1 finger steering

[Ta2edjr]

My 72 c10 is my daily driver...no I don't have other vehicles that I (could) drive I mean this is my daily. Other than my electraglide it's the only other vehicle that I own. Im Having some thoughts on steering..it's loose and very touchy. Truck has factory power steering and original steering wheel. I need some options as far to righting the steering some. I can literally steer this truck with 1 finger and it's somewhat hard keep straight going down the highway. Here's what I've contimplated. Getting a smaller aftermarket wheel and seeing that helps or going to a 73+ box? Does anybody and all help would be apreciated! Also front end of the truck ball joints and tie rod ends are in good shape far from new but not wore out completely also going to be installing a sway bar from a 72 c20 soon so maybe that will help with the handling issue as well.

[cooperhw]

Originally Posted by Ta2edjr

My 72 c10 is my daily driver...no I don't have other vehicles that I (could) drive I mean this is my daily. Other than my electraglide it's the only other vehicle that I own. Im Having some thoughts on steering..it's loose and very touchy. Truck has factory power steering and original steering wheel. I need some options as far to righting the steering some. I can literally steer this truck with 1 finger and it's somewhat hard keep straight going down the highway. Here's what I've contimplated. Getting a smaller aftermarket wheel and seeing that helps or going to a 73+ box? Does anybody and all help would be apreciated! Also front end of the truck ball joints and tie rod ends are in good shape far from new but not wore out completely also going to be installing a sway bar from a 72 c20 soon so maybe that will help with the handling issue as well.

I think the key part of your description is "far from new". The components might "Look" like they are in good shape visually where they really are worn. Same with the steering box. I would hazard to guess if you changed all the wear items, added a sway bar, new shocks, it would drive like a new truck.
JMO

[leftybass209]

I just tried to remedy this with my steering. A lot of people swear it's the shims that take care of this issue, Borgeson sells a kit with these shims. I used all the shims and my steering hardly stiffened up. Then I read that the hole on the flow valve should be reduced in diameter to reduce the pressure influenced on the pump, to then increase the effort you use to turn the wheel.

There's two options to accomplish this. The first is you remove the high pressure fitting in the back of the pump, weld the hole, and re drill a smaller diameter hole. The second is to buy an aftermarket valve with the reduced diameter.

The shims did work a little, but these saginaw pumps are such high pressure you'd need 2 kits of shims (or a lot of junkyard shims) to notice any real change ( I also don't know the repercussions of over-shimming).

One thing the shims did fix was the excessive pressure that caused a high squeal lock to lock I had from the pulley to belt contact. Now the belt can actually control the pulley, instead of the opposite. I hope this helps!

[leftybass209]

I should also state that I haven't tried the high pressure valve mod yet. As stated above, wandering is a symptom of worn components, what I suggested is a fix simply for the overpowered steering, which also makes steering very twitchy and unsafe at highway speeds.

[Ta2edjr]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

I just tried to remedy this with my steering. A lot of people swear it's the shims that take care of this issue, Borgeson sells a kit with these shims. I used all the shims and my steering hardly stiffened up. Then I read that the hole on the flow valve should be reduced in diameter to reduce the pressure influenced on the pump, to then increase the effort you use to turn the wheel.

There's two options to accomplish this. The first is you remove the high pressure fitting in the back of the pump, weld the hole, and re drill a smaller diameter hole. The second is to buy an aftermarket valve with the reduced diameter.

The shims did work a little, but these saginaw pumps are such high pressure you'd need 2 kits of shims (or a lot of junkyard shims) to notice any real change ( I also don't know the repercussions of over-shimming).

One thing the shims did fix was the excessive pressure that caused a high squeal lock to lock I had from the pulley to belt contact. Now the belt can actually control the pulley, instead of the opposite. I hope this helps!

Lefty you explained it better than I could. Lol it does act like the pump has to much pressure on the box and just makes it to easy.
I have tried researching it on here and came up with quicker ratio boxes from newer trucks. And while that is a option. In theory wouldn't a smaller steering wheel change the ratio? Just curious more or less might just thro a smaller wheel on and see what it does. And hopefully once the sway bar gets installed it will help as much as everyone says it does lol

[Andy4639]

The valve replacement would be a easy change. I did mine when I installed the 6.0 LS motor. It had all the stuff with it so I swapped the valve out off my old pump to the new one.

[9teen69]

Definitely need to replace rag joint and gear box. My 72 had the original suspension. I also use mine as my only daily driver so I wanted to use the best parts. I rebuilt my power steering pump and added original style hoses.

I went with a new variable ratio AGR box, cost me $360 2 years ago.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/agr-204317
Drastic change to the drive, I love it and is the best money in my opinion I've spent...even more than my vintage air. Doesn't feel like a boat anymore.
I've seen many board members have success with Redhead boxes.

The front sway bar will change the ride quite a bit. I also add a rear -another great upgrade for body roll.

Enjoy!

[Lou Boffa]

Originally Posted by 9teen69

Definitely need to replace rag joint and gear box. My 72 had the original suspension. I also use mine as my only daily driver so I wanted to use the best parts. I rebuilt my power steering pump and added original style hoses.

I went with a new variable ratio AGR box, cost me $360 2 years ago.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/agr-204317
Drastic change to the drive, I love it and is the best money in my opinion I've spent...even more than my vintage air. Doesn't feel like a boat anymore.
I've seen many board members have success with Redhead boxes.

The front sway bar will change the ride quite a bit. I also add a rear -another great upgrade for body roll.

Enjoy!

Variable ratio is the way to go imho. I just completed this upgrade w an AGR gear box (I too hear good things @ red head) and new rag joint. 2nd best $$ I've spent after Vintage Air.

[leftybass209]

Originally Posted by Ta2edjr

Lefty you explained it better than I could. Lol it does act like the pump has to much pressure on the box and just makes it to easy.
I have tried researching it on here and came up with quicker ratio boxes from newer trucks. And while that is a option. In theory wouldn't a smaller steering wheel change the ratio? Just curious more or less might just thro a smaller wheel on and see what it does. And hopefully once the sway bar gets installed it will help as much as everyone says it does lol

The smaller diameter wheel does nothing to change the effort when you're dealing with these high pressures. The PO had a cheesy 13 inch grant on mine, still 1 finger. I switched to a 15.5 grant.... still one finger. Switched to an 80's c1500 wheel, still 1 finger! I'm going to be switching out the valve input soon. The concept behind the shims inside the power steering pump is that it reduces the load on the spring. There's a chart showing something like 1 shim is 1200 psi, and 5 shims is roughly 800 psi.

My numbers may be off, but I'd assume a drastic "feel" difference in a 400+ psi difference ( I used 6 shims). My theory is that the shims take the edge off the twitchy steering but do little to actually change the feel of the effort.

The valve (which is even easier to change) is the supposed solution. Also, tire alignment can effect steering effort.

Just to be clear, every single component in my steering is brand new or rebuilt, from the column, variable ratio box, pitman and idler arms, tie rods, sway bar, all the way to the dust caps rotors, spindles, wheels and tires. Still, 1 finger steering.

I just say that to debunk any ideas that changing an idler arm or pitman arm would increase the steering effort. Fact is a 1200 psi saginaw pump puts out a lot of power.

[knomadd]

I'd suggest you first look at the rag joint (assuming you have one between the steering box and the steering column). If that's worn out, you can get a lot of play in that alone. However, I don't think that will fix your problem. I'm willing to bet your steering box is your biggest culprit. But, like Wayne said, your steering components may be contributing to it too, even if they aren't completely worn out.

The smaller steering wheel will only reduce the amount of turns of the wheel, and not by much. It won't fix the problem. Neither will a sway bar. It will reduce body roll and some suspension flex, but will not do anything for the steering.

[Ta2edjr]

I've replaced both front shocks already and I have access to a alignment machine and did the front end alignment myself. I understand what you mean by worn parts being a main cause and I do agreewith that but while adjusting the tie rods to align the front end there wasn't alot of play. As much as I think there should be at least from driving it. But with that aside even with the steering loose it's still very easy to turn the wheel. Would getting. Smaller wheel help with that? It's kind of hard to explain My situation. the truck steers well but when I say loose I mean it's like it has too much power steering. What I'm after is just a little more friction when I turn the wheel.

[knomadd]

Well that's a completely different situation than I understood it to be. Good luck. I've never had to worry about that, so I won't be of much help.

[FirstOwner69]

This won't help fix what I think you are describing, but these trucks, as well as cars back then, generally had over boosted power steering. Power steering was a relatively new thing, and everyone expected virtually zero steering effort. If I recall correctly there were even some ads bragging about 1 finger steering.

When I did the resto on my 69, I replaced every moving psuspension part as well as the steering gear (with a faster ratio version) and rag joint. However, the power steering pump is original. The steering effort is still very light and touchy as it was since new. Newer vehicles also have variable ratio power steering which may reduce "touchiness". My smaller (15") diameter steering wheel doesn't seem to have any noticeable effect.

Someone may have a remedy for this. Perhaps the high pressure valve mod as suggested in the posts above? I'd like to hear more about that!

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by FirstOwner69

This won't help fix what I think you are describing, but these trucks, as well as cars back then, generally had over boosted power steering. Power steering was a relatively new thing, and everyone expected virtually zero steering effort. If I recall correctly there were even some ads bragging about 1 finger steering.

Came here to say this.

My '63 Grand Prix and '63 Tempest are both way "over boosted" compared to what we are used to today.

I figured someone else with a '67-72 could chime in and verify that what the original poster is experiencing is "normal" for these trucks.

K

[Ta2edjr]

Andy do you have any info on the valve replacement?

[Andy4639]

Originally Posted by Ta2edjr

Andy do you have any info on the valve replacement?

All I can say for sure on mine was it came out of my 71 Chevy truck power steering reservoir and went right in the 2003 reservoir with no problems. I like the way my truck drives.
I can let go of the wheel and it tracks great with no problems vering.
Some info here.

http://www.gmtruckcentral.com/articl...rsteeringmods/


http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/...ower-steering/

[firedemon]

you said you have access to an alignment machine could you play with the alignment a little dosent toe out make it less touchy and toe in darty or the other way around . as long as you don't go as far as early tire wear shouldn't hurt to play a little and its not costing anything in parts

[eagleuh1]

Change the valve. My 68 with 5.3 , kept the 5.3 power steering pump valve has the easiest steering ever. Kinda like it.

[PanelDeland]

My experience is that the original PS was too soft for my taste, so when I rebuilt the front suspension and added PS, I went with the later box and pressure fitting. I like the way the 73 up steering feels better than the 73 back. It's still easy to steer but takes a hand instead of a finger.

[Custom/Ten]

I have an 86 ps setup on my 72 and I can steer it with one finger np. My 95 seems about twice as hard to steer. The 72 does not wander when going down the road though. The 95 started two wander really bad for a while and when I put it on the lift I had movement in the pitman and idler arm. Replaced the both and it fixed the problem. Before I fixed them it felt like driving on a windy day, having to make constant corrections. I also agree that the valve is what will stiffin it up! Having a bad pitman and idler just made it wander, left, right, left, right, constantly.

[Steeveedee]

If all you want to reduce is the "ease" of the steering, you just need to reduce the amplification from the power steering pump. Shimming came up. If that works, well and good. If you don't have "road wander", and it doesn't dive to one side or the other when you are braking, you don't need to replace any suspension or steering or brake parts, or adjust the worm-to-sector lash in the steering gear box. I think that you may be used to later model vehicles that have higher steering effort? The less power sent to the steering, the less energy the vehicle uses, meaning that the mileage will increase.

[mike16]

My 72 c 10 has power steering and it steer with a mere finger tip input. Its all origonal with only 77 k miles on it. new tires and shocks are all i have replaced. it steers streight and true. so...

I think the effort issue is actually normal. the wandering issue may be warn parts or loose wheel bearings. service what you got first them start replacing parts. the fix could be cheaper than you think.

good luck

[special-K]

You just need to get your front end right. There isn't and never was anything wrong with the power steering in these trucks. People drove them daily when they came out all the way up to today. People are just used to modern thing and want to adapt these trucks rather than adapt themselves to the truck. There is no reason one of these trucks, left the way they were built, can't be a daily driver. In fact, that's what drew me to them and why I have stayed with them. I actually love the earlier-60s, '50s, and back vehicles most. But, I always figured these trucks have a classic vibe, still all metal, simple to work on...all the advantages of the older vehicles...yet can be driven on down the road along with everyone else to go make a living.

Ben Franklin said something to the effect (not an exact quote): "A reasonable man adapts himself to his surroundings. An unreasonable man attempts to adapt his surroundings to himself". Still holds true

[leftybass209]

Originally Posted by special-K

You just need to get your front end right. There isn't and never was anything wrong with the power steering in these trucks. People drove them daily when they came out all the way up to today. People are just used to modern thing and want to adapt these trucks rather than adapt themselves to the truck. There is no reason one of these trucks, left the way they were built, can't be a daily driver. In fact, that's what drew me to them and why I have stayed with them. I actually love the earlier-60s, '50s, and back vehicles most. But, I always figured these trucks have a classic vibe, still all metal, simple to work on...all the advantages of the older vehicles...yet can be driven on down the road along with everyone else to go make a living.

Ben Franklin said something to the effect (not an exact quote): "A reasonable man adapts himself to his surroundings. An unreasonable man attempts to adapt his surroundings to himself". Still holds true

More often than not I appreciate your wisdom and agree with you Special-K, but just rolling over and being happy with over-assisted steering because it's the way it always was, is contrary to the very reason hot rodding was created. I think manipulating a vehicle to reflect your taste and preference is exactly what makes this hobby appealing to people. I love a beautiful restoration. These trucks were created at a time when freeways were new, and speeds didn't much break 60mph, hence the speed warning system on these trucks as well as others. Modern vehicles have made these classics nearly dangerous to drive with drum brakes and twitchy over assisted steering at speed. It's also become dangerous to drive slower and within the means of these trucks completely stock, because of modern driving practices. Your quote of Ben Franklin while vague, can be interpreted MANY different ways. One may say destroying the ground and air to create gasoline powered vehicles in order to manipulate larger distance driving is considered unreasonable. This post is light-hearted and in good spirits mind you, just a different take on your thoughts.

Keith, these trucks indeed were over-assisted from the factory! Heck, you worked there who am I to tell you! Yes, though other than worn components the power steering over-assisted feel is completely normal for these trucks.

[mike16]

Originally Posted by leftybass209

More often than not I appreciate your wisdom and agree with you Special-K, but just rolling over and being happy with over-assisted steering because it's the way it always was, is contrary to the very reason hot rodding was created. I think manipulating a vehicle to reflect your taste and preference is exactly what makes this hobby appealing to people. I love a beautiful restoration. These trucks were created at a time when freeways were new, and speeds didn't much break 60mph, hence the speed warning system on these trucks as well as others. Modern vehicles have made these classics nearly dangerous to drive with drum brakes and twitchy over assisted steering at speed. It's also become dangerous to drive slower and within the means of these trucks completely stock, because of modern driving practices. Your quote of Ben Franklin while vague, can be interpreted MANY different ways. One may say destroying the ground and air to create gasoline powered vehicles in order to manipulate larger distance driving is considered unreasonable. This post is light-hearted and in good spirits mind you, just a different take on your thoughts.

Keith, these trucks indeed were over-assisted from the factory! Heck, you worked there who am I to tell you! Yes, though other than worn components the power steering over-assisted feel is completely normal for these trucks.

total bull chit. How do modern vehicles make these trucks dangerous to drive. ditto drum brakes. and over assisted is over assisted and that is not normal. My parents bought several new GM vehicles in the 70's and they all steered like this. normal safe and not over assisted. If there is something wrong with the truck then dont blame the way it came off the line 40 years ago. How do you tie in envirionmental devistation with over assisted power steering? kinda creepy dude.And your explaination that the hot rod industry foundation is based on people doing what they want contradicts they very reason why one persone prefers over assisted steering and another does not. clearly you have not thought your statement though. Nor have you ever driven a ford product of the same era.

My 72 c10 drives exactly like our 76 malibue wagon did back when it was new. nothing wrong and quite normal then and now. fix whats wrong dont look for demonds to spar with.