Newer EFI units?

[wolffcub]

Was just bored yesterday with a headache in bed and got to thinking. I have not seen any tests or install info on possibly taking one of the newer ez-efi or similar 4 barrels and slapping it on a 235-261 or other inline yet. Is there some sort of inherent issues that will happen or is it more of a cost thing? Would be interesting to know what others might think of this application on a 235-261 with a 4 barrel intake.

[mr48chev]

I'd have to believe that the cost of the unit plus the cost of the intake has slowed down most guys who have thought of doing that. I've wanted to do it on my 71 GMC with the 500 Cad in it but again the cost of the unit would take a lot of miles of driving to make it $$ viable.

[01spirit750]

There are more options now and the costs have come down.
I bought my EZ efi a few years ago, and I just got it installed last weekend. I am running a 350 SBC (not a 6 like you are asking about) It is still learning and fine tuning. So far the cold start is a major improvement over the 750 cfm carb I had. I have a Edelbrock RPM cam and it is a bit wild, the fuel injection has definitely improved the overall drivability.

[tmoble]

easier and much cheaper to install a 350 or 454 TBI unit off a Chevy pickup.

see:
http://tbichips.com/

http://www.persh.org/pickup/tbi-1.htm

http://chevythunder.com/gm_throttle_...ction_pg_1.htm

I'm going to be doing one of these on my buddies 235 this fall. No fancy stuff, it already has a 4-bbl manifold on it, I'll make some kind of little plate to bolt on the 350 TBI unit. I may use a mega-squirt aftermarket computer to run it or round a chevy pickup computer and harness.

[HUSSEY]

Originally Posted by tmoble

easier and much cheaper to install a 350 or 454 TBI unit off a Chevy pickup.

see:
http://tbichips.com/

http://www.persh.org/pickup/tbi-1.htm

http://chevythunder.com/gm_throttle_...ction_pg_1.htm

I'm going to be doing one of these on my buddies 235 this fall. No fancy stuff, it already has a 4-bbl manifold on it, I'll make some kind of little plate to bolt on the 350 TBI unit. I may use a mega-squirt aftermarket computer to run it or round a chevy pickup computer and harness.

I'm doing a TBI transplant and went with a wiring harness from Fuel Injection Connection. They don't have a flashy website buy sell a great product. I first tried to get one off a truck at the salvage yard but with most harnesses being 20+ years old, as soon as I started handling them to much the insulation start cracking.

http://fuelinjectionconnection.com/

Their harness was competitively price and installed very, very easy.

I'm currently running a stock engine and stock computer. If I make any engine mods I will likely go with this guys ECM which lets you program it without having to flash a chip.

http://www.dynamicefi.com/

[_Ogre]

if the cost doesn't scare you off, i'd do it in a heartbeat
i'd never go back to anything carbureted, i'm hoping my next lawn mower is efi
never considered anything but efi for my truk, when gm came out with the ramjet350 i bought one

they say the ez-efi works for 4, 6 or 8 cyl motors (probably 10 and 12 cyl too)
you'd need to adapt the I6 to a 4bbl carb with an adapter and throw an electric pump on
some require a return line to the tank, some do not
everything else is in the setup menus

the tbi conversion might be cheaper, but i doubt if it's easier, ez-efi is prety much plug and play
i talked to a guy last year who converted his 327 67 camaro to ez-efi
he said it was the best mod he's ever done to it
his was still learning with less than 100 miles on it, but cold start problems were gone on the first start
and it looked stock under the stock air filter

[wolffcub]

I was thinking about this one. Easy install and cheaper.

http://fitechefi.com/30002.html

[_Ogre]

Originally Posted by wolffcub

I was thinking about this one. Easy install and cheaper.

http://fitechefi.com/30002.html

the price is right, depends on how many options you need to buy
no real secondaries on efi, just throttle plates, all opening the same amount
between throttle position sensors, ait (air inlet temp) and the O2 sensors they learn the motor

throttle plates on efi vehicles typically only have on big throttle body plate
but then the injectors are down stream of the throttle body or direct injection
with the injector right at the throttle plate you need multiple plates to direct the flow past each injector

[wolffcub]

What i don't see listed is how are the secondaries controlled? Im guessing vacuum would be best as then the poor inline wont suffer too much with over a carb issue.

[1project2many]

Bob Rausher of Dynamic EFI is a good guy and his product is really a top notch modification to early GM C3 computers. When there is less needed for custom functions or controls using a 94-95 auto trans equipped TBI truck pcm gives a great amount of flexibility as one can choose to use an electronically controlled 4L60E or 4L80E or an older auto or manual. This option utilizes a stock computer and works with standard diagnostic tools when out on the road. MEFI marine computers similar to what is offered in the Ramjet sometimes show up used on CL or Ebay for a reasonable price. Megasquirt is popular and has a relatively easy to use tuning interface and good forum support.

Almost all of the multi-plate TB's are fully mechanical and many open all plates simultaneously. EFI atomizes fuel well enough that the strong signal of a small primary bore isn't as necessary. I have worked on systems with staged mechanical secondaries and other than having fuel maps that show a dramatic change in injector on time vs throttle angle, they don't generally require any magic. This is a staged TB from a marine intake I installed on my Chevelle:

The world of tuning and programming can seem very complex when you first get into it. There is no one single recipe that is best although there are some approaches that require more work. I've been retrofitting GM vehicles with EFI since '93 or so (although not so many EFI projects lately), before many of the tools available today were in reach of the average guy. Once a truck is equipped with a properly tuned and configured EFI system there are few who want to go back. Retrofits are fairly common to find on sites such as gearhead-efi.com.

[mr48chev]

I've got a buddy who has lost track of the TBI transplants he has done over the years in his shop but that doesn't help me with the 500 Cad in my 3/4 ton.

I've got to get it dialed in on a carburetor and all squared away before I start thinking FI though. I don't want to be trying to get fi to work right when I don't have the rest of it squared away.

[joedoh]

I built a megasquirt years ago and used a salvage throttle body, even did ford EDIS back when it was a "hack", now its offered as an option to the base kit. Even then the MS forums were full of guys tuning and sharing their maps. The entire system was under $400 and worked perfectly.

I did a lot of reading on the simple digital systems site back then, which I am glad to see is still around

http://www.sdsefi.com/tech.html

if that doesnt answer most of your questions about EFI conversion and benefits, not much will. once you break it down to

1. throttle body sized to the engine
2. injector(s) sized to the engine
3. inputs expected by the EFI computer
4. fuel system requirements

then it is very simple. fast efi and fitech have just standardized this formula, and their bolt on kits are truly bolt on, done in a weekend kind of installs. The TBI setups are very versatile and even using a megasquirt on a TBI will result in a system that can be used on just about any engine because they used almost the same throttle body on all kinds of engines from 4 cylinders to big blocks.

The only question I have about using it on your inliner is if you can get a 4 bbl adapter for the intake to mount the fitech throttle body. past that, it is very easy once you decide on a budget.

[1project2many]

Originally Posted by mr48chev

I've got a buddy who has lost track of the TBI transplants he has done over the years in his shop but that doesn't help me with the 500 Cad in my 3/4 ton.

I've got to get it dialed in on a carburetor and all squared away before I start thinking FI though. I don't want to be trying to get fi to work right when I don't have the rest of it squared away.

Caddy EFI is not so tough if not expecting high hp. 472/500 engines were equipped with port fuel injection and later GM ecm can be used to control injectors and spark If too hard to find (they are like hen's teeth) then TB or dual TB will work. I have a 4bbl TB from "auto-nomics" which was an early Impco system. This TB could be matched to four 50#/hr injectors to cover mild engine build. Spark would require modification of HEI distributor but still within reason.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-1979-Ca...-/151460378609

[wolffcub]

Great to see the contributions to the topic. Not steering away too much from doing your own EFI from all sorts of engines and or places people see any issues from just using one of the plug and play units. Im actually really interested in trying the fitech unit if it has no apparent issues.

I was thinking about it being an issue in regards to over carbing as with a basic 4 barrel people have used but I guess as noted above you don't have to worry about a strong signal to pull the fuel from the carb due to the injectors. I general story is that the 4 barrel setup kill most of the low end and run fine in the highs.

This conversion has got me interested for a few reasons.

#1 When I park the truck in the attached garage I get the fuel smell. The reason for this is not due to leaks at all but the hot heat radiating from the intake and carbs and venting to the atmosphere from the vent holes in the carb bowls. The CW units Tom L sells have punched holes in the tops of the bowls to vent as the solenoid controlled vent is disabled. Its something i really want to solve and not have to worry about finding another place to park the truck.

#2 Possibly get better mileage. Last weekend i got 18mpg highway and that's not so bad but the city mileage is bad. I'm filling up every few days. If i punch on it the amt of raw fuel the carbs put out just due to the accelerator pump is too much for the thing to suck in and the raw fuel smell is strong as it lingers for a while. Granted this is just poor driving habits and i should possibly just always ease into it more often. Was thinking the efi would help this as its always sensing and adjusting itself. thoughts?

#3 The idea of possibly playing with timing adjust down the road might be useful.

#4 I have not had an issue yet with cold or hot starting but others have and this might help them out as i hear thats one of the most common things people post about that improved after the install.

[tmoble]

That ebay manifold is interesting. I wonder if at least the bottom half of the injectors are like the standard Bosh type. Actually, seems like it's too early to have been anything else.

Looks like that deal could be made to work without too much trouble. Figure out what TB to use might be the hardest part. Fuel rail looks OK, usable. t-stat is on top of the timing cover/waterpump, CTS goes there. Use microsquirt for economy, those things are cheap. Lots of Caddy HEIs out there.

I was over at my buddy the fabricators' place last week. He's got an early 60 IH pickup, he already converted it to 70-81 Camaro front stub and converted the back to a Ford 9' on leaf springs. We installed a 69 Caddy 472. I've got to go over this week and drop the HEI and install the Quadrajet carb. Thing will be a torque monster. I think the rear is a 2.87 or similar, we don't need no stinkin' overdrive.

[tmoble]

wolffcub,

you might want wander over to www.chevelles.com/forums. There's an EFI section under the Performance forum. The FITECHEFI deal is getting hammered hard for increasingly slipping ship dates and the already known problems with the fuel command center (read:surge tank) are getting worse and not being addressed timely by the company. There's talk of a recall due to fire hazard issues. FWIW.

[1fast10]

Holley all the way. Ive sold installed and tuned many of the brands out there and by far the holley units have been the easiest to get going exspecially for a dyi'er. A great example is the kast 2 terminator ecu throttlbody units one on a zz4 crate motor and one on a 351m motor. Both crank within the 2nd try and both took very little tweeking. Literally used the self learn to get it going and its around 90% of being perfect. If anyone is interested mesg or call me 919-219-8601 about the holley units. The terminator and the sniper efi. Im also a dealer so i can get at better price.

[iowaboynca]

wolfcub,
To go back to your original question, IMO, it is a bit cost prohibitive, even though there are systems out there that are becoming more affordable. One thing that people haven't brought up yet is fuel delivery. Your going to need to take a look at pump, filter tank, etc to ensure everything works on the new system too.

I went with the FITech system. I got it off the LMC truck site back in May when they were running a rebate program. It was back ordered when I got it but it was only delayed for about 2 weeks. I was on the fence between this system and Holley's new Sniper system primarily both were in my ballpark for cost and functionality. I believe the Sniper system just started shipping out and LMC is still selling theirs, but you have to hunt for it on there site.

My setup will be much different than the setup you're asking about. I got a steal on a 5.3L long block w/o the ecu or harness. When i started pricing things out and going after the desired look, this was the way to go in my book. Now I'm nowhere close to firing mine up yet but when I've asked guys that have them at the few shows I've gone to this year, they love them. Now this is only 5-6 guys in maybe a 90mi radius of the bay area, so not very scientific.

In closing, probably not something you're going to save money on, but will probably improve drive-ability. It would be different so that would make it cool, just matters how much time, effort and money its worth.