pushrod problem

[SmokeShadows]

so my issue is that I suspect I over revved the engine one time on a "journey" and it started to make a horrible ticking clicking sound, I assumed it was a lifter tick but it was louder then it seems it should have been, I turned it off for a couple hours and started it back up to drive 20 miles home and same noise, the ride was rougher then usual, I got home I parked it and opened the valve cover which I suspected contained the problem and came across one of the cylinders rocker arms weren't even on the push rods and one of the pushrods was almost all the way in, the bolts weren't falling off , no excessive wear or obvious signed of failure, now iv done much research with no luck, the questions are: what's causing the pushrod to fall all the way in? is it possible for it to jump out of place? can I just replace the lifters rods rocker arms etc? any information is much appreciated i know i may be asking alot but it seems like it was fine one second and one rev later tick tick tick oh and the motor is a sbc 350 71 gmc 57xxx miles edelbrock intake/carb

[old Chevy guy]

Did you pull those two rods out, are they bent or damaged on the bottom?if you turn it over without letting it start are those rods trying to go up and down or not?

[SmokeShadows]

I have not tried to turn it over with the valve cover off and the rod way down low like that, will it harm anything with it so down or should I take them out first? I'm assuming if they don't move it's a cam issue? thanks for the quick reply

[LockDoc]

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Looks like the rocker arm studs pulled out of the head. Check the height of those studs compared to the others....

LockDoc

[MikeB]

If you're lucky, the pressed-in studs are pulling out of the head. If not, a couple cam lobes and lifters are wiped.

I guess it could also be collapsed lifters, but I'm not sure that would be enough slack for the rockers to jump off of the push rods.

[SmokeShadows]

I pulled out the rods and they don't appear to be in damaged condition but the way the one sinks all the way in is my main concern, it does look like the 2 rocker studs may be pulled out a tiny bit more than the rest, if they did pull out and the rods fell out of place could this cause the lifter to collapse and make the rod go so far down like it is?

[LockDoc]

Originally Posted by SmokeShadows

I pulled out the rods and they don't appear to be in damaged condition but the way the one sinks all the way in is my main concern, it does look like the 2 rocker studs may be pulled out a tiny bit more than the rest, if they did pull out and the rods fell out of place could this cause the lifter to collapse and make the rod go so far down like it is?

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I would say that the push rod just came out of the lifter. You should be able to raise it up and seat it back into the lifter. I would get the push rod in place, have someone turn the engine over and see if the push rods move up & down. (unhook the distributor wire if it is an HEI or the coil wire if it is a standard distributor)

If the push rods move up & down OK put the lifters back over the push rods and take a good size brass or lead hammer (not steel) and hammer the studs back down. After you have the studs back in place see if the rockers feel about the same as the others. If they do start the engine and see how it runs. If everything stays in place and it sounds OK you then have two choices, drill & pin the studs or pull them out and replace them....

Be sure and pull the other valve cover if you haven't already and check the height of all of the other studs.

LockDoc

[LockDoc]

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I forgot to mention to turn the engine over to make sure that the push rod is down as far as it will go on the stud you are going to hammer down.

LockDoc

[Mrturner1]

This might just be camera angle or I'm seeing it wrong, but to me it looks like one of your rocker nuts is much higher on the stud than the rest. It's the one that you're having an issue with too, maybe that's part of it.

[SmokeShadows]

the nuts on the studa being loosened was me to check to rods and upon further inspection the one rod that's fallen in has been flattened a little bit

[RodnRudy]

Check the rocker arms and make sure the bottom of them where the rocker pivot is located aren't broken out. That happened to me once and caused the rocker arms to rotate off the push rods and top of the valve stems.

[RichardJ]

#5 EX stud has 4 threads showing and so does #7 IN stud. That indicates the last valve adjustment was done very poorly OR that the studs were starting to pull out before the last adjustment was done.

Lay a straight edge across the top of all the studs and that will tell you the first issue that needs to be addressed.

The bottoms of the rockers do bust out, but probably not in conjunction with the already exposed threads. Not likely a cam lobe or bad lifter for the same reason.
The exposed threads/adjustment occurred before the current issue.

Don't be overly concerned about the damaged push rod tips. The stock rolled tip rods can get pretty buggered up and never cause a catastrophic problem. I would replace them with rods with the inserted steel tips.
The flaps, across the counter stock Sealed Power replacement rods are that type.

[SmokeShadows]

ok so I'm planning on getting this issue straighten out, my main concern is still how the pushrod is sitting so far down in the head like it won't seat properly, can anybody think of why it won't seat normally like the other ones? I'm still worried about trying to turn it over with it like that, iv got a few quotes on repairing the rocker studs and yeah the two on that cylinder are indeed pulled out further than the rest which is probably the root of my problems, I'll be pulling the other valve cover to check out the other side today but just wanted some more input from the board before I dig myself a hole bigger than I can get out

[Whitlock]

You have to get the push rod seated in the lifter. If you have it in the lifter and it is still that low you have a collapsed lifter. One thing about the sbc if you put a bigger than stock cam in you better put in screw in studs. If you haven't yet roll those push rods on a flat surface to see if they are bent.


W

[SmokeShadows]

as far as I can tell the cam is stock, upon further investigation the exhaust bolt on the jacked up cylinder was loose and may be the root of my entire problem but I'm not 100% sure, so If its a collapsed lifter that's causing the pushrod to fall inside the head so far will I have to get a cam and lifter kit? I was looking at then on summit and found (Summit Racing® Classic Cam and Lifter Kits SUM-K1103 summitracing.com/parts/sum-k1103) would this be a suitable fix? in addition to the rocker studs repair? any opinions or suggestions are appreciated, thanks for everything so far as im thinking iv got it narrowed down

[SmokeShadows]

oh and when I go to "seat the pushrod onto the lifter" it just falls almost all the way in to where maybe 1/4 inch is sticking out of the head and I can barely grab it, the other pushrod I can feel the resistance where I'm assuming it's hitting the lifter and it stops at approximately normal hight

[hamjet]

See if you can get a flashlight and try to see if the lifter popped out of its bore. this won't happen on a well worn lifter but if you just recently put new lifters and cam in it could. the pushrod won't drop that far down with a collapsed lifter.

[SmokeShadows]

that sounds like you may have hit it on the head with that one, but like I said before, im pretty sure the cam is stock, but ill peep it with a flashlight to see if I can see anything but just out of gut feeling that's probably it, i didn't even know that was possible but if it did pop out could I just put it back in and run it? or is it still recommended to replace?

[hamjet]

"IF" it did pop out you CAN put it back in the same hole as long as the lifter/cam lobe look OK. Problem is, you will most likely have to pull the intake to get the lifter back in the bore.

[old Chevy guy]

I was wondering to if the lifter was out of the bore too but wasn't sure that was even possible. At this point maybe you should just yank off the intake and put the guessing to rest. It won't take that long and the gaskets can't be to much.

[SmokeShadows]

Yeah I'm going to pull the intake for further inspection but just wanted some options and other people's thoughts on the matter before I get too deep, I have an idea in what to expect when I start tearing it down, thank you guys for the advice and information provided, I'm pretty sure that I've been able to narrow down the cause of the problem as well as the solution

[old Chevy guy]

Keep everyone in the loop when you figure it out. Everyone is always curious to know what happens in the end. Good luck hopefully it won't be to bad.

[SmokeShadows]

I'll definitely see this thread till the end and hopefully the outcome is good, im going to try to keep this repair strategic and straight to the problem because I do plan on going aftermarket cam lifters heads etc but I just want to get my truck back on the road for now, i just hope when I pull the intake that more problems don't come up because iv already found a couple things that aren't in order and of left unattended could cause more problems, I'm thinking my issue is that the exhaust bolt being loose may have had an impact on the rocker arm studs being prematurely pulled out which lead to the arms slipping off and the lifter popped out when I revved it a little too much and the pushrod got wedged up when the lifter popped out, I'll take pictures and post them if I find anything out of the ordinary when I pull the intake and also post my findings, but in the meantime if anyone has any other input please let me know

[Whitlock]

Exhast bolt had nothing to do with the problem.
Over reving it is more than likely what happened.
Highly dought the cam is bad.
I have done this very thing to a few small blocks over the years.
You will learn a lot after you that off the intake.

Good luck,W

[SmokeShadows]

I only say that the exhaust bolt had something to do with it because it's the exhaust lifter that may have popped out of its bore, it may not exactly have to do with the rocker studs pulling out being as they both pulled out on the same cylinder but probably has more to do with the lifter issue, still in research and development though, I'm planning to open it up and check to see if there's any obvious sign of damage other than the one pushrod and if not then just put it back together with new gaskets, a new pushrod and proper adjustment with my fingers crossed all will go well haha but we'll see how things actually go