partial frame VIN/Cab VIN don't match question

[naphtali5725]

CFF395273 stamped twice in two different places on top of passenger side frame rail

my frame VIN and Cab VIN don't match...
to top it off... VIN tag has been removed/reattached in the past...

have to go thru redtape BS with DMV inspector

curious to what the frame went to, cab is an 86

thanks guys

[Keith Seymore]

C = Chevrolet
F = 1985 model year
F = Flint Assembly plant
395273 = sequential portion of VIN

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

C = Chevrolet
F = 1985 model year
F = Flint Assembly plant
395273 = sequential portion of VIN

I'm curious about the sequential number. Correct me if I'm wrong... That number indicates this frame was to be used or was used on the 395,273rd light truck to roll off the Flint Assembly line in 1985?

If that means what I think it does then I was wrong in my assumption above... There could only be one VIN from the Flint assembly plant with that 6 digit sequential number????

If so I stumbled on it fairly quickly by just looking at the truck and guessing at the three missing digits.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by hatzie

I'm curious about the sequential number. Correct me if I'm wrong... That number indicates this frame was to be used or was used on the 395,273rd light truck to roll off the Flint Assembly line in 1985?

If that means what I think it does then I was wrong in my assumption above... There could only be one VIN from the Flint assembly plant with that 6 digit sequential number????

If so I stumbled on it fairly quickly by just looking at the truck and guessing at the three missing digits.

You are correct that there is only one unique VIN per vehicle, by law. There would be common sequence numbers coming out of the various assembly plants but the VIN prefix would make the number associated with each truck unique.

Example: I have in my records a Fremont built '65 GTO: 237375Z123456, and also a Pontiac built '65 GTO 237375P123456. Same sequential portion, different plant code.

You are not correct about this truck being the 395,273rd vehicle built. In the first place, it is likely that Flint built Chevrolet nameplated vehicles started at 300001. Secondly, Flint also built GMCs, approximately one out of every nine trucks, which incremented up with their own sequence.

So my guess would be 395,273 - 300001 = 95,272 + 10,585 GMCs = 105,857th or so vehicle produced for the 1985 model year.

K

[naphtali5725]

thnks for the info so far, appreciated...
i guess i'll be updating this thread next week... hopefully all will go well, at least i can share the experience, and post the right process to others here in NC

thanks Keith for all the cool info

i have the front clip/cab/bed all unbolted, gonna unbolt front crossmember, and the 4 leaf spring bolts and get down to only the frame rails...

oh yeah, after i pull the damn engine/tranny

stay tuned, wish me luck LOL

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by Keith Seymore

You are correct that there is only one unique VIN per vehicle, by law. There would be common sequence numbers coming out of the various assembly plants but the VIN prefeix would make the number associated with each truck unique.

Example: I have in my records a Fremont built '65 GTO: 237375Z123456, and also a Pontiac built '65 GTO 237375P123456. Same sequential portion, different plant code.

You are not correct about this truck being the 395,273rd vehicle built. In the first place, it is likely that Flint built Chevrolet nameplated vehicles started at 300001. Secondly, Flint also built GMCs, approximately one out of every nine trucks, which incremented up with their own sequence.

So my guess would be 395,273 - 300001 = 95,272 + 10,585 GMCs = 105,857th or so vehicle produced for the 1985 model year.

K

So there's only one valid VIN ending in FF395273...

1GCCC14N3FF395273 is the only VIN out of 8 I tried with that suffix that showed as valid. It was the first VIN I guessed too... Dang I'm good...

That's probably the whole VIN of the truck that was associated with that frame.

[naphtali5725]

one other question, the dash panel that the VIN tag is on, that is welded to the windshield area and bolts to each side of the cab. i removed the spot welds, and took out that whole piece, for repair near windshield, and to install my custom aluminum dash... is that considered tampering? LOL or just physically taking the tag rivets out is what constitutes tampering?

[1963c-10]

Did you purchase the truck in NC? Out of state transactions to NC can be a pain in the rear. Had to do one on my 63 when I purchase it in SC last year. In state....much easier.

I do know when they came out to inspect the truck VINS.....my frame and cab ID had to match.

[naphtali5725]

yeah, i have talked to a DMV inspector, and he's coming to look at it next week... since the VIN's don't match and the VIN tag has been removed/reattached... i hope i'm not in a serious situation... like confiscation.

i do have a clear NC title since i bought/titled it here in NC. i do have the glove box sticker, and the VIN on it matches with the cowl tag

[Gregski]

Originally Posted by naphtali5725

i do have a clear NC title since i bought/titled it here in NC. i do have the glove box sticker, and the VIN on it matches with the cowl tag

Then what are you doing? except for imposing self inflicted pain on yourself and as you can already see wasting time, not trying to be a jerk but you had a clean title, 40 year old cars are commonly pieced together with replacement parts

[naphtali5725]

Originally Posted by Gregski

Then what are you doing? except for imposing self inflicted pain on yourself and as you can already see wasting time, not trying to be a jerk but you had a clean title, 40 year old cars are commonly pieced together with replacement parts

yep, but not with the vin tag altered, that's the thing... it being pieced together isn't the problem, so telling me i'm wasting my time etc. is not answering any questions, nor is it providing any useful info

i'll post an update when the inspector is done

[Hubscrub]

I'm on your side best now than later, if you do what's right you have no worries. Know your legal before your like thousands into the build and something comes up and lose out.

[naphtali5725]

if i have the truck in pieces... front clip, cab, bed.. and the frame sitting by itself... rails only, no front crossmember... if something was amiss, would they just take the cab, and or frame rails? or load all of it up (fenders, doors, bed, rear end, suspension etc. etc.)? even though none of it was put together(parts sitting in a garage so to speak)?

[1963c-10]

I don't know personally. But when they came to inspect my latest 63 that was added to the fleet I removed what I could just in case. I don't really know what their protocol is in situations like this.

I see your ex 82nd, are you still in Fayetteville area?

[naphtali5725]

Originally Posted by 1963c-10

I don't know personally. But when they came to inspect my latest 63 that was added to the fleet I removed what I could just in case. I don't really know what their protocol is in situations like this.

I see your ex 82nd, are you still in Fayetteville area?

naa man, i left Fayettenam in 1998, when I ETS'd... loved Bragg, nothing like jumping outta airplanes LOL

i'm gonna take mine down to the bare frame, and cab separate... if all is well, won't take much at all to throw it back together

[hatzie]

I don't see how they could justify taking the whole shebang.
This is the gubmint we're talking about tho... Many times they just do things with no justification as long as they figure they will get away with it.

You can pretty well guess what the first third of the VIN might be if you have a VIN decoding card for 1985...
http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/tech.../1985truck.pdf

There are only 3 digits we don't know. 5, 8, & 9.
--There are only 3 reasonable Valid 1/2ton Brake types for VIN Position 5 {C, D, & E}
--There are 9 possible stock engine letters for VIN position 8. C,J 6.2L - N 4.3L - F,N 5.0L - K 5.7LPG - L,M 5.7L - W 7.4L
--I'm not sure how the check digit VIN Position 9 was generated so that'll add 0-9 for 10 more possible VIN#s to the guess pool.

1GCCx14xxFF395273

It could be a handful of numbers using this as the base known numbers... Some will be invalid.

1GCCC14N3FF395273 is a valid VIN#
1GCCD14N3FF395273 & 1GCCE14N3FF395273 are invalid...

Get Carfax or some other VIN check subscription and run the handful you WAG.

[naphtali5725]

Originally Posted by hatzie

Get Carfax or some other VIN check subscription and run the handful you WAG.

what is a WAG?

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by naphtali5725

what is a WAG?

Wild azz guess.

K

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by naphtali5725

what is a WAG?

A Wild Guess... This is closer to an edumacated guess.

[68Timber]

I wouldn't have that motor attached to questionable parts (ie frame) when the inspector shows up. I know its extra work but I'd play it safe.

[naphtali5725]

Originally Posted by BRUISER

I wouldn't have that motor attached to questionable parts (ie frame) when the inspector shows up. I know its extra work but I'd play it safe.

yeah, i'm pulling it all apart... nothing but frame rails laying there and the cab on the ground... what a load of crap...
it is what it is LOL

[UKNOWME]

How can they take anything? If you have a title to the cab. What if you bought a frame because the original was damaged?

[Axle]

Originally Posted by UKNOWME

How can they take anything? If you have a title to the cab. What if you bought a frame because the original was damaged?

Since the VIN tag has been tampered with, that is a red flag to them, as by the letter of the law it is illegal to do anything with the vin tag. They assume stolen first--everything that is on the vehicle.

I'd probably be suspicious they would suspect an engine in visual sight would also be on their radar if an engine is not bolted in the vehicle they are looking at. Unless you can produce receipts for the individual components you are SOL. Up here, if you are planning on a build that needs an inspection to that level you need to make sure that any parts you buy from a salvage yard have a receipt clearly indicating what you bought, and if at all possible the vin number of the vehicle it came from also on that receipt. ie: frame, engine, cab that have vin numbers associated with them. to prove legal ownership. You can't just say the engine came from your friend billy bob.

Originally Posted by naphtali5725

one other question, the dash panel that the VIN tag is on, that is welded to the windshield area and bolts to each side of the cab. i removed the spot welds, and took out that whole piece, for repair near windshield, and to install my custom aluminum dash... is that considered tampering? LOL or just physically taking the tag rivets out is what constitutes tampering?

I don't know about NC, but if you want to do a fiberglass body conversion on your truck here, you are supposed to remove the entire dash panel (vin intact, no removing it) as you did, and install/attach it to the fiberglass body. That new body is now "your" truck as it appears on the title.

Your sticking issue is that your vin plate is no longer attached with factory rivets. Where did your vin plate come from? where did the dash panel come from? where did the cab come from? where did the frame come from? Like mentioned above, without receipts for these items you would be SOL up here.
If you are rebuilding a car with a salvage title all the parts you get to rebuild, even the non-vin'd ones they prefer a salvage yard receipt with the vin of the donor vehicle listed on it.
When it gets to the level iii inspection here they want everything documented (they even want full photos of the vehicle BEFORE you begin repairs, and then after repairs. Worst of all, they want to do a inspection before you apply any paint to your repaired area, any paint/coating is technically a fail).

Hopefully age of the vehicle, and what they want from you is straight forward.

Beurocracy at its finest. Had you got the truck from NC, it could be a mish mash of everything and anything and you would be free and clear to carry on as you wished.

Alex.

[naphtali5725]

i did get the truck in NC, whomever cobbled it together before i bought it, are the ones who tampered with the VIN tag, that's why i am having it inspected, to eliminate any hassle up front

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by naphtali5725

i did get the truck in NC, whomever cobbled it together before i bought it, are the ones who tampered with the VIN tag, that's why i am having it inspected, to eliminate any hassle up front

I'm afraid you might've kicked the hive.
If you didn't need to do this then why wake the bureaucracy. I would've replaced with a salvage cab if I found a tampered VIN plate and cut up the tampered cab for scrap and patch panels to make it go away.