17 and Buying a Truck! '72 C20 4X4

[Cam-Shaft]

So I am 17 and buying my first truck. I have a deal worked out for this and will be picking it up within the next few weeks. It is a 1972 C20 with the 327 and Manuel transmission.

Some questions I have:

1) Why is it four wheel drive? I thought C stood for 2 wheel drive, but it is obviously four.
2) Why is the grill kind of unuiqe? I seem to find another truck that has the chevy emblem on the hood instead of the grill.
3) What transmission does it have? I think its 3 speed with a granny? not to sure on that.

Let me know what I've gotten myself into! I like the look of this old beaut and look forward to learning more about it.

[OlSmokey]

Well I can definitely answer your second question.

It's because the ones with the Chevy emblem on the front is exclusive to 1972 trucks. Same with the plastic grilles.

(PS. This is coming from a fellow 17 year old with a 1972 C10 Good luck with it and have fun!)

[Cam-Shaft]

Thanks for the answer, I appreciate it!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Cam-Shaft

Thanks for the answer, I appreciate it!

I don't see a rear view mirror hanging down from the top of the truck. If it has screw-holes from the mirror being removed, then it's likely not a 72. If it does NOT have any evidence of ever having a rear view mirror, then it was at one time glued onto the windshield and the cab is a 72 for sure. I'm talking about the mirror that goes between the visors.

It could simply be a C20 front clip on a C10 72 4WD.

BTW, how do you know it's a 327? Can you take a picture of the inside of the glovebox door and post it?

[Nitis]

Actually 71 had bow tie in grill also

I doubt it's a 72 doors are wrong and too many 69/70 correct items like fender badging and grill.

If it's a true 4x4 it will have a K in the beginning of the vin

Looks like a project for sure good luck!

[TheCougarine]

1971 trucks also had the bowtie in the grille. Your truck seems to have a 69-70 front, are you sure its a 72?. Also from what I understand all trucks had c10 c20 ect. badges regardless of 2wd or 4wd. But anyway 4wd would make it a k10 which the vin would tell you.

Edit Nitis beat me to it haha

[67swb72klb]

a 72 will have disc brakes on the front

[In The Ten Ring]

You've gotten yourself a can of worms but so has just about everyone else on here.

Front end is definitely 1969 or 1970. 327 was not standard for 1972 although I could easily be wrong.

What I like about your truck:

1). It's going to be yours. That's the main thing. If you utterly have a fail there it's still your fail and you can part it out.

2). 4wd. I wish mine was.

3). Long wheel base. I wish mine was.

4). Manual in floor....I sometimes wish mine was.

5). Bench seat. Bench seats ROCK. My truck has a bench seat and let me tell you, when I was in high school and driving my truck on dates.......BENCH SEATS OWN. If you can't figure out why.......your GF will know I bet.

6). You have a 327. People go nuts over that engine.

7). You have 4 matching hubcaps and what appears to be a spare wheel. That's very good.

The real bad:

1). Does it run? Does the engine turn over by hand?

2). You have a cracked windshield but people replace those and people on here will help.

3). You've got bad rust going on but again, people will help and it's common. My truck is full of bondo actually from likely the same amount of rust.

There's my 2 cents (.25 cents actually). LOL

Congrats man and I hope you enjoy it.

[stsalvage]

Just to post it the Alternator top bracket is on wrong but other then that Nice truck

[Stocker]

Welcome to the boards! Most of your questions have been answered and you'll probably have more.... you found the right place, there's an awful lot of knowledgable, helpful folks here. Unless the front clip has been changed, it looks like a 1969 or 1970. Check the front brakes -- '71 was the first year for front discs. Probably has a 4-speed with a granny low. Can you post a pic of the SPID?

[68350]

I can tell from pictures it has half ton axles for sure. Like others have said, it appears to be a 69 or 70 body. What's the first part of the Vin number(no need to post the last 6 which are the sequence number). If you look at passenger side of the motor, there will be a flat area right in front of the head. There should be a 2 or 3 digit code which will decode the engine. Most likely a 4 speed(3 speed with granny low). Looks like a sweet start!

[72MARIO]

Looks like a 67 glove box door too. Great truck to start with does it have disk or drum brakes up front ?

[Cam-Shaft]

Wow! Thanks everyone for the response! Last time I looked at it I didn't pay too much attention to the details, I was in a rush and just took the pictures. I am going thursday afternoon to really see what I am getting into. Hopefully it will be coming home this weekend or the next!

The engine does run, he said it is in great condition. I know it's missing a few parts, will my parts off my dad's old 350sb fit on it?

I will definitely be asking how to replace the windshield and take care of the rust. I'm looking forward to this project and the support offered here! I will take down the vin number when I go back as the guy (scrap yard) could very well have gotten the year/engine size down wrong. It will be a winter project, my goal is to have it road worthy and looking good for early may.

Again, thanks guys! I'll let you know what I find out!

[MARKDTN]

I doubt it's a 327. All 327s had oil fill into the intake. I know you can swap valve covers, but I bet it's a 350. Really makes little difference anyway. Most small block parts will bolt right on either one.

The rust looks bad in the photos. At least 1 door, fender, both rockers. Can't tell in the interior shot if that's rust above the drivers visor or what.

Few tips for you:
1-be sure you can get a clean title, junkyard cars CAN be tricky to get back on the road depending on how long off the road, how obtained, leins on title, what kind of business they are, bill-of-sale in a title State, etc. All of that can be overcome with enough time and money but take that into account.

2-if the cab is rusted above the visor, I would look for something else. You probably don't want to do a cab swap. Also look at the frame. Be sure the frame isn't rusty. Floors look OK, but how about cab corners?

3-how is the front axle and transfer case? 4wd is a whole another world.

4-why was it parked?

Mind if I ask how much this jewel costs? I have nothing against this deal if that is what you want. If it is as bad as it kinda looks you will learn a lot about body work and mechanicals. When I was 17 I could have handled this project. Some can't and it burns them out to working on cars for a lifetime. I guess all I am trying to say is know what you are getting into. Be prepared for it to cost 2-3 times what you estimate.

Again, if you know that is what you want and are prepared to do it. Go for it.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Cam-Shaft

Wow! Thanks everyone for the response! Last time I looked at it I didn't pay too much attention to the details, I was in a rush and just took the pictures. I am going thursday afternoon to really see what I am getting into. Hopefully it will be coming home this weekend or the next!

The engine does run, he said it is in great condition. I know it's missing a few parts, will my parts off my dad's old 350sb fit on it?

I will definitely be asking how to replace the windshield and take care of the rust. I'm looking forward to this project and the support offered here! I will take down the vin number when I go back as the guy (scrap yard) could very well have gotten the year/engine size down wrong. It will be a winter project, my goal is to have it road worthy and looking good for early may.

Again, thanks guys! I'll let you know what I find out!

Yes, parts off a 350 will fit. Regardless of what you were told, if you can't verify the engine's condition, it's not wise to pay more than the price for a salvage core. Sounds like you want to hear it run before you buy it? Good move.

According to my research, 327 engines were still manufactured in 69 but I don't think they were offered in trucks that year being replaced by 350's. I am 100% sure you could get them in Impala's and Camaro's. IF you can get to the back of the engine on the block just below the back of the driver's side head and get the casting number we can identify it for you.

Make SURE the title matches the VIN on the door jamb drivers side. Also, according to some posts on this forum, some states require that the frame numbers match too, but I don't know which one/s but it seems to be east coast.

Mixed/matched parts can still make a nice truck but you have to have title to whatever parts are required to match numbers wise.

If it's as rusted as I think it is, the cab will probably not be save-able. Take a good look at the area around the windshield, floor, etc. Usually a rusted windshield surround means leakage and leakage means a rusted out firewall. That driver's door looks like it's about gone, I'd look her over real well.

Check the frame for rust/cracks especially around the leaf spring perches (mounts).

If you are serious about buying it, bring a friend and take "X" measurements on the frame rails. The "X" measurements for the entire length of the frame need to be close to equal but talk to another board member or a body/frame man to know how close they need to be.

Beware all the rust.
Beware correct title/vin.
Beware frame condition.

IF it's as rusted as I think it is, and IF the price is right (I mean really right) it might make a good parts truck IF you want a 4WD.

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

...According to my research, 327 engines were still manufactured in 69 but I don't think they were offered in trucks that year being replaced by 350's. I am 100% sure you could get them in Impala's and Camaro's...

That is partially right. 327 was introduced in 1962 as a small journal like all 283s. In 1968 the large journal 327 was introduced. The last year for a 327 in a pickup was 1968. The last year for a 327 in a Camaro or Corvette was 1968. The Impala did seem to carry over to 1969 at least part year. I can find no application for a 327 in the bigger than C30 trucks past 1968 either. So really 1968 was the last year with any volume.

The '68 up large journal 327 block is a 4" bore and is the same as a 350 block. The 327 was never offered as a 4 bolt main engine even in Corvette or Camaro, but you can build one with a 4-bolt 350 block. The 307 basically replaced the 327 (although 68 B-bodies were available with both 307 and 327). The 307 and 327 share crankshaft stroke. There is a forged large journal 327 crank available in the higher horse motors.

Hope that helps clarify.

OP-to really know I you have a 350 or 327 you would have to measure the stroke. I think you have bigger issues to decide than which engine is in there. Either one is fine for a driver.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by MARKDTN

That is partially right. 327 was introduced in 1962 as a small journal like all 283s. In 1968 the large journal 327 was introduced. The last year for a 327 in a pickup was 1968. The last year for a 327 in a Camaro or Corvette was 1968. The Impala did seem to carry over to 1969 at least part year. I can find no application for a 327 in the bigger than C30 trucks past 1968 either. So really 1968 was the last year with any volume.

The '68 up large journal 327 block is a 4" bore and is the same as a 350 block. The 327 was never offered as a 4 bolt main engine even in Corvette or Camaro, but you can build one with a 4-bolt 350 block. The 307 basically replaced the 327 (although 68 B-bodies were available with both 307 and 327). The 307 and 327 share crankshaft stroke. There is a forged large journal 327 crank available in the higher horse motors.

Hope that helps clarify.

OP-to really know I you have a 350 or 327 you would have to measure the stroke. I think you have bigger issues to decide than which engine is in there. Either one is fine for a driver.

Clarify what? So, if it's "partially right", what part of it is wrong? Be specific.

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Clarify what? So, if it's "partially right", what part of it is wrong? Be specific.

Upon a bit more research I was wrong. 327 was available in 69 Camaro, but it was early production (probably 1968 Calendar year). I apologize.

[Mike C]

Originally Posted by MARKDTN

That is partially right. 327 was introduced in 1962 as a small journal like all 283s. In 1968 the large journal 327 was introduced. The last year for a 327 in a pickup was 1968. The last year for a 327 in a Camaro or Corvette was 1968. The Impala did seem to carry over to 1969 at least part year. I can find no application for a 327 in the bigger than C30 trucks past 1968 either. So really 1968 was the last year with any volume.

1969 Camaro, maybe Nova as well, the base motor was a 327 until January of 1969 when it switched to the 307. 68 was last year for filler in the manifold, 69 would have had mandatory PCV at that point. I would think light duty trucks followed that pattern. The '69 short step in my driveway doesn't have the filler in the manifold.

[MARKDTN]

Originally Posted by Mike C

1969 Camaro, maybe Nova as well, the base motor was a 327 until January of 1969 when it switched to the 307. 68 was last year for filler in the manifold, 69 would have had mandatory PCV at that point. I would think light duty trucks followed that pattern. The '69 short step in my driveway doesn't have the filler in the manifold.

OK, I was wrong on 69 Camaro. I have learned a bit in the last week that I didn't know before. Here is what I now know about 327s.

1967 was the last year for small journal 327 (and 283). In 1968 model year the large journal 327 was introduced. It did away with the road draft tube provision at the back of the block. 327 was available in 1968 in:
Trucks
Camaro
Chevelle/Malibu
Corvette
Impala/Caprice/etc.
Nova

1968 was the last year for 327 in trucks, Nova, Chevelle, and Corvette

In 1969 the 327 was only available in Camaro and Impala/Caprice etc. From what I can tell it was only a partial year, perhaps until January of 1969. I can find no records of 327 availability in 1969 Nova, Chevelle, Corvette, or trucks. I base this on info from places like oldride.com, the GM heritage center online docs, mortec.com, and similar sites.

As far as the oil fill, you can definitely get a through manifold oil fill with PCV. See:
http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/sh...d/292837/pid//

These could be used with the script valve covers with no provision for holes.
I can't speak to 1969 usage of this, but I had a 68 Impala 327 with oil fill through intake and a breather valve cover on 1 side and a pcv valve cover on the other like:
http://www.scottlewisonline.com/imag..._ss_mint_3.jpg

1969 may have replaced the intake oil fill with valve cover fill. I don't know.

Again, I see no evidence of a factory 4-bolt 327. Lots of urban legends, but no verifiable facts. They are easy to build and I am sure many have been with a 4-bolt 350 block and the correct crankshaft.

Hopefully this will put this to bed. Besides, who builds a 327 anymore that is not in a full restoration? Lot of people with large journal 327s in those 68s and early 69s turned them into 355s at rebuild time with a 350 crank and new pistons in their freshly bored block. Same rods, balancer, flexplate/flywheel, etc. If the VIN and engine codes are machined off the pad you can't visually tell a 350 from a 327 (or 302 for that matter) anyway because they all use 4" bore blocks-which is what my original reply in this post was intended to show.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Cam-Shaft

So I am 17 and buying my first truck. I have a deal worked out for this and will be picking it up within the next few weeks. It is a 1972 C20 with the 327 and Manuel transmission.

Some questions I have:

1) Why is it four wheel drive? I thought C stood for 2 wheel drive, but it is obviously four.
2) Why is the grill kind of unuiqe? I seem to find another truck that has the chevy emblem on the hood instead of the grill.
3) What transmission does it have? I think its 3 speed with a granny? not to sure on that.

Let me know what I've gotten myself into! I like the look of this old beaut and look forward to learning more about it.

That's a 4 speed, with 1st gear "granny" low. Three speeds were column shift, never seen one on a 4WD but that don't mean they don't exist.

Looks like the entire passenger side and part of the driver's side front of the truck has been repaired, probably bondo-ed. Use a magnet to see if it's metal or bondo.

Now, whatever rust you see on the driver's side was probably the same as what is hidden on the passenger side.

So, if it's bondo (I'd bet on it), it would be considerably harder to fix that side correctly than it would be to fix the very rusted driver's side.

Also, keep in mind that rust is ALWAYS worse than it looks. Read some build threads and you will understand this. Once you start sanding/stripping you find a lot of ugly hiding under a precarious layer of paint or bondo.

It appears to have a metal bed, so you MUST remove that bed-liner that does not fit and inspect the bed floor. A good bed floor is a very usable/sellable salvage part. You might get lucky on that one, if it had a camper on it for most of it's life.

Check the frame rails in the area of the gap between the cab and the bed.

Looks like the entire body is shot beyond reasonable repair.

If you can get this thing running, and it's solid frame and mechanical, I'd advise getting another entire truck for a donor body. But again, body must match title. Don't know the laws in your state, don't know if you can mix/match body/frame, don't know if you could get a new title if you had title to the existing frame and title to a replacement body (cab).

Make sure you can do whatever you want to do, legally.

[SS Tim]

With the t case lever on the left I'd say it was a 69 with a Rockwell T-211 t case. That being the case it probably still has the drum brake front.
The fact that it was used as a plow (note the joystick) would be a very heavy detractor even on a nice truck. Being 17 I see this as a money pit full of hard to find parts needing a lot of work. Like most I'm sure you want a nice truck for minimal investment and I don't see it here. Being in a salvage yard I would also suggest looking well into the title, engine numbers, bodytag (rivets) and the frame first.

Links you will probably need.

* VIN/Model Decoders
* Power Team Charts (engine/transmission/gear ratio)
* Post Your Pickup SPID Blazer SPID Suburban/Panel SPID
* RTFM ... Read The Factory Manuals... download 'em here

[Cam-Shaft]

Thanks again guys, going to look very carefully at it this Thursday. I will take everything into account that you mentioned and will keep you posted. I know all about money pits, I had a "500" dollar front end loader project that ended up at 3500$

Will keep you posted!

[dmack91]

A good rule of thumb on projects is be realistic in you estimates of time and money. Then, multiply the $$ estimate by 3 and the time estimate by 4, and you will generally be in the ballpark.

[67ChevyRedneck]

If I see what I think I see... the area above the windshield and the drip rails are completely shot. Not uncommon for your neck of the woods. It looks to me like she's only worth a few hundred bucks... and that's if it runs.

I would buy the truck as a fun 4x4 to learn on. I wouldn't get big dreams of a restored truck for this one.

As a former rust belt teenager, I'll be the first to tell you that chicken wire/wire mesh, or any crap shoved behind rust covered in bondo will look like crap within 6 months and is a complete waste of time. If you do plan on rust repair, do it right, or don't bother. However, if there are holes in the cab, do seal those up however you can, you don't want to be sucking in exhaust fumes.