Check your work area for fire hazards today

[mr48chev]

While reading though thread on Old Sarge's fire it came to thought that we might all need to take the time today to check our own work area for possible fire hazards and or flammable liquids stored there.

In the area where you weld, grind or cut in especially what do you have stored there that maybe should be stored somewhere else or what have you left there in the past few days that needs to be put back where you safely store it.

That jug of gas that is usually out in the lawnmower/yard tool shed but got brought in the other night to put some gas in the project to hear it run?

That behind the seat gas tank you pulled out of the latest project and set over by the wall because it was dark and you didn't feel like taking it out back where you store stuff in the dark. That tank that is still in the project you just brought in but haven't pulled out yet and you are planning on cutting out the rusted cab corners this afternoon.

Those blue shop towels you used to wipe up the gas off the bench after you flipped the carb over on the bench and spilled the gas that was left out on the bench and floor, are they still in the open trash can at the end of the bench that is close to the vise that you use to hold small objects while you weld and work on them?

That can of lacquer thinner that you got out of the cabinet to wipe off that panel before priming it the other night?

Those cardboard boxes and the paper that was stuffed around the parts that were in them when you unwrapped the new parts that came via UPS on Thursday but didn't carry out to the recycle bin yet.

When you go out in the shop or work area take a look around and make sure that there is nothing that might catch fire or cause a fire that should be stored somewhere else or even removed from a project rig before you start welding, grinding or cutting today.

[Jurassic-1]

You are right. I think we are all guilty of being lazy at times. It does not take much to have an accident. I think I will check my garages and look for hazards. I try to keep all flammable liquids out of my smaller garage because It has a gas water heater in it and these can be a real fire starter with fumes. I thank you for this great idea which could be an eye opener for all of us.

[Advanced Design]

Great idea...also keep your fire extinguisher(s) clearly marked, updated and available. One saved my shop a few years ago when I did something stupid. Knew better, just slipped up once. That is all it takes.

Perhaps someone can chime in with what kind of extinguisher is best for a shop.

[mr48chev]

I missed that one. I need to pick up another one today when I am out and about too.

A guy should never have to stop and think "where the hell did I leave the fire extinguisher" if there is a fire.

[Jurassic-1]

I started a big block on a cart about 1 year ago and luckily had about 8 foot of hose from a gas can to the fuel pump. I started it with no headers on it figuring I was not running it more than 30 seconds or so. It started and there was a leak in the old fuel pump and as soon as I saw it I reached for the wire and it shot a flame out and set the fuel pump on fire. It was in the middle of the shop and I simply pulled the fuel line out of the gas can and extinguished the small fire. This was a wakeup as what could have happened. I think my future startups will be outside.

[OrrieG]

Check your fire extinguishers too. Not those small ones, get a 2A10BC minimum, 2A40BC is better. 10B will extinguish 10sf or gasoline/oil fire, 40B 40 sf. Get the ones with metal heads so they can be recharged. I have two in the garage at each end so I won't have to run thru a fire if one ever starts. Oily rags are not a joke, I had a shop fire in AZ in the 70's when I was working on my motorcycle and took a break for dinner. Air temp outside was 112 degrees, we returned two hours later to a smoldering fire that flamed as soon as I opened the door and it got more oxygen. Lost the bike paint, plastic and wiring, chared the wall and ceiling joists and was trying to burn thru to the house attic when the FD got there. They said it was pretty common, garage gets up to 130+ and spontaneous combustion takes over.

[Richs'55]

Retired from Firefighting for 29 years. Seen many a car fire and usually by the time we would pull up, nothing short of an 1 1/2" pre-connected line would put it out.

But I still recommend a Halon extinguisher. Dry chemical are great and cheap, but on an engine fire, it can totally destroy wiring and corrode even the paint and engine components. Maybe make more of a mess than the fire does.

I have 3 10# dry chemical extinguisher, one mounted at each door of my shop. Handy to find at each exit and handy to grab for inside or outside the shop. The 1 Halon extinguisher I have is located next to my flammable materials cabinet. I would only use the Halon on engine compartment fires, as (1) the clean up and less damage to engine compartment areas is better than dry chemical and (2) it is really expensive to recharge.
Otherwise, a good dry chem is sufficient, but several is better.

Also, one more note. Can't recall which cars had magnesium engine block or components, but when magnesium is on fire, DO NOT PUT WATER ON IT. A real firework show.

[OrrieG]

Good point on the halon, I have one in the house in case I have a computer or server fire.

[MARTINSR]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

While reading though thread on Old Sarge's fire it came to thought that we might all need to take the time today to check our own work area for possible fire hazards and or flammable liquids stored there.

In the area where you weld, grind or cut in especially what do you have stored there that maybe should be stored somewhere else or what have you left there in the past few days that needs to be put back where you safely store it.

That jug of gas that is usually out in the lawnmower/yard tool shed but got brought in the other night to put some gas in the project to hear it run?

That behind the seat gas tank you pulled out of the latest project and set over by the wall because it was dark and you didn't feel like taking it out back where you store stuff in the dark. That tank that is still in the project you just brought in but haven't pulled out yet and you are planning on cutting out the rusted cab corners this afternoon.

Those blue shop towels you used to wipe up the gas off the bench after you flipped the carb over on the bench and spilled the gas that was left out on the bench and floor, are they still in the open trash can at the end of the bench that is close to the vise that you use to hold small objects while you weld and work on them?

That can of lacquer thinner that you got out of the cabinet to wipe off that panel before priming it the other night?

Those cardboard boxes and the paper that was stuffed around the parts that were in them when you unwrapped the new parts that came via UPS on Thursday but didn't carry out to the recycle bin yet.

When you go out in the shop or work area take a look around and make sure that there is nothing that might catch fire or cause a fire that should be stored somewhere else or even removed from a project rig before you start welding, grinding or cutting today.

Thanks so much for bringing this up, we all need to be reminded.

Brian

[reinmeister1951]

I was just going to make one quick cut on a piece of 1/2" round stock this afternoon and managed to catch a plastic bag on fire. It doesn't take much, I had already read this thread and had cleared almost everything that I thought would catch fire. Didn't think a mall bag would be an issue.

[Jurassic-1]

I have a medium size extinguisher in each room in the garage and 1 in each truck. I recently purchased a flammable cabinet for the tons of paint I keep around. I need another one since it does not all fit in one. I always put my thinner rags outside when I finish until they dry then they go directly to outside trash. I worked at Maaco auto paint back in the late 70s and there were many dumpster fires from the paint and solvent soaked material that would spontaneously combust from the heat.

[1project2many]

Boric acid is one of the mildest acids known but it makes a good flame retardant. Spray it on wood or paper and let it dry. It's good to use if you have a wooden workbench or if you're in a wooden shop without sheetrock. If you've ever tried burning a cardboard box from China then you've experienced this stuff. You can buy a bottle of powdered boric acid at the drug store for about $5 to mix with water then spray it on the surfaces you want to protect.

[ratswithmatches]

Good advice all, as we could always do better at minimizing hazards in the shop. I just wanted to clarify what can and cannot spontaneously combust. Spontaneous combustion is the result of a material in the presence of oxygen self-heating, a transition to smoldering combustion, and finally transition to open flame combustion. There are several ways that this can occur, but the process is interrupted by removing OXYGEN from the equation.

Petroleum- and mineral-based oils will not self-heat (or spontaneously combust). It is organic- or vegetable-based oils that self-heat and smolder into a spontaneous combustion scenario, usually in a pile of rags or laundry that contains the remains of an organic-based oil.

The most common organic-based oils that come to mind are linseed oil-based products, which are commonly used in staining wood. Turpentine and paint thinners DO NOT self-heat and cause spontaneous combustion. That also goes for motor oil, transmission fluid, brake fluid, and power steering fluid, and gasoline.

It is true that a rag that contains a vegetable oil, when run through the laundry and then a clothes dryer cycle, CAN achieve sufficient temperature to begin the exothermic (self-heating) reaction under the right circumstances to begin thermal runaway, start smoldering, and ultimately transition to open-flame combustion.

The timeline is generally in excess of 3 hours to combustion and to my knowledge less than 15 hours for a fire to occur with a linseed oil-based material to ignite. I say this because I've been involved in fire tests with piled rags that achieved self-heating all the way through the smoldering stage to open flame combustion. And it happens more than most people imagine, even in cold ambient temperatures.

The takeaway is to keep a metal can with a tightly fitted lid available for safe storage of ANY type of oily rags, but to be especially careful when using any type of stains that contain a vegetable oil. WATCO oil is a common stain that comes to mind. Those labels on the containers, which state for you to submerge the rags in water within a tightly-fitted metal container are the result of lawsuits!

Hope this explains the process of spontaneous combustion a little better.....

My thoughts go out to skymangs and his family.

[Advanced Design]

Again, good information and advice. Skymangs' family can use our help. Please see details in my signature below.