stock application retune?

[woodwright]

I just picked up an 05 Avalanche with a 5.3. I'm not planned any mods, but I'm wondering if there are gains to be had by reflashing the PCM. I live in Idaho so there are no emission laws. Just looking for a few more ponies and maybe a few mpg's.

[BR3W CITY]

Even a bone stock motor can get a few (5-20) ponies depending on which exact config you have. If you combine it with simple boltons, then even more so.

Technically, you could change a stock truck to SD tuning, and gain power also, but its rather the long-way-round for something that simple.

[boostedc10]

I don't think there is any reason to switch a bone stock truck to SD. Its a waste of time and money with no gain over MAF.

By making a few adjustments to the stock tune and dialing in the VE table you would be amazed at how much a motor will wake up in both power and efficiency.

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by boostedc10

I don't think there is any reason to switch a bone stock truck to SD. Its a waste of time and money with no gain over MAF.

Gotta ask....have you ever done it?
For the sake of discussion; if you wanted to do a max-effort build (i.e. most dyno power from stock hard parts), you would not keep standard MAF tuning. Eliminating the restriction of the MAF (and its associated mounting requirements) are reason alone to ditch it. The boat/mudbog/special use guys almost universally ditch MAF when doing said swaps.
Engine speed Vs IAT handles the math for air volume, so while you may "lose" that fine-auto-correction, you're not actually shooting in the dark. If the SD is done through HPT, you get the bonus of things like Live Tuning...(and some new features that I can't talk about if you buy the new-for-2014/15 release)

[boostedc10]

Yes I have done both and also knew that my comment may spark a debate.

We can go in circles on this as I am sure you know very well.

My comment was based on a few very simple things;
Time to switch it over to SD
Time to tune in SD
Cost (because the COS is not free)

I wont bother to start the debate on street-ability because we both know that a good tune is a good tune MAF or SD.

My point is its a waste of time and money if you are not going for big power and simply want to clean up the tune, which based on the original post is what he is looking to do.

Both my Turbo trucks were SD and done so to avoid the issue of scaling the MAF or replacing it with a more expensive unit.

I have no issue with SD to be clear and can handle a tune either way.

[Custom 68]

I believe you will still need a couple things turned off and that will cost you a few bucks for a few more you can get a tune. you will need to turn off VATS which I think it will have. Probably rear o2 sensors. Getting rid of the EGR stuff... You will probably add a CAI and better exhaust so that will want a tune. Yes it is worth tuning a stock motor. It will make things much more responsive.

[ivorton74]

how long does it take to tune the motor? im thinking about taking mine to get it tuned

[Classic-Steele]

There's always HP Tuners to consider. The standard version can be had for $450 and if you need to log wideband data, that can be done through the egr port. Its also a real benefit having the ability to keep tabs on everything that's going on, and make changes without always taking the truck back to the tuner for every retune. I have the pro version and an NGK wideband, and am looking foreward to learning to tune this thing

[BR3W CITY]

Originally Posted by boostedc10

My comment was based on a few very simple things;
Time to switch it over to SD
Time to tune in SD
Cost (because the COS is not free)


I have no issue with SD to be clear and can handle a tune either way.

I didn't think you had a problem with it, simply that the single statement "no gains to be had" is improper. The time issue become a function of price as well with SD tuning, since it tends to take longer to get the best SD tune.

As for cost...who says the COS isn't free

Originally Posted by ivorton74

how long does it take to tune the motor? im thinking about taking mine to get it tuned

Depends on what kind of tuning, and what your tuners' procedure is. Most dyno-tune shops seem to operate on pretty basic formula:

Usually you get them vehicle info ahead of time, they put together a cut-n-paste tune or find a good-existing tune from a car they aleady did and use that as a starting point. (*Very few tuners "start from scratch", and while there is merit to saving time by using known-good cals, sometimes is leads to laziness and copy-cat tuning).

When you arrive, they flash the tune on, plug the widebands in and warm you up for a second, and begin logging. The tuner might make some changes right away, otherwise they'll load you onto the dyno

Standard procedure tends to be a 3-pull tune. First pull is safe, making sure they don't blow you up right away. Tuner will check the logs, make changes and turn the wick up for the second pull.

Second pull, then check logs and make any changes. Tuner will usually ask you something about your expectations...a good tuner will make another round of adjustments and go for a final pull. A bad tuner will attempt to fudge the correction, lock your converter in 3rd, or add a load of timing (which he then pulls out before you leave) to get you at or past whatever you expected so he looks good.

3rd pull, should be consistent with the second pull, and be focusing on dialing-in any prior changes and getting a reliable and good peak HP AND TQ number....as mentioned above, bad tuners might try to "forge" results.

At this point, a really good tuner will also make needed adjustments to shiftpoints and firmness as well as tq managment, and go on a quick 5-7 ride to verify operation and "feeling" of tune and driveability before letting you leave.

The whole process should take about 1-1.5hrs, more for forced induction or special scenario builds.

Now, if you were to leave your car at a slightly more "upscale" racing shop, they may not even allow you to be involved in the process. This is more common in supercars and exotics, but it exists in the muscle car world as well. In that case, the team of builders/tuners will operate the vehicle both on dyno and on street...while making incremental changes to the tune, or live tuning. (taking MUCH longer, and thus costing a bunch)

This is also the same manner that racers and hardcore enthusiasts use to tune their cars. Generally, we/they start with a stock tune and build it all up, adding seperate injector scalings, manually doing PE and VE tables etc. Our SD tuned cars for example, have anywhere from 4 to 40 hours of tuning in them. The 4 hr base is to get a "new" tune on the custom OS, and make it driveable and ~8.5/10 in terms of perfection. To get that same tune to 95-98% perfect, you can easily get into the 20hr range.