WOW! Shop refused to

[ubtripn]

bleed my breaks. I wanted a full fluid exchange so I took it into a shop. They bled them after I had installed a new MC but did not get all the air out so I made an appointment for today at 8am and went back. The guy at the counter was nice but he said the mechanic, "refused" to bleed my brakes for a second time." The owner is the one that had me schedule this follow-up. I look over and the, "mechanic" is a 20 something and playing on his phone, literally playing the same game I have seen my son play. I asked why?? He says one of your lines touches a header. I said they are hard lines and this has never presented an issue before and the brakes were working before the mc swap so it is not a variable. I then said, I am not judging the kids skill I just know there is still air in the system and I don't have the tool at home to suck all the fluid out. He then proceeds to tell me how to bleed brakes manually so I stop him. I re-state that I had made an appointment, left work, travelled across town to be told no? I then said why didn't you call me then, he replied I was just about to???? When, at my appointment time? Oh well....Go Firest*ne!

I am just going to buy the tool and throw a bit of heat shield on the 1 micron amount of space where the line touches the header.

[LongBox]

I don't know what tool you are thinking of, but I use a Mityvac, and it works well for me. If you go this route, make sure you follow the right bleeding sequence for vacuum bleeding, starting with the wheel closest to the MC, and working your way out from there.

[Layne]

That is part of the job. Tell him to finish the job, or refund your money.

[plastercracker]

i use a snap on bleeder canister. you hook a air hose to it and it sucks the fluid from the mc out of the bleeder screw. i always start from the furthest wheel and work forward. works 100% every time for 20 years. and last year i had a brake line around a inch and a half from exhaust manifold and had problems with fluid leak on mc lid. a guy told me am i boiling the fluid even tho they worked good. my last restore this year i ran all new ni-cop lines and away from exhaust and problem was solved.

[TheCougarine]

Sounds like you need to give the shop owner a call. I know if it was my shop I wouldn't put up with an employee deciding he didn't want to work.

[ubtripn]

Yeah, I think I will. I am going to buy a bleeder/vacuum. I can manually do it but I wanted all the fluid swapped.

[ubtripn]

I got my money back by the way but what a waste of time.

Thanks for the advice on the sequence, will do.

[54blackhornet]

Can one of you guys explain how to get the brake light off after you replace MC ?

[tommy3horse]

Stomp the brake peddle...hard!

Tom

[Myoldtruck]

Go to the auto supply house and buy 4 self bleeders and replace all the old ones. They have check valves in them for fluid to flow one way when opened. I installed these over the summer to be able to bleed by myself. Get a 2ft. length of silicone hose to fit over the bleeder end and into a bottle and bleed away.

[ubtripn]

I always wondered if those existed.

[RichardJ]

>>He says one of your lines touches a header. I said they are hard lines and this has never presented an issue before <<

If the brake lines are touching the header, the fluid will boil inside the lines and you will loose the brakes in that circuit. (front or rear).

Sorry, but that makes you the idiot. Why he didn't bend the line out of the way or notify you that the lines needed bent or repositioned before the brakes could be bleed is the question.

If they bled the brakes and allowed you to drive away, they would be liable for any accident you got into.
Knowing the lines were routed/ installed incorrectly and refusing to bleed the brakes was the smart call.

[donandal]

I am trying to understand this:
one of your hard lines touches a header... is that an
engine exhaust header you are referring to?

I would think you would not want that to come anywhere
close to touching, since the engine would move around slightly
on the engine mounts and could eventually wear a hole in
the line, not to mention getting too hot.

just curious

[TrkEnvy]

Originally Posted by RichardJ

>>He says one of your lines touches a header. I said they are hard lines and this has never presented an issue before <<

If the brake lines are touching the header, the fluid will boil inside the lines and you will loose the brakes in that circuit. (front or rear).

Sorry, but that makes you the idiot. Why he didn't bend the line out of the way or notify you that the lines needed bent or repositioned before the brakes could be bleed is the question.

If they bled the brakes and allowed you to drive away, they would be liable for any accident you got into.
Knowing the lines were routed/ installed incorrectly and refusing to bleed the brakes was the smart call.

I dunno if it makes him an idiot.. But i do agree with the liability issue of bleeding a truck that could potentially boil the fluid and cause an accident. However the shop should have called and told him that hours before his scheduled appointment. Bad customer service if I've ever seen it. I wouldn't use this shop ever again.

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by TrkEnvy

I dunno if it makes him an idiot.. But i do agree with the liability issue of bleeding a truck that could potentially boil the fluid and cause an accident. However the shop should have called and told him that hours before his scheduled appointment. Bad customer service if I've ever seen it. I wouldn't use this shop ever again.

I doubt the shop knew the brake lines touched. What happened is the kid bled the brakes, got paid for it. The advisor then says "hey remember that pos you worked on the other day, well you ****ed up and its coming back cause the brakes arent bled correctly" Then the kid who is now playing pokemon go (BTW im 42 and play that so dont hate, my kids love it) looks at the car and then notices the lines touching the header and then is like LOOKIE HERE it wasnt my fault boss, i need you to pay me again or im not doing it, its his fault, im not rebleeding them for free.. The advisor then has the need to cover his ass now that he cant get the tech to take 4 minutes and move the line and rebleed the brakes without paying him again. In a shop like firestone they cant give out free hours without a reason. He then comes up with the "sorry we can touch it" line.
THe good news is he refunded your money. Btw, i wouldnt have. I would of fixed your line, or just said fix it and come back, but he is run by a corporation and has to follow rules.....
Moral of the story? ? DONT LET your damn lines touch anything, especially 700 degree headers. OH, and stay away from firestone.

[lyrikz]

Originally Posted by RichardJ

>>He says one of your lines touches a header. I said they are hard lines and this has never presented an issue before <<

If the brake lines are touching the header, the fluid will boil inside the lines and you will loose the brakes in that circuit. (front or rear).

Sorry, but that makes you the idiot. Why he didn't bend the line out of the way or notify you that the lines needed bent or repositioned before the brakes could be bleed is the question.

If they bled the brakes and allowed you to drive away, they would be liable for any accident you got into.
Knowing the lines were routed/ installed incorrectly and refusing to bleed the brakes was the smart call.

Not true. They arent required on your heavily modified vehicle to inform you of issues you installed. If they missed the line touching the header that isnt their fault. They arent looking for improperly installed components. They are bleeding the brakes... Chances are, they did bleed them right and he boiled the fluid. I do run an automotive repair shop btw. lol.

I do agree on the line touching the header, if the PO knew about that and drove that way, we know were the blame lies.

[In The Ten Ring]

What's the name of this shop? I need to avoid it!

*When I see anyone with their faces glued to a phone I get this feeling of "ugh."

[ubtripn]

They bled them once the day before and told me to bend them away which I did. I returned because after their work I nearly piled it up. I tried to tell the nice kid at the counter but he would not convey it to the one on his phone. Also, I'm sorry but no, that amount of small amount of the edge of a surface touching the header in a very small spot never boiled it before so why would it suddenly be the cause of a problem now. (Not saying it should touch but let's stay within the bounds of physics) Also, I never called anybody an idiot RichardJ. Though I wanted to.

Regarding the dist box - from what the experts have all said (Thank you for this forum) in this case it is rather self-setting, you only really have a problem if the light is on when done bleeding. It isolates a bad, leaking circuit but they are seperate anyway so really it just warns you of an issue. It distributes pressure equally while a prop valves proportions the amount of pressure front and back and has a reset button of some type.

[71CHEVYSHORTBED402]

Mechanics are off sometimes, more so today. Really, many service options are disappearing due to cheap Asian crap.

Yesterday I visited a shop for my 72. It needs a hard line to the carb and I was hoping for a manual choke install on the Rochester. I've never done either, and my 71 is priority at the moment. The 72 has some brake issues as well, we're guessing proportioning valve and MC. Anyway, he managed to talk me out of the choke, because some of the linkage is gone, and despite as long as he's been in business, he doesn't have the pieces and really doesn't like Rochesters anway........He also said a hard line would take "hours to do".....Ridiculous if you ask me, but that's how things are today. At any rate, he talked me into an Edlebrock carb., fuel plumbing kit.......Not exactly thrilled, but the engine needs to run for the winter and Edlebrock seems to have a good rep.. That would never fly on my 71, but the 72 is a driver and repro. is good enough.

I can't even get a good mechanic over here at shop rate. At the end of the day, if you want something done right there's a good chance you'll need to do it.........

[CastIron]

Being an auto tech for the last 20+ years, I can see this from both sides. I am really leery about finishing a job that somebody else started. (you said you installed the m/c) It's too easy to get burned on something like this. I have had service writers ask the customer sign waivers (to limit our liability) when I advise the customer that the car may not be safe to drive if they don't fix certain problems. Having a brake line touching exhaust wouldn't be safe, in my opinion. The other thing I notice is that you said you nearly piled it up after they worked on it. It's possible that the brakes weren't bled properly, but that could also be caused by a lot of other things. So if there isn't any air in the system they shouldn't have to diagnose it without getting paid.
But I can understand your point of view as well. You want the job done and have already paid for it once. They should have at least looked to make sure they did bleed the brakes correctly.

[special-K]

I'd think bleeding them and sending him down the road would leave them less liable than sending him down the road thinking his brakes are completely and properly bled because he paid to have that done and wasn't told otherwise. Sounds like the tech is the idiot who plays games on his phone rather than do the job he is paid to do. What makes them liable is not advising the customer of a potentially dangerous situation they observed as professionals.

[Grumpy old man]

Today they are not called mechanics , they are parts replacement techs . The computer does all the diagnosis for them . A true mechanic would never let you drive away with a brake issue , EVER. This is just one more reason I wouldn't let one wash my trucks let alone put a wrench to them . As far as a brake line touching a header ? Big no no , bend it out of the way or replace it . Reading some of the comments over who would be liable if you wrecked , well fix it your self and you'll know it's done right the first time .

[pdawg]

Hey ubtripn. I would double check that bleeding sequence as I have always been told ( & did ) to bleed the farthest wheel from the master cylinder first, and work your way towards it. I've checked a couple of online videos to confirm it before I sent this & they concur with farthest wheel first. BTW - I had the same issue when I put 1 3/4 headers on my truck. The drivers side contacted the brake line so I had to bend it off of the header. Hot brake fluid is not good!

[ubtripn]

I agree, the lines shouldn't touch the headers and aren't now. I guess I was annoyed because they did a "Full fluid exchange/bleed) and it was braking worse when I left than when I arrived. I only took it in to begin with because I didn't want to go through the whole down/up things a thousand times but I have to. They scheduled the appointment to take a follow-up look, I arrived early in the am when still dark, no work going on inside the shop whatsoever, just a tech chasing pokemans or whatever. They should have called me BUT the manager called back to apologize and said all in all it is both our faults for not communicating. I said I tried every communication vector possible. He said any tech can refuse service because of a precedent where someone was killed after work being done. I said they had already started the service. He then said - what can I do? I replied - pay me for the lost time and gas and I'll call it square, you can guess the response. =)

[ubtripn]

Will do, thank you!

I think I am heading for a new booster. When I installed the mc it stopped perfect but made a loud whistling noise like a balloon being stretched open but far louder when brake was pressed. I took off the MC, cleaned up the dish area it mounts to then lubed it and it went away but then the power boosting became intermittent. Now its gone. (I was hoping air in the lines was the culprit and that I needed a full fluid swap with a vacuum to fix it.) The strange thing is I KNOW the diaphragm is inflating and vacuum is good plus it passes the test of holding the brake pedal down then shutting off the engine and it drops abut an inch. It is really strange. When driving it has a couple inches of travel but then is as hard as a rock. I can still stop her but it takes muscle. That is why I was thinking one circuit might be isolated. I just don't have the money to throw at it if the booster is good.

If I do replace the booster this weekend it will be with a booster/c combo. Should I take the switch out of the distribution box to ensure the little cylinder is centered?

This is going to sound a bit dumb but my 4 drums do better on snow than my discs did on my other truck, probably due to the slower action but I believe if you rebuild each brake, use new shoes, adjust properly and have new slave cylinders the truck brakes pretty darn well. Well enough for me anyway =) But I have to get back to good which is what I am trying to do now. You all know so much that it saves me money and I am VERY grateful.