for? That is where the PO installed my seat belts and I have never seen a cover. I have always wondered why it was not on both sides.

Originally Posted by Apache809

Since you mentioned the rear here is a pic of what i found under the plate.
Im gonna start with the switch tomorrow. im gonna clean it really good and check my grounds. Thank you guys now i have somewhat of an idea of what im dealing with. haven't been able to find a diagram for a 61 but this one looks close enough.

[Apache809]

How do I get a youtube video to play here?

[Apache809]

61 Chevy Apache C30 Project: Headlights and...

[Cape Codder]

After seeing the wiring I recommend getting a good soldering gun a roll of rosin core solder dilectric grease and shrink wrap. Any wiring repairs done with butt connectors will be a future problem.

[Apache809]

Im gonna tinker with it a little more today and see if i can get that switch cleaned up and see what happens. And yea, im gonna make a stop by advance and get something for all those lose wire.

I really appreciate the help. Like I said before I never dug into the electrical part of my rides but it's about time to learn. I spent the night studding that diagram although im not sure if that's the correct one. It looks about right.

Im letting the dew clear off everything so i can go have some fun.

[Cape Codder]

I have been in the auto repair business for 40 years and have had lots of old cars and trucks. When I get a car in with an electrical problem nowadays I am amazed at how complicated they have made circuits to make our cars do what had to be done manually in the past. Between light timers ,delay wipers,accesarys that stay on till doors are opened. Modern cars are wiring nightmares. It is nice when I get to work on the old basics. All you need is power and a ground and a switch.

[Apache809]

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

I have been in the auto repair business for 40 years and have had lots of old cars and trucks. When I get a car in with an electrical problem nowadays I am amazed at how complicated they have made circuits to make our cars do what had to be done manually in the past. Between light timers ,delay wipers,accesarys that stay on till doors are opened. Modern cars are wiring nightmares. It is nice when I get to work on the old basics. All you need is power and a ground and a switch.

Yea, it can be very intimidating. I usually stay away from dealing with electrical stuff on cars. It's easy to short something out and make it worse. But I think this is an easier way to learn because I can see everything and can get to it.

[Apache809]

Originally Posted by B_Bob

Try probing the wires at the switches. Also, your brake and turn signal power goes through the turn signal switch. I had to replace that switch to get mine to work on my 65. One more thing would be to check the connectors for the headlights. I have to wiggle mine sometimes to get the headlight to come back on. Just how it is with old trucks I guess. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

If you have no power to tail lights or headlights I would start at the headlamp switch. With the lights off you should have power in to switch. Then with the lights pulled to the first detent you should see power to the parklamp circuit. With the switch all the way out you should see power to the headlamps too. If you get power in and out of the swtch then check you firewall connector. Start at the source and move towards the lights .

Originally Posted by tincan1966

That relay is for the horn - has absolutely nothing to do with any of the lights. If you have nothing coming out of the headlight switch, then there's a possibility the switch is bad. IF you do have power coming out of the switch then you need to trace on downstream to the dimmer switch and test it.
Unless you have a good wiring diagram, it's hard to "probe and guess" on which wire goes to what.
I'd suggest getting a diagram so you can see the circuits and know where to test.

And for the comment about having to wiggle connectors to get lights to work- NO that isn't "just how old trucks are" everything should work just as they should and work every time. The main culprit in these trucks is the grounding. The first thing to look at is the battery to body grounds, normally about a 12-10 gauge wire rom the battery (-) to the core support.

Thanks to you all the problem is partually fixed. Im pleased to anounce that the problem was the switch and the dimmer switch. First the switch had a broken prone so I glued it in place and it worked fine. I still wasn't getting power to the light but had power to the switch so i moved on to the dimmer switch. I had curent goint to the dimmer but not coming out. Replacing it gave me light at the lamps.

Now i just need the tail lights and im good to go. I'll jump on those tomorrow but here is a quick video on how it went. Thank you guys a bunch.

61 Chevy Apache C30 Project: Headlights and switch - YouTube

[Cape Codder]

The thing with poor connections that need to be wiggled to work is you have current arching and creating heat at the connectors. This will cause melted plugs and sockets eventually. I had an old Ford coupe years ago with a water leak over the fuse box and rusty fuse clips. Sometimes the fuses got hot enough to melt the filiment from the ends.

[Cape Codder]

Your diagram shows power goes from the fuse box to the stop light switch and then to the directional switch. I would first check for power at the switch looks like it should be orange. If you have power there push the pedal and check for power out should be white it looks like. If this checks out then go to directional switch.


Bob

[Apache809]

Originally Posted by Cape Codder

Your diagram shows power goes from the fuse box to the stop light switch and then to the directional switch. I would first check for power at the switch looks like it should be orange. If you have power there push the pedal and check for power out should be white it looks like. If this checks out then go to directional switch.


Bob

Found the signal switch but it has no power going to it. I unplugged it to clean the switch and the mechanism was a bit gunky. I cleaned it up and freed it but noticed the signal rod that goes from the switch to the turn signal is not connected. looks like i may have to take the steering wheel off to get to it. It's the thin cable that activates the switch. I will address that next. But first, I found the stop switch under the brake and freed it too. It was stuck in and didn't have the freedom it needed. WD40 and and few repetitions and it flows good now. Tested it for continuity and it flows good too.

Im not getting power to the turn switch plug at the base of the steering shaft. So steering wheel coming off or is there and easier way to get to that switch without removing the steering wheel?