Hoses and Clamps what do I use.

[hatzie]

Fluid and vapor hoses. What should I use? How should I clamp them.

Many aftermarket and even OEM parts, like fuel pumps, transmission coolers, and inline filters, ship with the wrong hoses and cheap incorrect clamps causing more than a little trouble when they fail prematurely on parts like in-tank fuel pumps that are not very accessible.

SAE the Society of Automotive Engineers is a standardization organization that publishes engineering specs for various automotive and industrial systems.
You can search for free overviews of the SAE standards by J number on this page http://standards.sae.org/ Complete white papers can be purchased but they're pretty dry reading.

Most of the larger name hose manufacturers, Goodyear and Gates to name a few, make hoses that specifically meet various SAE standards. When the J-number is printed on the hose you know exactly what that hose was designed to do.

Hopefully this is useful to someone.

Fuel System Hoses

-SAE J30 http://standards.sae.org/j30_199806/

SAE J30 is the SAE standard prefix for fuel hoses. The suffix letter and number gives application specifics.

-SAE J30R6 Fuel Filler Hose http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.co...s/page0033.pdf

Application:

Flexible connection between the rigid filler neck and tank.
Usually supplied with formed bends.

-SAE J30R7 PCV Emission Control Hose http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.co...s/page0031.pdf

Application:

A multipurpose fuel resistant hose. Use for PCV and Charcoal purge lines.
Was used for low pressure fuel hose but J30R9 has a longer service life and a better vapor barrier than J30R7.

Specific Fuel:

Resistant to leaded and unleaded gasoline, diesel fuel, gasoline blends of ethanol (E10), E-85 and sour gas.

Specs:

Working pressure 50PSI
Temperature Range F & C: -40°F to +257°F (-40°C to +125°C)

WARNING: DO NOT USE J30R7 HOSE FOR FUEL INJECTION LINE OR WITH BIODIESEL.

-SAE J30R9 Fuel Injection Hose http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.co...s/page0032.pdf

Application:

Fuel Injection Hose Designed specifically for auto and truck fuel injection systems. Should also be used as low pressure fuel line and fuel vapor recovery line. J30R9 has a better vapor barrier than J30R7.

Specific Fuel:

Gasoline, ethanol extended gasoline (E10, E-85), oxidized sour gas, diesel fuel, biodiesel.

Specs:

Working pressure 100PSI
Temperature Range F & C: -40°F to +257°F (-40°C to +125°C)

WARNING: DO NOT USE J30R9 HOSE FOR FUEL PUMPS INSIDE FUEL TANK.

-J30R10 Submersible fuel injection hose.http://www.gates.com........submersible-fuel-line-hose
Engineered for constant contact with fuels on the inside and outside.

Application:

Fuel Hose capable of handling gasoline, alcohol-extended gasoline or diesel fuel in fully immersed, mobile, stationary and marine applications.

Specific Fuel:

Gasoline, ethanol extended gasoline, oxidized sour gas, and diesel.

Specs:

Working pressure 100PSI
Maximum temperature rating: +302°F (+150°C)

NOTE: Many fuel pumps including units from trusted manufacturers ship with hoses not labeled J30R10. Nowhere in their documentation do they state the included hoses meet this standard. I've had these un-marked hoses split on a car. I had to drop the tank a second time to put in the right stuff. It's far easier to buy hose you know won't fail in service.

-6.2L & 6.5L Diesel Injector Return Hoses Nitrile Butadiene Rubber >NBR< Fuel Hose with Black Woven Cover capable of handling low pressure diesel without clamps.

OEM GERMAN >NBR< Black Woven Cloth Covered Nitrile Butadiene Rubber

Application:
Bosch Injector return line for all GM AMG Detroit 6.2L 6.5L Diesel, 1995 and prior VW/Audi IDI Diesel, and 1999 and prior Mercedes Diesel.

• 1/8" 3.5mm Woven cloth covered >NBR< return fuel line used on VW, AUDI, Mercedes Benz, & GM Bosch type diesel fuel injectors.
  No SAE rating. You can buy 5 meter coils of the real thing on evilbay or shorter lengths from a local VW Audi shop.
  If it doesn't have "MADE IN GERMANY" along with >NBR< emblazoned on the woven cloth cover like the above picture don't buy it or, if you just bought some of the wrong stuff, send it back. As with most things these days there are Chinese counterfeits out there. The counterfeits melt internally.
• The return lines are daisy chained down each injector bank. At the end of the chain on each cylinder head will be a Bosch line cap or terminator Part # VW/Audi 028130229A or 068130229A or Mercedes Benz 4030700055.
  It's not gauche to use a short section of return line with a 3.5mm plug if you're in a bind. Use a 1/8" 3.5mm smooth piece of nail or similar. I cut a couple plugs out of soft black ABS plastic on my 7x14 lathe.

Tygon
DieselPlace thread on Tygon Return lines.
Be sure to get the real thing. If it hasn't got TYGON emblazoned on the tubing it ain't. As with most things these days there are Chinese counterfeits of Tygon fuel line and they melt when exposed to fuel.

[hatzie]

Hot Oil Pressure Hoses

POWER STEERING

-SAE J188 High Pressure Power Steering Hose http://standards.sae.org/j188_201207/

Application:

For use in pre-assembled power steering hoses, with specially crimped ferrules, on the pressure side of automotive and truck power steering systems where resistance to power steering fluid is critical.

Specs:

Working Pressure 1,500PSI
Temperature Range F & C: -40ºF to +250ºF (-40ºC to +120ºC) average, and maximum excursions to 275°F (135°C)

-SAE J189 Low Pressure High Temp Power Steering Return Hose http://standards.sae.org/j189_201207/

Application:

For use on the return side of automotive and truck power steering systems where resistance to power steering fluid is critical.

Specs:

Working Pressure 100PSI
Temperature Range F & C: -40ºF to +250ºF (-40ºC to +121ºC)

WARNING: LOW PRESSSURE HOSE DO NOT USE FOR POWER STEERING PRESSURE LINE.


-SAE J2076 Low Pressure High Temp Power Steering Return Hose http://standards.sae.org/j2050_201207/

Application:

For use on the return side of automotive and truck power steering systems where resistance to power steering fluid is critical.

Specs:

Working Pressure 175PSI
Temperature Range F & C: -40ºF to +302ºF (-40ºC to +150ºC)

WARNING: LOW PRESSURE HOSE DO NOT USE FOR POWER STEERING PRESSURE LINE.

TRANSMISSION COOLER & OIL COOLER

-SAE J1019 High Temperature Transmission and Engine Oil Cooler Hose http://www.veyance.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=6070

Application:

Heat and Oil Resistant Connecting Line Between Oil Cooler and Transmission.

Specs:

Working Pressure 250PSI
Maximum temperature rating: +302°F (+150°C)

[hatzie]

MISC SPECIAL HOSES

SAE J1403 Fiber reinforced Power Brake Vacuum Hose.
http://www.goodyearrubberproducts.co...s/page0039.pdf

Light duty J1403 Type LWA
Heavy Duty J1403 Type HWA

Application:

Power brake vacuum applications on cars and light-duty trucks.

Specs:

Max Vacuum 26in Hg

SAE J20 R1-R4 Class D1 - D3 Coolant System Hoses.
Regular coolant hoses fall under this spec. I added it just to be complete.
Most decent quality formed and straight coolant hoses will meet this spec.

The J20 Government Supplement Spec... Pretty dry reading but here it is.

http://autoparts-standard.org/index/...J20-1-2009.pdf
http://www.mediafire.com/view/3qskmx...J20-1-2009.pdf

Application:

Radiator, Heater, and Engine Coolant Bypass.

[hatzie]

Hose Clamps

SAE International and the US Military TACOM maintain the following specifications for hose clamping and sealing;

• SAE J1508 is specifications for thirty-two different hose clamp designs, including screw, spring, and t-bolt styles.
• SAE J1610 is specifications for the testing the sealing of hoses.
• The US Army TACOM maintains Commercial Item Description (CID) A-A-52506 that provides for the standardized acquisition of hose clamps by the Department of Defense; the CID references the SAE specifications.
  This CID superseded Federal Specification WW-C-440 for hose clamps in 1994.

If that didn't turn your brain to jello... you can see why it's fairly easy to use the wrong clamp for the job. There are so many to choose from... including clamps that are not suited for the job.
Worm gear clamps are a good example. Just because you can spin a 1/2" ID worm gear clamp down to squeeze 3/8" OD hose, or you can buy one at NAPA labeled 3/8" OD hose, doesn't mean it's working as well as a clamp designed and sized for that job.

Here are the ones that can and should, IMHO, be used on our vehicles.

-Worm Gear Clamps Or Jubilee clamps
I avoid worm gear clamps if I can. They do have their place but there are usually better options.
Better quality Worm Gear Clamps are available for a little more money with extended unslotted bands on the inside to protect hoses from damage and a better worm assemby. Google "Breeze Liner" worm gear hose clamps for an example.

Amazon has a pretty decent selection of Breeze Liner Worm Clamps.

Application:

Low pressure large hoses such as Radiator hoses, Heater Hoses, Fuel tank filler hoses.
Not suitable for hoses smaller than 5/8" (16mm) outside diameter.

Pros:

• Re-Usable.
• Cheap and very available.
• One clamp can fit a range of hoses.

Cons:

• Not pretty.
• Loosen over time.
• Can be overtightened.
• Adjuster can cause clearance issues.
• Worm slots tend to damage hoses by extruding outer jacket through slots if clamp is not equipped with protective inside tang.
• Worm drive tends to push band into hose and stall before proper tension is achieved.
• Not suitable for hoses under 5/8" (16mm) diameter because the worm can't properly engage band slots.

------------

-Fuel Injection Hose Clamps
https://www.google.com/search?q=ABA+...lamps&ie=UTF-8

Application:

18mm @11/16" OD and smaller Fuel hoses, Oil Cooler hoses, Power Steering hoses, and Transmission Cooler hoses.
Removable to service inline fuel/transmission/power-steering filters, fuel tank selector valves, and inline electric fuel pumps.

Pros:

• Re-Usable.
• Inexpensive.
• Excellent for small diameter hoses.
• Excellent for high pressure hoses.
• Will maintain high clamping force over time.
• Clamping force is applied equally around the circumference of the hose.
• Will not damage hoses by extruding hose jacket through clamping surface.

Cons:

• Can be overtightened.
• Adjuster can cause clearance issues.
• Not available for larger diameter hoses... There are better choices for intercooler and radiator hoses.
• Each size fits a narrow hose diameter range.
• Good selection of sizes hard to find locally.

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-Constant Tension Band Clamps
Band of spring steel with release tangs.
https://www.rotorclip.com/hose_clamp_overview.php

Application:

Radiator hoses, Heater Hoses, Fuel tank filler hoses, Transmission cooler hoses, Power steering return hoses, Low pressure fuel lines.

Pros:

• Re-Usable.
• Inexpensive.
• Can be installed with pliers.
• Tool available to ease installation and removal.
  $35-$40 OTC 4525 (locks with 4 detents) or the nicer $60-$75 Draper 89793 Ratcheting are fairly inexpensive.
• Release ears are lower profile for better clearance.
• Excellent for small and larger diameter hoses.
• Will not loosen and maintains high clamping force over time.
• Clamping force is applied equally around the circumference of the hose.
• Will not damage hoses by extruding hose jacket through clamping surface.

Cons:

• Not good for high pressure hoses.
• Each size fits a narrow hose diameter range.
• Good selection of sizes hard to find locally.

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-Constant Torque or Constant Tension Hose Clamps

Spring loaded screw adjustable band clamp for larger diameter hoses. Narrow diameter range for each clamp. Available in Worm and T-Bolt.

Application:

Intercooler hoses, Radiator hoses, Fuel filler hoses, and Air intake hoses.

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-T-Bolt Hose Clamps
https://www.google.com/search?q=t-BO...lamps&ie=UTF-8

T-Bolt clamps provide uniform sealing pressure for a positive, reliable seal. Designed for use in high vibration and large diameter applications common in heavy trucks, industrial machinery, off-road equipment, agricultural irrigation and machinery.
Hybrid Constant Tension T-Bolt Clamps with tension spring around the adjuster stud clamps are available.

Application:

Intercooler hoses. Radiator hoses on Medium & Heavy truck engines, Buses, Tractors, and Construction Equipment engines.

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-Crimp on Band Clamps, Pinch Clamps or, Ear Clamps... Sometimes called Oetiker Clamps

McMaster Carr sells them

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/122/309/=10ztabc {Thanks Ken and ElGracho}

MSC Industrial sells Oetiker individual clamps and the crimping tool or shop kits that come with with the crimp tool.

http://www.mscdirect.com Oetiker Ear Clamps
http://www.mscdirect.com Oetiker Ear Clamp Kits

Amazon has individual Oetiker clamps and shop kits as well for pretty good prices. Search "Oetiker Clamps" on Amazon there are several hundred hits.

Application:

Axle Joint Boots, Power Steering lines, Transmission cooler lines, Fuel Injection lines...

Pros:

• Cheap.
• Even clamping force.
• Low clamp height easy obstruction clearance.
• Low weight will not unbalance rotating assemblies.

Cons:

• Throwaway part. Single use.
• Can damage hoses boots etc if the installer is not careful.
• Needs special tool for application and can't be installed on vehicle in low clearance areas because of tool clearance.

------------


-Wittek Type Tower Hose Clamps

I included these because someone will ask.
These are generally expensive and only a handful of suppliers sell them.
I'd use these if you want or need a "Correct" replacement hose clamp on your antique that used these as original equipment.

Application:

Antiques. Will find them on Vintage Tractors, Trucks, Corvettes, and Cadillacs among others.

-------------------------------------

Special Tools For Brake and Cooling Hard Lines

Tube Bead Tools

Parker Beading Tool
VERY pricey but Parker is the gold standard in tube beading tools.
You will pay as much for a decent used set as brand new ones. Used go pretty quick if they are 20-25% under new.
This means you can sell em for a pretty dear price if you take care of em and are willing to wait a bit.

• Aircraft Tool Supply sells a complete set of new tools in a blow moulded case.
  http://www.aircraft-tool.com/shop/de...oduct_id=AP145
• Graham Tool Co. sells single beading tools. How many of us need to bead 3/4" to 1.25" tube? Why buy the whole set of three if you only need to bead 1/4" to 3/8"? OTOH Pay attention...
  The price of two tools and the holding fixture, if you don't have some other mandrel to hold the tube from spinning, can come very close to cost of the full set of three beading tools with the holding fixture... and you get the blow moulded case.
  http://www.grahamtool.com/tubebeadingtool.aspx

Earls EZ Beading Tool
If you're only doing a few tubes the Earls EZ Beader is OK.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Earls/Earls-EZ...40092/10002/-1

Shop Made Beading Tool

I've seen pictures of something similar to the Parker Type tools made by modifying a copper pipe cutoff tool.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=51655

Flare Tooling
http://www.eastwood.com/....tips-tricks-brake-lines

Mastercool Inc.
Pretty pricey but again it's the gold standard of flare tooling. Easily the most versatile of all the flare tools I've owned. If you intend to do a full set of brake lines you'll love it.
Like the Parker tools it will hold its' value. I almost never see used sets for sale and when they come up they're gone quick.

• This is a hand held tool. You do not need a vise so you can flare lines on the car or truck.
• With a full set of dies it will make GM Push Connect Transmission cooler and Fuel line, Metric ISO Bubble flares, and 45° and 37° inverted double flares.
• The "Universal" 71475 set contains every die available except 37° inverted flare dies and 3/8 GM Push Connect transmission die. There are several less comprehensive sets for less money. Any additional dies can be purchased later.
• Universal die set and Hydra-Flare set 71475 with blow moulded case. @ $300 at this writing.
• SAE 45° Hydra-Flare set 71300 @ $260 at this writing.

Eastwood Pro Flaring Tool
Leveraged Manual Double Flaring Tool.
One of the best manual tools I've seen. The Base tool doesn't do GM fuel and Transmission line crimps or 37° flares. The only optional die set is the 37° flares. No GM fuel or transmission line dies exist at this writing.

• This is not a hand tool. You need stout vise mounted to something that's not going to move.
• If you only intend to make 45° brake lines this is an excellent tool.
  It is priced roughly the same as the Mastercool 71300 Base SAE 45° Hydra-Flare set when they aren't on sale so...
  When you tack on the 37° dies the price is pretty close to the Mastercool Universal set.
  IMHO If you have European cars in your stable, or you ever intend to make the GM fuel/transmission lines, get one of the Mastercool sets.
• Eastwood Pro Brake Tubing Flaring Tool
• Eastwood 37-degree Flare Dies for EW Pro. Flare Tool

Wing Nut Hand Operated Flaring Tool
Various levels of this tooling exist some good some bad. Pricing from $20 - $100. You can rent em from AutoZone.
Fairly difficult to get good flares with this tool. I'd only use one if I only had a few lines to flare.

Small Diameter Tube Handling

Tube Bending Tools
Eastwood sells some very nice individual tube handling tools that make it easier to bend and straighten 3/6" - 3/8" brake and oil cooler lines without kinking them.

Eastwood Tubing Bender and Forming Pliers Kit Item #13621
The pliers are available separately if you already have a mandrel bender.

• Pliers for making short bends at the ends of 3/16" & 1/4" tubes and making slight adjustments to X-Y-Z axis of bends without kinking the tube. This seems to be fairly exclusive to Eastwood. I haven't seen a knockoff of this particular tool.
• Mandrel Tube Bender for 3/6" - 3/8" tubes. NOTE: I have a similar mandrel bender that I picked up 20 or more years ago at one of the big box stores. Eastwood is not the only outfit that carries them but the package is convenient.

Coiled Tube Straightening Tools

Handheld KWIX-UK type.KWIX-UK Tube Straightener Review by Canadian Paul Short
One or two passes straigtens the line right out.
Very convenient. Hand held and don't need a vise. You can use em under the vehicle if you need to.
Has slot for "Sharpie" type Marking Pen to provide a registration line to make it easier to put bends in the proper X-Y-Z axis orientation.
They are for straightening one specific tube size so if you want to buy 7mm, 3/16, 4.5mm, & 5/16 tubing you need four. Two Straighteners are cheaper than the Brakequip etc and Inline Tube units. Three or more starts to get expensive.

Where Do I get em?

• KWIX-UK makes some real high end handheld tube straightening tools for sale in the UK, Europe, and Canada.
• Eastwood sells a re-branded version of the same high end tool in the US. Under $100 US for one tube size as of this writing.

"Bundy" Bench Mounted
These will straighten any thinwall tube size that will fit through the rollers.

Where Do I get em?

• "Inline Tube" Tubing Straightener Built Fairly stout. It better be for $200+. The rollers in this unit are supported on both sides so the axles will not bend.
• Brakequip Tube Straightener Lighter duty than the "Inline Tube" straightener and its' clones. The wheels are only supported on one side.
• Jalopy Journal Home Brew Tube Straightener Roll Your own similar to the Brakequip or Inline Tube units.
  Not as neat as the KWIX-UK units.

***NOTE: I have listed several tools from Eastwood Inc. I do not own stock in or work for said company. They are a decent convenient tool and finish resource for the home shop, hot-rodding and, restoration community with what appear to be reasonable to OK prices. Everything I've bought from them has met or exceeded my expectations. They have not provided me with free tools or any other compensation.

[1970pelle]

Guys the crimp on band clamps are great. I use the heck out of them. I restore older Harley Davidson's and they used these style clamps on all there oil lines. I had a very hard time finding them at a decent price.
If in a bind you can buy them from your local Harley Davidson parts department, for approx. $5.00 each ouch right ?
I found that McMaster Carr has them in stock, but there online catalog doesn't show them, you have to call in with the sizes you want. And they will hook you up, and there prices are much better.
And finally just the other day I was in Home Depot and found them in the plumbing department, in pack of 20 for around 10 bucks.

Ken

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by 1970pelle

Guys the crimp on band clamps are great. I use the heck out of them. I restore older Harley Davidson's and they used these style clamps on all there oil lines. I had a very hard time finding them at a decent price.
If in a bind you can buy them from your local Harley Davidson parts department, for approx. $5.00 each ouch right ?
I found that McMaster Carr has them in stock, but there online catalog doesn't show them, you have to call in with the sizes you want. And they will hook you up, and there prices are much better.
And finally just the other day I was in Home Depot and found them in the plumbing department, in pack of 20 for around 10 bucks.

Ken

Added the McMaster offline order info to the crimp clamp description. Thanks for that.

Depends on whether you need to take em on and off for maintenance. Oil cooler line flex sections and CV boots are a good place for em.
You want German Fuel Injection Clamps or Rotor Clip Constant Tension Clamps on things like inline fuel/transmission/power-steering filters, tank selector valves, and electric fuel pump connections.

One thing I didn't mention was the need for beads on pressure lines to make keeping the hoses in place easier.

[gmachinz]

T-bolts are what I prefer to use on radiator hoses because hey are a high grade of stainless and are extremely stout! Besides its a little thing among many that stand out if its a local build which I'm any part of....nobody thinks outside of the box much when it comes to higher end fasteners....at least not around my area.

[ElGracho]

Excellent writeup.

Originally Posted by 1970pelle

...I found that McMaster Carr has them in stock, but there online catalog doesn't show them, you have to call in with the sizes you want. ...
Ken

Originally Posted by hatzie

Added the McMaster offline order info to the crimp clamp description. Thanks for that...

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/122/309

[hatzie]

Originally Posted by ElGracho

Excellent writeup.





http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/122/309

Thanks. Adding it now...

[walkerb]

Great info, Thanks hatzie

[bhc41051]

Very nice write up, Very informative. My 75 K-10 still has the original Wittek clamps on the heater hoses. Been doing the job for 40 years now, I've put together a NOS set for the radiator hoses I'll be installing shortly. I've tried but I just can't think outside the AC Delco box.

[72bowtiestepper]

Great info. hatzie ! Thanks for taking the time to post. Doing the job right includes all the details....including hoses & clamps.

[Desert1957]

Great Post!

[hatzie]

Cheap isn't a bad thing.
Have a look on Amazon
There are a few in the $20-$35 range that have enough decent reviews that they can't all be from shills. I don't use the cable tools on radiator hoses. The locking spring clamp pliers or channel locks will do them.

[hatzie]

I have plenty of experience with steel and SAE fuel, oil etc hose.

I do not have experience with the new black Nylon fuel lines used on the more recent LT1 & LS motors and a lot of other more modern vehicles that some of us are borrowing drivetrains from.
I'm not finding a lot of information on an SAE spec so far but I'm sure one exists.
What do you folks know about it?
Tooling for termination?
What to look out for so you get the proper line and not some cheesy stuff that's going to melt from a year of fuel exposure or get brittle?
Is it so reliable that nobody has to mess with it? Or just too new?

I'll try to compile some information eventually. I'm interested in some input from folks that have worked with it.

[tucsonjwt]

I don't think I could get the channel lock style locking pliers on the bottom hoses of the radiator - there is no room to maneuver a wrench. The cable style just needs room to hook on the top of the clamp.