new low budget engine build

[72kool]

Ok so after alot of reading and research on here,i wanted to start a new updated thread on a budget build. I read an article where they built a junk yard 350 with $500 a 300hp goal. They fell just short at a respectable 283hp.

With everybodies knowledge on here, what could be done to build a 350 hp 350c.i sbc for $1000. Id be interested in doing such a build to my own engine,which is original to my truck, to see how it would come out. I do not have any specs at this time,no casting numbers or any other specs other than its a 1972 gmc c20 custom camper 350 c.i with a 4barrel quadjet carb,complete stock except its been upgraded to hei dist. It has 66000 miles and was a farm truck for the po grandpa.it was not driven hard and has been a great runner.So how bout it? What could be done to reach this goal? Thanks!

[Husker]

Interested in this also. I am going with Vortex heads( already have a set).
Not trying to hijack.
Ron

[big bad orange]

If I had to guess maybe be a cam, junkyard vortex heads. Of course you would need a new intake to use a carb with vortex heads I believe. But other people would be better suited to answere this question.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by big bad orange

If I had to guess maybe be a cam, junkyard vortex heads. Of course you would need a new intake to use a carb with vortex heads I believe. But other people would be better suited to answere this question.

X2. With only 66K on the engine this is the perfect upgrade to easily meet his goals.

[tcrist]

You can get 350 HP very easy. Simple stroker kit, rework the heads and a new intake and carb.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

With everybodies knowledge on here, what could be done to build a 350 hp 350c.i sbc for $1000. Id be interested in doing such a build to my own engine,which is original to my truck, to see how it would come out. I do not have any specs at this time,no casting numbers or any other specs other than its a 1972 gmc c20 custom camper 350 c.i with a 4barrel quadjet carb,complete stock except its been upgraded to hei dist. It has 66000 miles and was a farm truck for the po grandpa.it was not driven hard and has been a great runner.So how bout it? What could be done to reach this goal? Thanks!

Are you going to run headers? Do you have a/c?

[72kool]

What specificly? Which cam,intake,carb? Ik there is alot missing but trying to get a good idea.i would like to run headers but have ram horns now.it will be dual 2 or 2 1/2 exhaust.no a/c it does have p/b and p/s

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

What specificly? Which cam,intake,carb? Ik there is alot missing but trying to get a good idea.i would like to run headers but have ram horns now.it will be dual 2 or 2 1/2 exhaust.no a/c it does have p/b and p/s

Any headers except "block hugger" (restrictive), 2.5" pipes with a crossover tube.

OK I have to narrow it down a bit more. Would you like to use your stock short-block without pulling the pistons? 66,000 is fairly low mileage if well maintained. Not sure how it was worked on the farm. Not sure what you want to use it for now.

1. If you are going to preserve the short block as is, I'd go vortec heads and new cam.

2. If you are going to re-do the whole engine, I'd go 383 and re-do the heads that are on it. You would have to expand your budget to do that though.

3. Is it 2WD or 4WD? 4WD would love the 383.

Let me know what way you want to go, how you are going to use it and I'll make some parts/camshaft recommendations.

[71K20chevy]

It'll be pretty hard to hit 350 hp with $1000. The 350's were rated at 250 hp (actually it was about 180 with all the smog crap in place), you'd definitely need heads (Vortec for sure), and a cam (but not too big!) and a good exhaust system, might not hit 350 hp but you should come fairly close.

[tcrist]

Here are some info off of a Dyno sheet for a 351W I had in my Cobra Replica. You should still be able to compare them to a 350 Chevy.

Block:
350 bored 30 over makes 358 CI, 9.5-1 compression pistons.

Cam:
Gross valve lift at 509 intake & 512 exhaust, duration 224 intake & 230 exhaust.

Heads:
1.83 intake / 1.500 exhaust
60 cc chamber

Intake:
Edelbrock-RPM

Carb:
Edelbrock 750

=352 HP with 414 TQ, Nice simple street-able engine

[trac209]

My advise is to spend a bit more and make sure you get what you want out of it. A set of procomp aluminum heads with a dual plane 4 barrel and a decent cam which you have to buy anyhow will get you to 350 hp

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by trac209

My advise is to spend a bit more and make sure you get what you want out of it. A set of procomp aluminum heads with a dual plane 4 barrel and a decent cam which you have to buy anyhow will get you to 350 hp

[72kool]

Itvis a 2wd 3/4 ton.it was used to drive around the farm by the retired grandpa.it hauled a load every now and then. I use it to drive to work and haul a load or pull a trailer now and then. Im wanting to have some get up when cruisin and have some good torque when pulling. The goal is to keep the block untouched.no machine work or bore.more like cam,intake,maybe carb and heads. All parts that can be pullex and stock put back on if desired to keep original.i dnt think it to be a hard task if they can do that for 500 a few years back and half the money.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

Itvis a 2wd 3/4 ton.it was used to drive around the farm by the retired grandpa.it hauled a load every now and then. I use it to drive to work and haul a load or pull a trailer now and then. Im wanting to have some get up when cruisin and have some good torque when pulling. The goal is to keep the block untouched.no machine work or bore.more like cam,intake,maybe carb and heads. All parts that can be pullex and stock put back on if desired to keep original.i dnt think it to be a hard task if they can do that for 500 a few years back and half the money.

Is the exhaust budgeted into the $1,000?

Any reason you might not want to use the original quadrajet? If you go with Edelbrock Performer vortec intake you can get the Edelbrock choke linkage rod to go with it for your quadrajet. Just put a repair kit in the carb to keep in line with the budget.

So I guess it's on you to find a set of Vortec heads, some headers and an exhaust system (or muffler shop) if you want to stay on budget.

Then this cam $120.97
http://www.summitracing.com/search/p...5%2B4294881174
These lifters $52.33
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-DELPHI-L...662d12&vxp=mtr
This timing set $28.97
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Competition-...3b508b&vxp=mtr
This intake $199.97
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...make/chevrolet
Gaskets $24.97
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-7235/overview/
Bolts $22.97
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-8516/overview/
Head gaskets $17.94
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fe...make/chevrolet
Head bolts $33.97
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/na...5499/overview/
Pan gasket $24.97
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fe...make/chevrolet
Timing gasket set with bolts $10.97
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mi...make/chevrolet
Rear main seal $9.97
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fe...make/chevrolet

That's 519.00. Not counting exhaust system, you still need heads, rockers, valve covers, etc. Not much room for heads in this budget, depending on your own capabilities if you can score some junkyard or craigslist parts. If you want new or rebuilt heads you will likely go over budget but some deals on e-bay and such you might do OK. For instance rebuilt and some new ones on e-bay:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw...s&_sacat=33549

I say look for some heads first so you know how much money is left to do the other stuff. You can save a few bucks and not replace the oil pan gasket/rear main seal, but you will likely create a leak if you don't.

Or consider just swapping out the heads for a set of aerohead 65cc non-vortec rebuilt heads, perfomer intake, and a cheap cam . The Lunati is the only cam that will come close to your 350HP with headers (I think you would be happy with 300-325HP IMHO), and it's expensive. You can get a cheap Summit cam for just over $50.00, but whatever you do if you replace cam use the Delphi lifters only. You would end up just under 300HP without headers but I think you would be happy.

[72kool]

Thanks for the info mechanicalman.thats alot of help and good information for others also for futur refrence.exactly what i was hoping for. For my own engine i would be keeping the quadjet carb.i had it rebuilt by a guy who built them for stock cars. It really does good now. The exhaust would not be factored into the budget on my simply because thats part of what i do for a living. But something for others to consider because it would have an effect on the total output of power. Also, because of where i work i can get alot of parts cheaper, what heads would be recomended that would be best to consider on a budget like this if some of the other parts recomended were already purchased outside of this $1000 budget? I want this thread to help others with their trucks on a tight budget also and not just for my truck. Thanks for all the info guys!

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

Thanks for the info mechanicalman.thats alot of help and good information for others also for futur refrence.exactly what i was hoping for. For my own engine i would be keeping the quadjet carb.i had it rebuilt by a guy who built them for stock cars. It really does good now. The exhaust would not be factored into the budget on my simply because thats part of what i do for a living. But something for others to consider because it would have an effect on the total output of power. Also, because of where i work i can get alot of parts cheaper, what heads would be recomended that would be best to consider on a budget like this if some of the other parts recomended were already purchased outside of this $1000 budget? I want this thread to help others with their trucks on a tight budget also and not just for my truck. Thanks for all the info guys!

How much $ can you budget for the heads, rockers, valve covers? Can you get wholesale rates on machine shop work for the heads?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

Thanks for the info mechanicalman.thats alot of help and good information for others also for futur refrence.exactly what i was hoping for. For my own engine i would be keeping the quadjet carb.i had it rebuilt by a guy who built them for stock cars. It really does good now. The exhaust would not be factored into the budget on my simply because thats part of what i do for a living. But something for others to consider because it would have an effect on the total output of power. Also, because of where i work i can get alot of parts cheaper, what heads would be recomended that would be best to consider on a budget like this if some of the other parts recomended were already purchased outside of this $1000 budget? I want this thread to help others with their trucks on a tight budget also and not just for my truck. Thanks for all the info guys!

Well if you are an exhaust tech and doing it yourself, that should be the crown jewel of this truck mod. I'm talking headers, 2.5" duals with X pipe and flowmaster mufflers. Use the torch and cut out your cross-member then get about a 8" of 5" steel pipe stock, cut it in half and weld it into your cross-member and route your pipes through the cross-member. The guy in the first picture has the exhaust angled down too low in the front, I'd use medium length headers. I don't think the guy in the bottom picture used big enough pipe welded into the cross-member. If you do it this way, then the exhaust will be flush or above the frame so you never have to worry about the exhaust dragging even if you lower the truck in the future. YES, you can lower a C20 and it's still cool. You have the unique quality to make this mod and this will make the engine breath throughout the entire RPM band.

Make sure you have a free breathing air filter and an enclosed air filter housing with a big fresh air tube feeding it off the driver's side of the core support. Take the washer jar and simply move it to the driver's side fender to get it off the core support out of the way. Yeah, while you got your torch hot cutting the rear cross-member scribe and cut out a hole for your air tube.

This would be ideal
http://www.spectreperformance.com/se...spx?prod=98678
Or if on the budget this from a junk yard will flow fairly well with air tube.

[72kool]

It all depends on the item but mostly its just over store cost from napa,carquest,advanced,orielly and a few local stores.so whatever they carry or do is just over their cost

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

It all depends on the item but mostly its just over store cost from napa,carquest,advanced,orielly and a few local stores.so whatever they carry or do is just over their cost

Well then, see if you can find the heads, rockers, and valve covers used then have the heads gone through (cleaned/magnafluxed, valves seated, new seals, MINOR resurface only and only if needed). Tell them just "kiss" the surface you want less than .005" removed if possible. Tell them to take the worst warped head of the two and barely clean it up then mill the other one to match.

How much of your budget can you dedicate to the heads, rockers and valve covers? Reason I'm asking, you might be able to get new or very good rebuilt heads instead of used and speed up/simplify things.

[72kool]

I like the exhaust mod idea. Now that i see im sure thats how it will go plus a few of my own touches. The air will be a cold air/ forced air intake. Idk how it will be routed yet but thats what i was wanting to do. Quick question thoe, has anybody found a place or way to have gmc valve covers made? I dont want to have plain valve covers nor chevrolet. Really qould like that little touch to the engine.ik the cost isnt there but for future final touches im curious about it

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by 72kool

I like the exhaust mod idea. Now that i see im sure thats how it will go plus a few of my own touches. The air will be a cold air/ forced air intake. Idk how it will be routed yet but thats what i was wanting to do. Quick question thoe, has anybody found a place or way to have gmc valve covers made? I dont want to have plain valve covers nor chevrolet. Really qould like that little touch to the engine.ik the cost isnt there but for future final touches im curious about it

I see what you mean, they don't really make them that I can find.

I'd maybe get a set of smooth aluminum ones and stencil the letters GMC?

Or, if you know someone good with a heli-arc, you could get a set of un-polished "fabricated" valve covers and have "GMC" welded in. Yeah, that'd be cool, one-of-a-kind.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-Chevy-V8...88f61f&vxp=mtr

A small problem is if they don't have oil filler, crankcase vent or PCV holes. Obtain the proper sized grommets, drill/de-burr to fit them, then install these.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/bs...fVMaAoKi8P8HAQ

[72kool]

Thats an interesting idea i never thought of before. Have you ever seen anybody weld letters on them before?? Anybody know what other gmc owners are doing or whats common? Dont particularly want to do whats common either. Nothing wrong with it,just like my own touches

[tcrist]

My valve covers are blank. Never thought about GMC letters on or in them before.

I might just think of a way to emboss them instead of welding.

What do you think would be best. Emboss the letters being recessed into the valve cover or emboss the letter out?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by tcrist

My valve covers are blank. Never thought about GMC letters on or in them before.

I might just think of a way to emboss them instead of welding.

What do you think would be best. Emboss the letters being recessed into the valve cover or emboss the letter out?

I was just getting ready to make a post to suggest getting imaginative with the lettering; my haphazard idea to stencil the letters on was lame.

I like the embossing idea it's elegant. The stock steel valve covers would be a good set for the embossing, I would think but I know nothing of embossing metal. I'm thinking aluminum can be embossed as well but I don't know much about it.

I do believe that you could contact this company and buy a embossing die with the letters "GMC".
http://www.columbiamt.com/CMT-Markin...sing_Dies.html

I think better to emboss out, otherwise I think they might be hard to clean but hey what are q-tips for anyway? No, don't stick them in your ears LOL

Different die for stamping inward vs outward.

I wonder if embossing a valve cover after it's already stamped out would cause any distortion? I don't know if they do it after the cover is stamped out or part of the initial stamp.

Imagine GMC stamped in the middle of the stock covers.

[72kool]

If you got them embossed, i would go out with them.if they were inward it could be a pain to keep clean/neat