welder for crossmember

[Jbm1956]

Not sure if this is the right place to put this if it isnt I apologize. Im working on a 56 chevy pickup and was wanting to know can I use one of the less expensive welders from harbor freight or something similar to weld in a mustang ii crossmember. Any advice will be appreciated thank you

[maxdog51]

Don't waste your time or money on a cheap welder from harbor freight. buy a name brand welder like Lincoln or Miller that is rated to weld at least 3/8" thick steel. You want to have a solid/safe chassis. That is one place you do not want to cut corners on. I bought a decent Lincoln wire feed (MIG) welder from Home Depot for the lighter stuff. I used an old Miller stick welder for the chassis because I didn't have the MIG welder at that time. Good luck with the build.

Frank

[MiraclePieCo]

I am a mediocre welder at best. But when I replaced my Lincoln with HF's top-of-the-line 180 mig it has transformed me into an average welder!

But seriously folks, I can easily do hot rod frame construction with the HF 180.

[mr48chev]

I wouldn't waste my money buying a HF welder but if you already have an inexpensive 110V welder what you might consider is getting the front crossmember all tacked in place correctly and then taking the frame to someone who can weld it up right.

In the early 70's when I built my T bucket I would fab and tack pieces together with a little 50.00 welder from Montgomery Wards that used a self starting rod and then carried those pieces down the street to my buddies shop so he could weld them properly. He used a Lincoln 225 stick welder and was a professional welder who used a stick welder on construction almost every day at work.

You can still find those old Lincoln 225 welders pretty cheap like this one http://yakima.craigslist.org/tls/4604938474.html It has the dark red case that the older ones had meaning it should have copper windings rather than aluminum windings. Stick welding isn't quite as pretty unless you are really good but the welds are strong and if you have 220 you are set to go.

[Jbm1956]

Thats what I want to avoid is taking it to someone to help me. If I was going to do that I might as well have them do all the welding I would think. I dont know how to weld and its hard to find someone in my area that isnt ridiculously expensive. My dad can weld but weve never done a crossmember before. Ive been looking for someone in my area to do the mustang ii or camaro clip but no luck yet. So if I find a 110v and as long as it welds 3/8 inch I should be fine. Or I need a 220

[Dan in Pasadena]

Ogre will be along in five minutes to tell you he did ALL the welding on his "Truk" with a cheap flux core welder. That was his response when I mentioned in my thread I'd likely just tack in my parts with my little 110v Hobart Handler 140.

I asked IF I opted to weld it in myself would I need bigger wire than the little .023" I'm using for sheet metal rust repair. His opinion was I can use bigger wire with hotter setting s and larger puddle to accomplish goo penetration. I'm not a knowledgeable enough welder to have a feel for whether that sounds doable for me. I'll likely practice, get better and still end up calling in a certified welder to do the full welding.

PS: I'm the Construction Quality Manager for a major public agency out here in SoCal. I approve welders all the time, I hire Certified Welding Inspectors(CWI's) to inspect our contractor's work. Though I'm not a CWI myself I know good welding when I see it and I see it all the time. A couple years ago I opened up the back of my little 18x18 garage almost entirely and needed a steel frame to provide the structural rigidity of the old three sided structure in a now-2 two sided structure. I found steel (too large) on Craigslist and did THIS with a rented, generator-driven 220v welder.


Don't get me wrong, I'm a lousy welder for appearance - I'd fire me! Lol. But in terms of penetration, it's stood there for going on three years. Would it pass visual? Maybe not. There's some undercutting, but no porosity, no inclusions, no cracking and it's just fugly compared to a real welder. I've considered doing this to final weld my truck since I can't hire one of our contractor's welders without a conflict of interest but I suppose I'm too vain to have you guys look at my work and say, "Uh yeah Dan that's uh....er.....real nice" rolling your eyes and walking away! Ha ha.

[Jbm1956]

Yea getting a welder when you no nothing about welding is prob a waste of money. I can save that money and use it for the suspension or if I find someone in my area that can install it.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by Jbm1956

Yea getting a welder when you no nothing about welding is prob a waste of money....

This might be true IF you didn't own a 60+ year old truck!

I'd suggest you keep an eye on Craigslist for a used good quality mig welder to learn to use to repair sheet metal rust. You'll get better.

Not trying to offend anyone but welders aren't brain surgeons. It takes patience and practice but you can at least become proficient enough to do your own repairs. You may not become the artist with a welder that some guys are but you CAN learn to be good enough for your own purposes. That's my unsolicited $.02.

[58CameoAZ]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

This might be true IF you didn't own a 60+ year old truck!

I'd suggest you keep an eye on Craigslist for a used good quality mig welder to learn to use to repair sheet metal rust. You'll get better.

Not trying to offend anyone but welders aren't brain surgeons. It takes patience and practice but you can at least become proficient enough to do your own repairs. You may not become the artist with a welder that some guys are but you CAN learn to be good enough for your own purposes. That's my unsolicited $.02.

Hey Dan, When i weld, i always see myself as a BRAIN SURGEON. Ha Ha Lol...

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Ogre will be along in five minutes to tell you he did ALL the welding on his "Truk" with a cheap flux core welder. That was his response when I mentioned in my thread I'd likely just tack in my parts with my little 110v Hobart Handler 140.

sorry dan if i'm late to the party
i did weld most of truk with fluxcore wire and a 110 volt, lincoln weldpack 100
the fatman mustII x-member was 1/4'' thick, i had no problems welding it in truk
25,000 miles in the last 4 years says something about the quality of welding i got from that lincoln welder

Originally Posted by STOCKISH

Ive never understood why people insist on a 220V welder to weld a crossmember or something in. The frame is 1/8 (.120 wall at best) and the crossmembers are 3/16 at the most.

stockish said it better than i could have. nothing on a vehicle is over 1/4'', 110 volt welders can weld 1/4'' steel fine.
you can weld thicker steel using correctly beveled steel and multiple passes

Originally Posted by Jbm1956

Yea getting a welder when you no nothing about welding is prob a waste of money.

no time like the present to learn a new skill
home depot has some decent welders on the cheap
lincoln weld pack fluxcore only for $269
but if you step up to this $349 lincoln handy mig welder you can do both fluxcore and mig with the addition of a gas bottle

neither one will do structural bridge welding, but both will weld anything steel on a vehicle
yes these welders have a 10% or 20% duty cycle, i have never hit the duty cycle limit on my lincoln weld pack

i did not buy any motor mount kits or trans x-member kits or front accessory kits,
with a welder you don't need to buy kit, you make your own, it keeps the build costs down

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by _Ogre

sorry dan if i'm late to the party ...

SLACKER!

Almost made a liar outta me.

[Donaldo]

jbm1956 - I'm sure there are plenty of oil field/auto mech. / certified welders with remote rigs from that area that would be happy to help you out - Lots of welders and gear heads around Bakersfield, and it is something you want done right the first time !!

[Jbm1956]

Im trying to do all my homework like all the measurements and whatever ekse is needed that way if I do find someone. I can have it in the right spot and they can weld the crossmember and hats on and they will be done. I can bolt everything else on myself. Is it really as east as measure 20 7/8 from the front shackle bolt and weld it in

[Speedbumpauto]

Congrats on the do it yourself attitude. Look on Craigs List for a Lincoln WeldPac 120 but the slightly smaller 100 is what I use on a regular basis and a 140 would be even better. Use flux core wire as it runs hotter and get handy with a wire brush to make sure your weld surface is clean. Do your measuring and tack your stuff together with your welder. It's almost as easy as measuring but I would absolutely trial fit the cab/dog house after doing the tacks and loosely installing the suspension so you can put the wheels and tires on and check the wheels being in the center of the wheel opening. That's the beauty of the tacks. If it's not exactly where your eye says it's right, you cut the tacks and move it until it's correct. The other beauty of the tacks, besides you did it yourself, is you will save a bunch of money if your hired welder only has to weld what's there and doesn't have to fabricate, measure or clean. The absolute hardest thing on a project like this is overcoming your own fear. You CAN do this with a cautious but positive attitude.

[tlorber]

I bought a 110 volt wire welder from Eastwood for $300.00 shipped, and I get a ton of use out of it. This will either go with gas shielding or flux core. Gas shielding gives a much cleaner weld but flux core is better for welding outside (in wind) and you get a bit hotter arc with it. In flux core mode I can weld 1/4"-maybe 5/16" on a good day. Heavier than that I''ll pull out a 220v stick welder.

However, I have found that on the cars and truck, I am rarely welding thicker than 3/16". In fact the main challenge I have is the thin stuff like body sheet metal. In my opinion it takes more skill to weld these without burning through than the thicker stuff.

[franken]

I'll second the troll CL and find a 180 or more 240V MIG setup. If you want to weld on frames, it seems the way to go.

Also, practice on scrap and test the welds before doing structural work. Its not that tough to get a decent looking weld, but getting a quality weld is not as easy as it may seem.

Does anyone want a crossmember coming loose at 60MPH?

[STOCKISH]

pic, this is 1/4"

[franken]

Originally Posted by STOCKISH

pic, this is 1/4"

Ok, now show us one of your welds after testing it to failure. Nothing else proves anything.

[STOCKISH]

Originally Posted by franken

Ok, now show us one of your welds after testing it to failure. Nothing else proves anything.

Ill see if there is anything in my scrap bucket that I cut/beat off after I decided I didnt like it. I am not a pro and dont weld for a living but when I decide I dont like something and remove it it always tears the metal before the weld thinks about breaking. Again, Im not a pro, but I dont see needing anyrhing more than a 140A 110v welder for welding a chassis. .120 wall doesnt require much to melt it.

[iowaboynca]

It seems like this thread is turning in to *whips it out to measure thread*...

1.) Skill/Talent level- I agree with whoever said practice practice practice...cuz that's what this guy will be doing. (Me as i haven't picked up a welder since my Dad's Vo-Ag class in 15 yrs.)

2.) Welders- look at what today's project needs and what tomorrow's may need, i.e. if you want to start building 4x4 roll cages, the 110v may not cut it.

3.) What Ogre said...

4.) Ability (on top of #1)- If at the end of day you don't feel good about your ability, find someone who is. (Mr 48 suggested as such). Just don't quit. Some of the language in this thread can come off as discouraging. To Dan's point it isn't brain surgery, it's a little easier than that, but at the same time it's a little harder that running fries at Mc....

[STOCKISH]

Ive never understood why people insist on a 220V welder to weld a crossmember or something in. The frame is 1/8 (.120 wall at best) and the crossmembers are 3/16 at the most. I weld 1/4 wall with my Hobart 140 all day and have enough penetration that the HAZE is 1-2 inches out on each side of the weld. I use .030 wire, voltage turned all the way up and wire speed slowed down. Take your time, weld slow, and youll be just fine.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by STOCKISH

Ive never understood why people insist on a 220V welder to weld a crossmember or something in. The frame is 1/8 (.120 wall at best) and the crossmembers are 3/16 at the most. I weld 1/4 wall with my Hobart 140 all day and have enough penetration that the HAZE is 1-2 inches out on each side of the weld. I use .030 wire, voltage turned all the way up and wire speed slowed down. Take your time, weld slow, and youll be just fine.

Excellent info since I have the same welder as you do, thanks!

Just curious, if you weld in a crossmember (like I may need to/want to) would you use ArCO2 gas? I ask cause that's what I'm using when I do sheet metal repair on my truck.

[Donaldo]

I don't think discoloration by over heating is a sign of weld penetration, instead it could be an indicator of a weakening of the base metal and the possibility of it becoming brittle around the weld.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by Donaldo

I don't think discoloration by over heating is a sign of weld penetration, instead it could be an indicator of a weakening of the base metal and the possibility of it becoming brittle around the weld.

You're right that color change isn't a sign of weld penetration but what's shown in that picture to me is NOT "overheating". It's a fairly typical color change in the heat affected zone (HAZ).

I'm not. Weld engineer but I work with them every day and I'm fairly certain that I CAN accomplish good penetration within right joint prep - bevels and for this relatively thin materials don't even think pre heating would be necessary. Speaking for me, I just want better looking welds that my limited talents are able to produce.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Double post, sorry...idiot at the keyboard! Lol