Some questions please

[GMJimmy]

I recently bought a 70 Chevy C10 step side from a guy who lets say isn't a friend any longer. Shouldn't have trusted him but I'll spare everybody the details. What I'm working on at the moment is the front brakes. Seems this twit decided to re drill the 6 lug rotors and install studs in the 5X5 pattern. Well this didn't go very well because he used 3/8 studs and they weren't long enough. Anyway I found this before the wheels fell off and replaced the rotors with 1975 C10 5X5 1/2" stud rotors. The only thing I'm not really satisfied with is the brake hoses. They seem to be a little short and I have nothing to go on to prove they are stock or not. Could someone post a picture of a stock 70 front suspension showing the brakes so I can tell what this guy has done? After I finish the front I have to pull the axles and drums to replace both because he drilled and re studded them too. There was only 1/4" of the stud in the wheel nut holding the wheels on and on the rear he machined the rim to fit over the axle flange ruining the rim. Only thing holding the rear wheel on was the studs and only 1/4" into the nuts. These should be 1/2" studs. Anyway any help would be greatly appreciated.

Also can anybody identify this wheel?

[franken]

70 had drum in front and rear so if you have rotors, its been converted.

[71swb4x4]

The centercap of the wheel has a logo on it, what does it say?

[70']

Some 1970 trucks came with disk brakes up front and drums in the rear, so it's not necessarily a conversion job. Just went from a six lug to a five lug configuration. I think your being just a little tough on your friend....should he have told you? Yeah, probably. However, it's your responsibility to do your due diligence as the buyer. Especially on a truck that is 45 years old. If there were a 1/4" of threads engaged on the lugs, I can assure you the wheels were not in danger of falling off. If it's eating at you that much the fix is real easy, buy new axles shafts at the junkyard, and put them in. And the studs/lugs are always the only thing holding any wheel on, so that statement really makes no sense. Too many people buys these old trucks because they are envouge at the moment and their expectations are way too high. If your going to own a truck this old, get used to the idea of working on it. Why do you think so many guys on here do frame off restorations with a lot of modern upgrades incorporated into the builds? Reliability.....

[Already Gone]

Originally Posted by 70'

Some 1970 trucks came with disk brakes up front and drums in the rear, so it's not necessarily a conversion job. Just went from a six lug to a five lug configuration. I think your being just a little tough on your friend....should he have told you? Yeah, probably. However, it's your responsibility to do your due diligence as the buyer. Especially on a truck that is 45 years old. If there were a 1/4" of threads engaged on the lugs, I can assure you the wheels were not in danger of falling off. If it's eating at you that much the fix is real easy, buy new axles shafts at the junkyard, and put them in. And the studs/lugs are always the only thing holding any wheel on, so that statement really makes no sense. Too many people buys these old trucks because they are envouge at the moment and their expectations are way too high. If your going to own a truck this old, get used to the idea of working on it. Why do you think so many guys on here do frame off restorations with a lot of modern upgrades incorporated into the builds? Reliability.....

Disc brakes were not available until the 71 model year. Now,with that being said if at the end of the 1970 model run there were no 6 lug brake drum left they may have stuck the 5 lug 71 discs on the front but then would have to put 5 lug axles out back as well. but I think this scenario of putting discs on the late build 70's ever happened.

[71swb4x4]

Originally Posted by 70'

Some 1970 trucks came with disk brakes up front and drums in the rear, so it's not necessarily a conversion job. Just went from a six lug to a five lug configuration.

Without proof, I don't believe that 1970 trucks came with disc brakes. Why would they bring on a 6 lug disc brake rotor (which wasn't a GM part at that time) just to put them on the last few trucks?

[70']

The proof is in my garage. 1970 chevy 4x4 shortbed with disk brakes up front and drums on the rear. 6 lug all around. Original axels, clearly factory parts. Happy to post pictures when I get home tomorrow. Disk brakes on the front were an option on chevrolet vehicles beginning in 1967. They are out there. 99.99% of buyers then didn't custom order vehicles, unlike today. I actually read an interesting article about it in super chevy. I believe that disk brakes came standard on vettes as early as 1965.

[moon]

Yes we are responsible for our own decisions when buying these cool old trucks. But most of us don't expect to be screwed over by a friend the first time it happens.
Live and learn I guess...

Here is a shot I just took of my passenger side front wheel.
Excuse the dirt & rust, it's been sitting for a while.

Hope it helps. Good luck

[davepl]

Originally Posted by 70'

The proof is in my garage. 1970 chevy 4x4 shortbed with disk brakes up front and drums on the rear. 6 lug all around. Original axels, clearly factory parts. Happy to post pictures when I get home tomorrow. Disk brakes on the front were an option on chevrolet vehicles beginning in 1967. They are out there. 99.99% of buyers then didn't custom order vehicles, unlike today. I actually read an interesting article about it in super chevy. I believe that disk brakes came standard on vettes as early as 1965.

No SPID pic, no believe. It's out in your garage, go take a pic with your phone. 20 seconds. Prove us all wrong. I'd actually like to be wrong, because then I'd know more tomorrow than I do today. Today I think disc brakes didn't come on 1970 or earlier trucks.

I'd also love to know what issue of Super Chevy covers these, I have a stack of them and would like to read it.

As for the OP wondering about his brake hoses, put it on jack stands and have someone cycle the steering. Then you'll have a rough idea if they're long enough at full suspension drop. Full compression would be harder to tell, but it might be obvious from looking.

[71swb4x4]

Originally Posted by 70'

The proof is in my garage. 1970 chevy 4x4 shortbed with disk brakes up front and drums on the rear. 6 lug all around. Original axels, clearly factory parts. Happy to post pictures when I get home tomorrow. Disk brakes on the front were an option on chevrolet vehicles beginning in 1967. They are out there. 99.99% of buyers then didn't custom order vehicles, unlike today. I actually read an interesting article about it in super chevy. I believe that disk brakes came standard on vettes as early as 1965.

4x4 rotors are not the same as 2wd rotors. GM didn't have 6 lug 2wd rotors in 1970. We have two different arguments here.
1) So me proof of a 1970 2wd 6 lug with 1970 GM factory disc brakes, I HIGHLY doubt there is such a thing.
2) I am not running such a hard line on the 4x4 aspect. GM had front axles ready for the 1971 roll out, is it possible some extremely late 1970's got disc brakes? I am skeptical, but not going to say it's impossible. Let's see the proof.

[too much stuff]

Originally Posted by 70'

The proof is in my garage. 1970 chevy 4x4 shortbed with disk brakes up front and drums on the rear. 6 lug all around. Original axels, clearly factory parts. Happy to post pictures when I get home tomorrow. Disk brakes on the front were an option on chevrolet vehicles beginning in 1967. They are out there. 99.99% of buyers then didn't custom order vehicles, unlike today. I actually read an interesting article about it in super chevy. I believe that disk brakes came standard on vettes as early as 1965.

Actually, 1970 was a one year only front end in a 4x4. Drum brakes and open axle joints. The disc brakes were an option on some cars and elcaminos, but didn't come on the pickups until the 71 models.
In 45 years it would have been easy to bolt in a 71 and up front axle and no one would know any different.

[GMJimmy]

Originally Posted by 70'

Some 1970 trucks came with disk brakes up front and drums in the rear, so it's not necessarily a conversion job. Just went from a six lug to a five lug configuration. I think your being just a little tough on your friend....should he have told you? Yeah, probably. However, it's your responsibility to do your due diligence as the buyer. Especially on a truck that is 45 years old. If there were a 1/4" of threads engaged on the lugs, I can assure you the wheels were not in danger of falling off. If it's eating at you that much the fix is real easy, buy new axles shafts at the junkyard, and put them in. And the studs/lugs are always the only thing holding any wheel on, so that statement really makes no sense. Too many people buys these old trucks because they are envouge at the moment and their expectations are way too high. If your going to own a truck this old, get used to the idea of working on it. Why do you think so many guys on here do frame off restorations with a lot of modern upgrades incorporated into the builds? Reliability.....

Yes, no argument. I should have checked it out before I bought it but I had moved from California to Canada and was living here when he called me from Cali and told me all the good things about this truck. This guy was someone I thought I could trust. "This truck is a California rust free gem" I should have asked him if it was bondo free as well. The work he did to this truck was dangerous but I did check it out before I drove it anywhere.

By the way the hubs on the axle are supposed to carry the weight of the vehicle and the studs just hold the wheel tight to the hub. This rim had been machined eliminating the support from hub and the only thing carrying the weight of the vehicle was the studs (similar to cheap aftermarket rice runner wheels) and only a 1/4 inch of each 3/8" stud Yes 3/8" studs. This isn't my first rodeo with classic vehicles. I've restored several Corvettes and Camaro's but this is my first truck and I'll confess I'm in unfamiliar territory but this forum will change that.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by GMJimmy

Also can anybody identify this wheel?

My best guess, WAG, Jeep.

[RodnRudy]

Those are Rocket wheels. Check their Website

[GMJimmy]

Originally Posted by RodnRudy

Those are Rocket wheels. Check their Website

Rocket! I'll check it out thanks. I didn't think the caps were original but maybe they are?

[swamp rat]

I have read here a number of times someone drilling the axles to make it 5 lug..

Heres a google search for "67-72 6 lug to 5 lug drill axles"

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...95.uihHmP38KKc

[hugger6933]

There have been post on here before about the 70 model disc brakes. I believe it could have happened but the 4x4 is a different critter altogether. All of the GM 4X4's were 6 lug and never did go to the 5 lug pattern.But all the post I have ever seen about the validity of a 70 model disc brakes is still a big question in most minds. I have never heard of a 70 4X4 with disc[that hasn't been converted] brakes and the only way to prove it for sure is to have bought the truck from new. Also IF disc were available as early as the 67 model year would as many followers as is on this site with all of its paper work and knowledge combined, wouldn't such a truck been presented for the rest of us to view? I know that disc were out as early as __ __ model year but that for car production and doesn't include the trucks we hold so dear. Jim

[70']

Here you go Dave, pics from my frame off tear down a few months ago.

[jocko]

Originally Posted by 70'

Here you go Dave, pics from my frame off tear down a few months ago.

Interesting discussion. Unless you are the original owner, you might want to consider that a PO likely swapped a 71 or later K10 axle (and its disks) onto your truck. It happened and happens all the time. Yes, disks were available on some cars prior to 71, many, in fact. But not available on these trucks until 71. They were not an option - and, if they were, they would be listed on the SPID. Would like to see a picture of the SPID, otherwise, as you stated yourself, one never really knows what you're getting when you buy a truck this old. So, why assume that a very common axle swap that's done all the time to 70 and earlier Ks (and Cs) wasn't done on your truck in the 70's for the very reason we're discussing here - to get disk brakes? If that were done to your truck back then, it would look exactly like your picture looks - crusty and original. This is a very interesting thread that hasn't much to do with the op's original question (sorry about that), but this is an interested tangent, and one worth ironing out.

[SS Tim]

The front axle BOM and date code will tell you if the housing is an original 70 Blazer/K10 but it still could have had the outers (with brakes) swapped at any time in its history.

[Daman]

I have no proof but with my first '70 that came right off the farm that my granddad bought new. I had a heck of a time at the parts counter back in the day (late '80s) when I went and replaced the pads. The parts guy kept arguing with me that I didn't have discs. I then went over to the dealer where he bought it and that guy tried selling me shoes.

There were a couple other odd ball things on that pickup from the factory/dealer that they said didn't come but for the life of me I can't remember. Great memories with that pickup, I'll be thinking about it all day now

[hugger6933]

Could this 70 with disc brakes be as easy as a mislabeled title or the it having the wrong year on the paper work. How many times have we here had a guy that swore his truck was a 67 say but had markers like the 68 and when all shaken out it turned out he had a 68 all along. What does the grille on this disc brake 70 model look like? I 'm am starting to think it is one of those cases where the built date is close to a model year change or the DMV office titled the 71 truck as a 70 by mistake. That makes the most sense to me. Jim

[70']

Well guys, as I have indicated anything is possible, on both sides of the argument. Everyone who has posted an opinion here could be correct. I don't know the details around it, all I know is that I have a 1970 with what appears to be factory disk brakes in the front. The SPID is no longer in tact, I did find the build sheet under the seat but little is still in tact. I will attach at the end of the post. However, there is now another original owner who posted above that they had a 70 with disks on the front of their truck. And as a lot of folks on here have experienced there can be oddball builds out there from the factory. For the folks who always want to cry SPID, hell there is a member right here on this sight that can produce a SPID that is perfect in every gay and I could have him make one right now that could show a jet engine from the factory if I wanted so the SPID thing isn't really the beat all end all. I once bought a 4 wheel drive chevy S10 brand new that was vin'd as a 2 wheel drive right from the factory. That was a mess fixing that, but point is, these things can happen. Is mine situation factory 100% for sure? Don't know won't argue it with you, but the fact is I have a 70 4x4 with what appears to be factory disk brakes up front.

[70']

Originally Posted by hugger6933

Could this 70 with disc brakes be as easy as a mislabeled title or the it having the wrong year on the paper work. How many times have we here had a guy that swore his truck was a 67 say but had markers like the 68 and when all shaken out it turned out he had a 68 all along. What does the grille on this disc brake 70 model look like? I 'm am starting to think it is one of those cases where the built date is close to a model year change or the DMV office titled the 71 truck as a 70 by mistake. That makes the most sense to me. Jim

Here is a shot of the grill

[hugger6933]

Well that is enough for me. Congrats I guess? Having an oddball could be fun but also a pain in the rump when parts time comes. If the 71 stuff fit on it that would end the hard to find parts problems but if not it could be real trouble with stuff like seals and brake hardware and whatnot. Jim