Headlights?

[rjsdad]

Hey there,

Has anyone tried those clear light housings from LMC? I want brighter headlights and want to know a good route to take. Thanks.


Jeff

[airdale94]

There are many mods. The first is the headlight relay. Also the Jeep H4's will swap if your not satisfied with the relay mod.

[SS Tim]

Modifications are only as good as your basic system.
Check voltage and grounds first.

[rjsdad]

I'll have to check into the relay mod. Thanks!

Lights are bright for '70's standards but not for todays. Want to get away from the yellow beam.

[nolimitssjca]

There is a lot of info available about headlights. The base issue is that the original GM wiring did not allow for full voltage to reach the headlights. The relay mod addresses that issue. Simply swapping to another light source won't increase the voltage. In fact some light types will not work because they require full voltage to operate.

Bottom line, even if you want different light types you are better off to address the voltage issue first.

[SS Tim]

Start with the relays then decide how much more you want to do.
A Silverstar sealed beam or a bulb conversion. Th e jeep headlights are plastic lens and I believe LMCs are as well. The old Cibie lens were hard to beat. If you can find a set that would be my first choice. My Vega panel had Cibie replacements and three Oscars all on relays with circuit breakers.

There is a lot of very good worthwile reading here.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/tech.html

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by SS Tim

Start with the relays then decide how much more you want to do.
A Silverstar sealed beam or a bulb conversion. Th e jeep headlights are plastic lens and I believe LMCs are as well. The old Cibie lens were hard to beat. If you can find a set that would be my first choice. My Vega panel had Cibie replacements and three Oscars all on relays with circuit breakers.

There is a lot of very good worthwile reading here.
http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/tech.html

This is what will be on mine, Cibies are good, the Marchals were better, all NOS Marchals. Good for focused beams about a mile and a half.

[1972SUPERSB]

Use the sylvania silverstar as mentioned above. I have them and use stock wiring and no relays and they are plenty bright and a nice white color. I also have all new wiring, new battery and new alternator and voltage regulator. Make sure you check all of this as well

[Wrenchbender Ret]

I put the LMC bulbs in my 70. I also had the relays. I did not like them. It seemed like the light was all over the place. I went back to the regular Halegens. I'll sell the bulbs cheap.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by Wrenchbender Ret

I put the LMC bulbs in my 70. I also had the relays. I did not like them. It seemed like the light was all over the place. I went back to the regular Halegens. I'll sell the bulbs cheap.

...and therein lies the problem, most of the aftermarket options are simply style things. You can get focused, useful, better light from E-Code halogen reflectors, which have a distinct pattern (aimed properly the low beams will be flat across the horizon and kick up on the right side, or left side if a RHD version, to illuminate road side signs. The downside is that in the US we put cross street and often exit, turn lane, and other informational signs unlit above the street, and E-Code do nothing to illuminate them, or actually specifically do not illuminate them. Not a problem in rural areas, and actually works brilliantly, but can be annoying in urban areas. The bouncing horizon of light takes some getting used to, especially if going on a vehicle that has more spring than shock. Options for E-Codes are (best to good) Marchal (very hard to find and out of production), Cibie (less hard to find, still in production, several variations), Hella (fairly easy to find, also several variations) and Autopal (also fairly easy to find and the cheapest of the bunch. Carrillo, Lucas and Bosch also made E-codes but they are uncommon and not worth chasing down unless you are doing a resto that they are correct for.

I've not seen any modern conversion reflectors that were all that great...and to each his own, but whiter (or bluer krypton or xenon) lamps tend to reflect back off of particles and dust in the air more than unenhanced halogen lamps making the light seem to light up more, but it’s mostly dust. The marketing of “more like daylight” of these kind of lamps is IMHO exactly what you don’t want. More blue in the spectrum triggers your eyes into daylight mode and causes night blindness anywhere else. It is also what causes glare, and why sunglasses specifically filter out blue. A good quality standard halogen bulb in a good reflector will give you the most useable light despite feeling less modern. The best lamps are French and German OSRAM, Philips, Narva, Norma, and resist the temptation to put too hot of a bulb in for your low beams, your low beams are on when the vehicle is moving slow or stopped and can’t dissipate the heat as well and can melt everything. Also remember that in the low/hi reflector that only low *or* hi is illuminated never both at the same time.

[SS Tim]

Skorpioskorpio,
Well said as always there are drawbacks. Quality is always better when it comes to light.
On the Marchal lights in general are they that much better than Cibies? The Cibies (Oscars and headlamps) I had were great and very usable on a street truck. Plus I could get them wholesale from SigmanPitman. Just wish I could remember exactly the sizes and bulbs. Pretty sure I had Bobi z beams and not E codes. But they were the "off road" non-sealed version headlamp.

[Stocker]

Excellent post, skorpioskorpio. I seem to recall you've posted similarly in the past, but good info is always worth repeating. Even if you have to tease us by mentioning Marchals, which we can no longer buy. I had a set of 7" H4 Marchal e-codes decades ago and they were as good as you say, but the reflectors eventually lost their finish. At the same time I got them, a friend got 7" Marchal Ampilux headlamps which used separate bulbs & reflectors for high & low beams. The high beams were disappointing until we wired the lows to stay on when the highs were selected.

SS Tim, if you had Bobi Z-beams, you would be more impressed with E-codes. Much better light pattern IMO.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by Stocker

Excellent post, skorpioskorpio. I seem to recall you've posted similarly in the past, but good info is always worth repeating. Even if you have to tease us by mentioning Marchals, which we can no longer buy. I had a set of 7" H4 Marchal e-codes decades ago and they were as good as you say, but the reflectors eventually lost their finish. At the same time I got them, a friend got 7" Marchal Ampilux headlamps which used separate bulbs & reflectors for high & low beams. The high beams were disappointing until we wired the lows to stay on when the highs were selected.

SS Tim, if you had Bobi Z-beams, you would be more impressed with E-codes. Much better light pattern IMO.

Thanks, I bought my first set of Marchals for a '76 Buick Skyhawk I had in my youth and fell in love with them. I've also had, or actually have Cibies, and have had Hellas. The reflectors on the Marchals and the Cibies will lose their luster over time, especially in more caustic climates and compounded by higher wattage capsules. The H4 boots especially are a bit leaky and if you run without boots at all the reflectors won't last long. I didn't have the car that had the Hellas on it long enough to know how they did over time.

Never had a set of Ampiluxes, they're like the holy grail of Marchal lights, an NOS set will bring $800-1000. Cibie made something similar called a Biode. No such thing for a 4 eyed GMC though. Why Valeo decided to kill Marchal and keep Cibie for their aftermarket line is still beyond me. Marchal became their OEM supplier line. Back when they were still an independent company they were pretty much *the* supplier to anything that raced at night, Monte Carlo, Le Mans, Daytona, Sebring, Dakar, Baja, World Rally Championship.

If you google Le Mans at night you'll see that the vast majority of cars still use unenhanced halogen and even outright French yellow tint bulbs to race by. I think I trust the preferences of guys that drive 200 mph in the dark.

[dznucks]

Upgrade to the headlight relays, get a set of Cibie's, Hella bulbs, and ceramic bulb sockets.

[skorpioskorpio]

Originally Posted by SS Tim

Skorpioskorpio,
Well said as always there are drawbacks. Quality is always better when it comes to light.
On the Marchal lights in general are they that much better than Cibies? The Cibies (Oscars and headlamps) I had were great and very usable on a street truck. Plus I could get them wholesale from SigmanPitman. Just wish I could remember exactly the sizes and bulbs. Pretty sure I had Bobi z beams and not E codes. But they were the "off road" non-sealed version headlamp.

Cibies are very good, but are a little softer focus than the Marchals and not so dead flat a transition between what's lit and what's not. Now the downside to the Marchals is that the bouncing line does give some people eyestrain and others makes them queezy. I have Cibies on my bikes (domed 5 1/4 H4s with city lights that I have wired as what Honda calls "position lamps") My old XL250s have AC stator driven headlamps and in the US models when the engine dies so does the headlight, so I drive a small halogen BA9 bulb in the city light socket connected to the battery circuit so if I do a lazy clutch and kill the bike at a stop at night I don't become a dark target. Anyway Cibies are better in that application, not so sharp so the cornering "diving into the dark" isn't so pronounced.

The Bobis are US spec light I think, some of them even had a sealed reflector with a dome that would go over the lamp capsule. Marchal also made US spec lights, I have a set of 7"s actually. I was planning to do Cibies until I stumbled across my 900s and it went from there. My headlights are H1 Highs and H1 lows, no dual filement H4 lamp in the outers, they are dedicated lowbeams. The fogs are 750s and then 900 spots (good to a mile and a half) and 909 driving lights (focused beam to about 3/4 to a mile) They are the equivelent of Super Oscars which are massive lamps, really deep with a concave lens, the Marchal 900s are much shallower and a mildly convex lens. I have 55w German made Philips lamps in the low beams and fogs, and 100 watters in highs, driving and spots. Anyway all going into my GT themed Jimmy project which I'm basically turning into a rally car.