Looking for opinions on who makes the best 12 bolt

[JimJones]

And what options would you specify if you were having a custom 12 bolt built?
I plan on running a custom built Dana 44 from Dynatrac for my front axle. You can check it out here
http://www.dynatrac.com/products/jk/pro-rock44.html


I want my rear axle built to the same standards as the front. Some of these include 3" tubes and 35 spline cryogenically treaded, heat treaded super wazo axel shafts.

I've come across two companies that look like they know what they are doing when it comes to building 12 bolts
http://www.moserengineering.com/

http://www.strangeengineering.net/

Do any of you guys have any experience with either of these two companies and if so which do you prefer? Also any advice on things to specify when having a 12 bolt built would be appreciated. It needs to be able to survive behind a 450-500hp motor and a heavy right foot without grenadeing.
Is it possible to build a 12 bolt as strong as the Dana 44 I linked to above?

I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the 4x4 section so I figured I'd get as many opinions as I can here first and maybe later repost there.

[PanelDeland]

If you're going to run a Dana front,why not a Dana rear? Go with a sixty and it should be stronger than your front. If you're spending that kind of $$ on the front then it just makes sense to build as strong a rear.

[70blackfish]

dana rear or 14 bolt and be done

[JimJones]

I'm trying to keep the weight down if possible and don’t want to haul around a Dana 60 if a 12 bolt can be built strong enough to handle 500hp burnouts that’s the main reason I'm interested in the 12 bolt.

[Shaky]

Maybe it's blasphemy, but if you're going custom and trying to keep weight down, why not go with a Ford 9"?

[vidman]

I have run Dyna-trac axles and Moser. You will be very happy with either company. I run a Moser fab9" in my BB C-10 and is very well built..

[outlaw 3454]

Originally Posted by Shaky

Maybe it's blasphemy, but if you're going custom and trying to keep weight down, why not go with a Ford 9"?

winner! and if you wanna make it real slick, make it a fab 9!!

[El Campo]

It is HUGE money but Mark Williams Enterprises makes some super impressive stuff. Its at least worth taking a gander at their website for giggles. I have over 600 HP and a spool but only had street tires (had as truck is in a million pieces now) and I had some Moser components and they are very fine products.

[GASoline71]

Can't beat a full floating 14 bolt for a rear diff in a 4x4. They are plentiful and are pretty cheap.. In stock form they will handle gobs of TQ.

Gary

[airdale94]

Like Shaky said if your going custom built have them build you a 9". Or you could go a 14bolt semi-float 6lug and then you could keep your 6 lug patern on the rear. They have a 9.5" ring gear compared to the 10.5" of the FF. If you get one out of a 73-87 they are about 2.75" wider, but the 88-98's are about the same. Or you could 99-07? and get a disc rear.

[JimJones]

Brakes aren't a concern I'm going with the biggest disc kit that Willwood makes that will fit with 17" rims.
I do kind of think that running a 9" is blasphemy but I'm not totally opposed to it either so that is an option although I would really rather stick with a 12 bolt if its possible to have one built strong enough to withstand 500hp. Another thing that I thought of was if that Dynatrac Dana 44 is so great would it blasphemy to us it as a rear? I don’t know if this is even possible or not?
So far all of you guys agree that if I go with a Moser I should not have a problem? One other crazy question I have is do any of the axle companies make 8 lug axle shafts that will work with what we traditionally consider 1/2 ton axels? Some of my favorite rims are 8 lugs.

[Mike C]

IMO, spending a ton of money on a 12 bolt doesn't make a lot of sense. Obviously you are staying with 6 lug? Building a Dana 60 gives you a lot more options I think and it really isn't a lot heavier than a 12 bolt unlike the full float 14 which is a tank. And if I had to guess, the built 12 bolt doesn't get you a lot beyond a semi-float 9.5" 14 bolt.

9" isn't great for a 4x4 because of how low the pinion is, but if you are building, no need to run a standard case you can go with a high pinion 9.

I'm a cheapskate by nature, and I'd throw a 6 lug semi-float 14 in until I broke it. But if I was building a 6 lug rear it would be a Dana 60. I've actually got a couple of cores I plan on building 5 lug jeep rears out of.

[70blackfish]

get a dana 60 out of a van there 8 lug...

[airdale94]

I think I have to go with Mike C. I think your money could be spent elsewhere more wisely. Unless you really are going full-on. Did the D60 4X4 come as a option or are hubs avail. with 6 lug 73-87? That's what I would do, then you could go with the 73-87 6 lug SF rear or D60. The 73-87 are actually about .75" wider each side so that would be about 1.5" total, not 2.75" as I stated in the previous post.

[Fitz]

Originally Posted by JimJones

And what options would you specify if you were having a custom 12 bolt built?
I plan on running a custom built Dana 44 from Dynatrac for my front axle. You can check it out here
http://www.dynatrac.com/products/jk/pro-rock44.html


I want my rear axle built to the same standards as the front. Some of these include 3" tubes and 35 spline cryogenically treaded, heat treaded super wazo axel shafts.

I've come across two companies that look like they know what they are doing when it comes to building 12 bolts
http://www.moserengineering.com/

http://www.strangeengineering.net/

Do any of you guys have any experience with either of these two companies and if so which do you prefer? Also any advice on things to specify when having a 12 bolt built would be appreciated. It needs to be able to survive behind a 450-500hp motor and a heavy right foot without grenadeing.
Is it possible to build a 12 bolt as strong as the Dana 44 I linked to above?

I wasn't sure if I should post this here or in the 4x4 section so I figured I'd get as many opinions as I can here first and maybe later repost there.

I have a shortened Currie GM 12 bolt in my truck with ford bearing ends and seals on the housing so I do not need C-Clip axles. Most of the drag racers use a Ford 9 in diff, not because they are stronger but because they do not use C-Clip axles which are not legal for NHRA, AHRA or IHRA racing events. The GM 12 bolt 8.875T differential is plenty strong enough. Mine stands up to 650 hp, 650 ft-lbs of torque without breaking a sweat. Mosher. Strange, and Mark Richards all build them and they are all pretty much the same.4WD applications are different than drag racing, though. Since you are already using a Dana 44 in front why not put a Dana 60 in back? Chrysler put that Diff behind the street Hemi and it is bulletproof!

[El Campo]

http://www.markwilliams.com/detail.aspx?ID=647

40 splines!! And this is just a quick look on google. I am sure there are many more like it. And for cheaper. But talk about a beast. Like has been said slicks on a drag car/truck are brutal on rearends but some 44s on rocks or in heavy mud make slicks look almost welcome I would think.

[Mike C]

Just to clarify, nobody builds an aftermarket truck 12 bolt, they are all passenger car which have the larger diameter pinion.

But that doesn't change my opinion that the 9.5" 14 bolt or the Dana 60 are better suited to the 4x4 than the passenger car axle.

I've personally build several 33 spine 8.5" 10 bolts that have run deep into the 10's for 100's of passes, but I wouldn't build one for a four wheel drive.

[JimJones]

Let me add that cost is not my primary concern here but long term reliability is. I'm not setting out on this project to see how much money I can save or how cheap I can accomplish the build. By the same token I'm not made of money either. I go to work every day and slave away for every dollar I have so I don’t want to waste money on stuff that I don’t need or is overkill.
Every payday I put away a certain amount of money into a special account for what will one day become my ultimate C10 build. My goal is to do a frame off build of truck that will last me the rest of my life without being a constant manintence nightmare for a couple of reasons number one I am not a mechanic. I know basic stuff about cars but I am no expert and I don’t think its fun to be wrenching on a 50 year old greasy truck on my days off. And number two like I said I'm not made of money so I don’t want to always have to be spending money on this I would rather do it once and be done with it.
That is why I want the very best parts I can buy brand new right out of the crate. I'm not going to the junkyard to rebuild a 50 year old axel just to save some money. I want the best of the best dropped off in a crate on my drive way.

So with that out of the way:

If I did go with a Dana 60 it would be from Dynatrac if you check out their site they make a real nice one. I can't find the link for the one I was looking at on there but if you search around you should be able to find it. The only problem with this is then I'll have an 8lug rear with a 6lug front. And also to me it doesn't make sense to have such a big heavy duty rear axle with a smaller weaker front. To me it seems like you should build each axel to the same strength level. Of course I am no expert in this subject.

Another reason I don’t feel I need a Dana 60 is because there are plenty of 400+ hp trucks coming from the factory nowadays and they are running 1/2 ton axels without blowing up every time they do a burn out. So what do the automakers know that the rest of us don’t? I just don’t want to be hauling around big heavy axels wasting gas and making the truck slower and drive and handle worse if I don’t need to.

Mike C
Why do you think that those other axels are better choices than the 12 bolt?

[special-K]

Mark Williams Dana 60 is the way to go. You add little weight over a 12-bolt with bigger tubes and shafts. Drag racers don't worry about the extra weight and after all,it's a truck

[JimJones]

Originally Posted by special-K

Mark Williams Dana 60 is the way to go. You add little weight over a 12-bolt with bigger tubes and shafts. Drag racers don't worry about the extra weight and after all,it's a truck

I've seen his name posted several times in this thread I'm going to look into him. Thanks guys.

[68350]

I will echo what others have said. If you're going to spend the money, go with a built Dana 60. I don't think ull ever tear it up unless u hit some big rocks with it.

[special-K]

I suggested Mark Williams because I know he can build a Dana 60 any way you want with whatever lug pattern you want,and the quality is top notch. I'll consider one of his Dana 60 5-lugs for my C1500. Thinking along the lines of 4wds I may go to someone else who specializes in off road.
The 14-bolt semi floater is an excellent bolt-in (other than mount changes) choice for a 6-lug. They went in the same trucks that 12-bolts did. So even though it's heavier,the weight didn't concern GM. That is the rear they used in the 454SS trucks (5-lug). That axle is very sought after by 2wd truck guys. I think Dyna Trac would be a good custom axle builder for your 4wd

[Mike C]

I went back and looked at your original post, and it doesn't look like you have bought the front axle yet. Why are you wanting 35 spline cryo axles yet staying with a Dana 44? Are 6 lugs a must have? What do you want to run for gear? What size tire are you going to run? Wheels? I would guess you are looking at about $6000 for the Dynatracs.

For the cost of the Dyantrac axles you could buy a complete CUCV pickup truck with Dana 60 front and full float 14 in the rear with 4.57 gears and a Detroit already in it. Or you could buy an early 80's Suburban with 8 lug axles and just swap 'em in your truck once again upgrading as you break things. 3.73 gears are most common and a locker only adds $1000 to that. I found one with 4.10's and a broken motor for $300 (Those are the axles currently in my Jimmy) a few years ago and regularly see running trucks for $1500.

Below is the info I added before reading the original post again.

**********************

Mark Williams is great, and so is Strange. Tom's probably the best for 12 bolts. Moser a good company also. Almost any of the aftermarket suppliers should be able to build you whatever you want. Center section, tube diameter, wall thickness, locker/limited slip, axle spline count, width, brakes, the options are unlimited. And so is the budget

What do you plan to do with the truck is the biggest question. If this is a mild wheeler, a semi-float 14 is more than sufficient. That's what I run in the Jimmy in 8 lug. The only change I plan is ditching the Gov-Lok for an Eaton.

The bulk of my axle knowledge was learned through the school of hard knocks. I had multiple 12 bolt failures some even with the stock 235 75 15 tire size! After the switch to 35's, I broke just about everything BUT axles (Ring and pinion, yoke, original Eaton posi case to name a few) and usually on the asphalt not offroad.

Personally, If I were you I'd switch to 8 lug on the front and run a full float 14 on the rear with a Detroit, only upgrading as I broke it. This becomes a problem however if you have sunk a ton of money into wheels and 15" tires.

But if you need to stick with 6 lug then I would look for one from an '89 and up Z71 extended cab where you are most likely to find one.

[JimJones]

I have not bought anything yet. Currently I am saving money and doing as much research on every part so I only have to buy once and cry once.
Gear ratio will probably be 4.10
Tire size will probably be 33's. Maybe stretch it to 35's but that is the absolute MAX size I will go
Engine is factory rated at 480hp

General use of the truck will be mostly a street truck with some light offroading rough dirt roads and muddy cornfields. No mud bogging or rock crawling. But I want to have no fear of lighting up the rear tires whenever I want to.
Without getting into a long political speech I've basically had enough of modern society and plan to kind of disappear. Before I do one thing I have always wanted to do in my life was have a bad ass classic truck all fixed up. So before I quit my job and disappear I need to build this truck exactly the way I want it and it must not break down at the drop of a hat or every time I smash the gas pedal because without a job providing a steady source of income if it breaks down it will be sitting and then the whole project will have been for nothing and many years of saving money will have been totally wasted.

The main reason I am interested in 1/2 ton axels is because I don’t want to have to haul around heavy 3/4 ton axels if it is not necessary. The reason I question on whether or not the heavier axels are necessary is because there are several factory 1/2 ton trucks that come with lighter axels and they don’t seem to be having any problems.

I'm not really interested in going to the junkyard to scrounge parts. I want to make a few phone calls and have brand new parts delivered to my builder.

I want the finished product to look something like this but with the strongest parts that are available and a 5 speed instead of an auto.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEG83cTTNJQ


If I could have found this truck before it was sold I would have begged borrowed or stole to get the $$$$$ together to buy it. To me this is about as close to absolute perfection as you can get and I would take this over any other car on the planet. What I think is really cool is this is the first C-10 I have found that has the same exact crate motor that I want to use for my build.

[El Campo]

If I were planning on disappearing I would WANT to haul around big axles for the peace of mind it would offer. Remember that factory trucks are really designed to not use 4 wheel drive much and with smaller factory tires. If the Apocalypse comes and it rains for a year straight and you live out in BFE you will be glad you bought the best biggest axles you could buy. Of course what do I know, I am a nurse and I have driven a Ford Super Duty Crew cab long bed four wheel drive with the Dana 50 front axle and the Sterling rearend as a daily driver for many years. So maybe I am biased. If I as a nurse who lives inside Houston and has virtually no reason for such a truck drove it over 300,000 miles without ever considering that the axles were too much I think you shouldn't have to worry about it either hahaha. Weird things happen out in BFE. I used to do construction work and snapped an axle on a tractor that was 5 inches in diameter in perfect dry weather not under a load. So go big and be prepared for anything