Square body mysteries

[Hiluxxulih]

Let's talk square body mysteries , for instace why did gm place the Vin sticker on the door frame instead of the door jam ?

[73kay]

I've wondering the same thing. Was that just what they did back then or just a Gm thing?

[andrewmp6]

With cars the vin had to be on the dash in 68 if i remember right,On trucks i have no idea when they had to but im sure no one changed tell they had to.

[motornut]

Sticker on the door I guess less chance getting damaged?
But then ,I've seen new vans etc the stickers on the jam, now.
I figured it was to make the info easy to find like the rpo sticker.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Hiluxxulih

Let's talk square body mysteries , for instace why did gm place the Vin sticker on the door frame instead of the door jam ?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

If you are talking about the adhesive sticker on the door itself: it is of no consequence. No more than say a camper label (attached to the glove box) or a tuneup label (rad support) or a tire pressure label (door jamb) or even the SPID label (glove box). It could go anywhere but was placed there due to history and workload balance on the assembly line.

If, however, you are talking about the VIN tag itself: it should be riveted (with rosette rivets) to the door opening ring near the striker, or to the dash panel depending on model year. That is a federal requirement for US built vehicles and is not negotiable.

On the other hand, I have seen modern import vehicles (Honda, Toyota, Kia, etc) in our teardown displays at work that have VIN stickers (as opposed to metal tags), and/or are attached with push pins or plastic rivets. Unbelievable. We make such a fuss about it and yet I can swap VINs on those cutaway display vehicles with my bare hands.


K

[TKCR]

As for the imports VIN stickers that are placed in the door jamb and other various places on the vehicle. These are actually very hard to remove once they are placed. And they also bleed into the paint.
The "riveted" vin plate is under the windshield. It is riveted to the body of the car.

[Hiluxxulih]

I meant that sticker on the door frame , I have seen quite a few that were missing or did not match the cab vin because the door was swapped .

[natedogg]

Here is a Squarebody mystery that I have no explanation for. Maybe, Mr. Kieth Seymore can help. Over the years, I have seen several 81-87 Scottsdale trim trucks with the cab molding and several Silverado's that didn't have the cab molding. I even saw a 84 Custom Deluxe in the junk yard that had the molding and fender trim. Why did GM put the molding on the lower level trucks and not some Silverado's? On a side note, a friend and I did get the bed off the 84 in the pic. I went back about 2 weeks later to get the cab molding and fender trim, but the truck was sitting crushed on top of a pile of cars! What a shame, because the truck only had surface rust.

[Pine Bark Auto]

If the cab molding you are referring to is the one located just below the back glass, it's use may have been dependent on paint option. I only recall seeing it on models with roof color different from main body color. I think standard 2 tone paint had the roof the same as the main body color and deluxe 2 tone had the roof matching the 2nd color. I have seen some older model basic trucks with lighter color roofs only and they had that molding to cover the paint break. Chip.

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by Pine Bark Auto

If the cab molding you are referring to is the one located just below the back glass, it's use may have been dependent on paint option. I only recall seeing it on models with roof color different from main body color. I think standard 2 tone paint had the roof the same as the main body color and deluxe 2 tone had the roof matching the 2nd color. I have seen some older model basic trucks with lighter color roofs only and they had that molding to cover the paint break. Chip.

I had a 1973 plain jane "Custom" K20 on which I ordered the white top cab option. Other than the separation trim under the back window and around the corner to the door, it was solid green with no trim everywhere else.

Even had a white painted bumper, but for a while I worked at a Chevy dealer (same one where I bought it, a couple years later) and they had warranteed a chrome bumper for an itty bitty scratch. One of the managers let me snag it out of the scrap pile and I put it on my pickup

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Pine Bark Auto

If the cab molding you are referring to is the one located just below the back glass, it's use may have been dependent on paint option. I only recall seeing it on models with roof color different from main body color. I think standard 2 tone paint had the roof the same as the main body color and deluxe 2 tone had the roof matching the 2nd color. I have seen some older model basic trucks with lighter color roofs only and they had that molding to cover the paint break. Chip.

This is correct. The cab molding was available with the ZY2 and ZY4 paint schemes (the ones with the painted roof), and was independent of the trim level (Custom Deluxe, Scottsdale or Silverado).

Originally Posted by natedogg

I even saw a 84 Custom Deluxe in the junk yard that had the molding and fender trim. Why did GM put the molding on the lower level trucks and not some Silverado's?

Someone probably took a Custom Deluxe order and added RPO B84 (black side trim) and B96 (wheel opening moldings).

Remember: back then your could mix and match as you saw fit. My own truck, a Scottsdale, should have had the single headlight grill and black side trim. However, I knew that I could add RPO V22 Uplevel grille and B85 chrome side trim and get a Silverado appearance package for less cost.

K

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Hiluxxulih

I meant that sticker on the door frame , I have seen quite a few that were missing or did not match the cab vin because the door was swapped .

Right. I should have explained this differently:

The VIN tag locks down the vehicle identity. That's why it is permanently affixed to a structural part of the vehicle (door opening ring or IP dash panel).

All of those other stickers are informational only. The only reason the VIN is on them is to make sure they get placed on the correct vehicle (they do not give the vehicle it's identity). That's why they can be stickers, and on components that can be swapped out (doors, rad supports, glove boxes, etc).

K

[KQQL IT]

I want to see a 73 without drip rail and a white top.
I'd like to paint the roof white on my 73 and not sure where to break the color, or did they ever just paint the roof top and not the B pillar portion?

[1976gmc20]

Originally Posted by KQQL IT

I want to see a 73 without drip rail and a white top.
I'd like to paint the roof white on my 73 and not sure where to break the color, or did they ever just paint the roof top and not the B pillar portion?

Yeah, it was the top and the B pillar, above and behind the drip rail and down to a wide, somewhat tacky trim under the back window and around the pillar. At least that's how I remember it. Door was all green I think ...

That trim got pretty scratched up from the top front corner of the bed hitting the cab when the frame twisted on jeep roads. Left a quarter moon scar in the trim.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by KQQL IT

I want to see a 73 without drip rail and a white top.
I'd like to paint the roof white on my 73 and not sure where to break the color, or did they ever just paint the roof top and not the B pillar portion?

B pillar gets the secondary color; drip rails don't make any difference because the top is painted before they go on anyway, and the paint break is down into the door opening.

K

[special-K]

I never paid that much attention, but figured the under window cab trim came on upper trim trucks and only on base models with two-tone top. I never inspected the SPID, but have had three original solid color square bodies, '78 Silverado, '78 Scottsdale, and '84 Silverado, and they all had the trim. The last two were Camper Specials with the teepee, so maybe it comes with that option? The '78 Scottsdale had no side trim at all. It was a dually

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by special-K

The last two were Camper Specials with the teepee, so maybe it comes with that option?

Yes.

K

[natedogg]

Thanks, Keith. Here is the spid from my 85. Also, can you tell me what YH6 and ZQ2 mean?

[Keith Seymore]

ZQ2 = power locks + power windows

YH6 is a sort of flexible "bonus package" RPO that could used for individual dealer packages, spring/summer sales or promotional colors, etc.

It doesn't always have permanent content attached to it so it would be difficult to define at this point.

K

[russgt]

Why was the standard axle ratio for a "Trailering special" 3.08?

[kalbert]

I think what Keith is saying is that the cab band is the option, it wasn't necessarily included with any particular group. In the "good ol days" it was possible to get just about any available equipment on any trim level. Silverado, Scottsdale, and custom deluxe only guarantee a particular fender badge. You could order a custom deluxe with four headlights power windows and carpet and a Silverado with vinyl floor mat, a 6cyl, and no power steering. Exaggeration obviously but you get the point. Now you can't do that. If you want a base model truck with carpet you have to get the interior comfort group that includes power windows, satellite radio, and power seats. The interior comfort group isn't available on base model trucks though you get bumped to the to the LT trim and have to get fender flares, 18" wheels, and tinted windows.

[special-K]

Originally Posted by kalbert

I think what Keith is saying is that the cab band is the option, it wasn't necessarily included with any particular group. In the "good ol days" it was possible to get just about any available equipment on any trim level. Silverado, Scottsdale, and custom deluxe only guarantee a particular ............

I get what you are saying. I've sat down at a dealership and spec'd out a truck or two myself. It wasn't exactly like that. You couldn't "order down" on a trim level. In other words, while you could order the front end appearance pkg (dual headlights/fancy grille) on a base level truck, you couldn't get the single headlights/plain grille on a Silverado. Or, you could add carpet to a Custom Deluxe, but you couldn't get rubber floor covering in a Siverado. Many features you see in "most" Silverados are individual options not included in the trim level option

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by special-K

I get what you are saying. I've sat down at a dealership and spec'd out a truck or two myself. It wasn't exactly like that. You couldn't "order down" on a trim level. In other words, while you could order the front end appearance pkg (dual headlights/fancy grille) on a base level truck, you couldn't get the single headlights/plain grille on a Silverado. Or, you could add carpet to a Custom Deluxe, but you couldn't get rubber floor covering in a Siverado. Many features you see in "most" Silverados are individual options not included in the trim level option

Correct. You can "opt up" but you can't "opt down".

K

[1976gmc20]

GMC used to be a bit different. They offered the V-6 which was a medium duty truck engine. Also, my memory is that the 1960s GMCs had rear leaf springs while the Chevy had coil springs and trailing arms.

When I worked for a Chevy dealer 1974/1975 we had a pickup come in on the transport that had a Chevrolet emblem on one front fender and a GMC emblem on the other front fender

They probably would have sold it that way if this "dumb kid" ferrying vehicles around hadn't pointed it out to the new car setup department

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by 1976gmc20

When I worked for a Chevy dealer 1974/1975 we had a pickup come in on the transport that had a Chevrolet emblem on one front fender and a GMC emblem on the other front fender

Just one?!?

(lol)

I had a guy ask me one time, in a sort of surprised fashion: "you mean you built Chevys and GMCs down the same line?"

I said "yep. Sometimes on the same truck!"

It's really easy to mess up, if you understand the build process. The fenders (and hood) are all trimmed out on a remote line and are fed to the main line in sequence via conveyor. The guys back on the front end sheet metal line are looking at the manifest (all of the build sheets in one packet) and building the content specified (wheel opening molding vs none, chrome side trim vs black side trim vs none and, of course, brand) based on what the paperwork tells them. If they happen to miss a GMC then they'll put a Chevy emblem on out of force of habit. Or, they can misread the manifest and get out of sequence or off by one truck in the build.

Nobody sees the whole truck at the same time until later, when it all comes together on the final line, where most mistakes become very obvious. Somebody should have caught it immediately at that point; for it to get through three or four levels of inspection and get to the dealership is inexcusable.



K